Upping the Boost on my VF SC'd 540. Testing the Failure Limits of the Stock M62?

[computiNATEor]

It’s sooo much easier to drop the subframe and engine together (if you can).

[tptrsn]

Glad to hear about the progress Chris! I do still have that piston and rod with your name on them.

BTW, I'm slapping together a 6L for the LRS. Something like that would go real nicely in your car.

[philly98540]

Glad to hear about the progress Chris! I do still have that piston and rod with your name on them.

BTW, I'm slapping together a 6L for the LRS. Something like that would go real nicely in your car.

Thanks Thad! Making my way slowly but surely on this big heap! LS is cheating lol. Can’t wait to see the 6L smoking tires. Almost too much power.

[philly98540]

It’s sooo much easier to drop the subframe and engine together (if you can).

Agreed!! Wish I had a larger (deeper) garage (TWSS). Right now I have the back of the car right against the garage door, and I just had enough room for the hoist. Like inches to spare.

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Engine Pull.jpg

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I could load the pic via Edge. WTF.

[JimLev]

Nice progress. Haven't heard anything about issues posting pics.
Rip that sucker apart.
That drivers side header was not fun to get off or back on. After I got the nuts loose enough I used a 1/4" drive ratchet with whatever it took to get to the nuts. Some from the top and the others from under the car.

Thad, don't listen to Philly, no such thing as cheating.
A 6.0 with your turbo setup should make some killa HP and torque numbers!

[computiNATEor]

Nice progress. Haven't heard anything about issues posting pics.
Rip that sucker apart.
That drivers side header was not fun to get off or back on. After I got the nuts loose enough I used a 1/4" drive ratchet with whatever it took to get to the nuts. Some from the top and the others from under the car.

Thad, don't listen to Philly, no such thing as cheating.
A 6.0 with your turbo setup should make some killa HP and torque numbers!

So I'm gonna have a good time installing the Supersprint headers, got it, haha. Best to drop the subframe for that?

[JimLev]

So I'm gonna have a good time installing the Supersprint headers, got it, haha. Best to drop the subframe for that?

Nate, I had my subframe dropped about 6" and the engine jacked up, which helped. Still was a PITA.......it was worth the effort.
Before you connect the collectors start the engine up and drive it around the hood.

[tptrsn]

Thad, don't listen to Philly, no such thing as cheating.
A 6.0 with your turbo setup should make some killa HP and torque numbers!

If it is cheating, it's one kind of cheating that is definitely worth it! Lol

And I agree, adding 25% engine displacement should make things significantly more rowdy. Looking forward to trying it out!

[geargrinder]

Great to see progress Chris! Re: the header PITA, that was one of the things that Jed wanted to 'fix' with the Jedders apparently - making mount/remove apparently a joy.
Of course you pay for the privelege!

And don't listen to these LS heretics. But lets put that thing on a proper Emtron standalone and give you some real control over that puppy... we'll sort you out. (only half joking).

In all seriousness - if someone wanted to really do an M62 to the next level, some car should probably be rigged up with per cylinder EGTs, try to see what is going on.
I just looked back at Wendell's motor-destruction stories and looks like he killed 5/7/8 in one motor, and then 8 again, so there seems to be something about bank 2 that maybe needs get attention when tuning.
I know his tuning capacity was somewhat rudimentary so there's decent chance on a 'proper' ECU you could keep things from burning down especially if you have the data required.

That's not to replace at all Thads long held theories on rings which I think are probably on target... but with good measurements and careful per-cylinder tuning control you might help mitigate those issues and stay below the piston meltdown limits.

[95naSTA]

Agreed!! Wish I had a larger (deeper) garage (TWSS). Right now I have the back of the car right against the garage door, and I just had enough room for the hoist. Like inches to spare.

To own a garage that deep is still awesome. I've had to pull engines several times out in the street in Philly. My current garage is maybe 2 feet longer than any of my cars but still good for being close to center city.

Good luck with leaning harder on the M62.

[516SC]

In all seriousness - if someone wanted to really do an M62 to the next level, some car should probably be rigged up with per cylinder EGTs, try to see what is going on.
I just looked back at Wendell's motor-destruction stories and looks like he killed 5/7/8 in one motor, and then 8 again, so there seems to be something about bank 2 that maybe needs get attention when tuning.
I know his tuning capacity was somewhat rudimentary so there's decent chance on a 'proper' ECU you could keep things from burning down especially if you have the data required.

Bank 2 liquid coolant canal needs some modify under valley pan. I broke several engines before modifying that canal.
What is that Wendell's motor-destruction stories?

[JimLev]

Thad, whose this guy dissing our beloved LS engines?
More cubes in a smaller package, no guide problems, and a butt load more HP & torque.
Hi GG.

[tptrsn]

But lets put that thing on a proper Emtron standalone and give you some real control over that puppy... we'll sort you out. (only half joking).

In all seriousness - if someone wanted to really do an M62 to the next level, some car should probably be rigged up with per cylinder EGTs, try to see what is going on.
I just looked back at Wendell's motor-destruction stories and looks like he killed 5/7/8 in one motor, and then 8 again, so there seems to be something about bank 2 that maybe needs get attention when tuning.
I know his tuning capacity was somewhat rudimentary so there's decent chance on a 'proper' ECU you could keep things from burning down especially if you have the data required.

I would certainly love to see someone do this! After what my old M62 has endured, and continues to soak up, my respect for the robustness of decently tuned M62 is quite high.

Prior to going to a stand alone -- during the time I was trying to work things out with the DME M52 on the turbo setup -- I saw numerous instances of the DME oddly adding timing and pulling fuel IN BOOST. It painted a picture in my head of why so many guys who try to turbo M62s blow them up. It's like the DME wants to kill the engine...

Centrifugal S/Cs are certainly easier for the DME to manage, since the linear boost doesn't come in all at once and bang into the calculated load/torque limit. But still a proper engine control system and badass data gathering would be great. If only we could know exactly what type of incident it was that abused Chris' piston. An injector not keeping up with the rest? Wet flow from the water/methanol system not dousing that cylinder quite as well? Excess cylinder wall temp compared to the rest of them as 516SC indicates? Something else entirely? Sure would be nice to know.

Being hybrid old-school/modern like I am, my normal data gathering is reading my plugs obsessively, and then adjusting the tune in my engine control. From so doing, I never really saw any big cylinder to cylinder differences on my setup. And interestingly, I have seen some data recently that indicates boost actually diminishes distribution differences, as opposed to the opposite as I had always imagined.

I guess that really makes sense, since the more pressure you pack into a plenum, the more uniformly the air charge is going to jam past an intake valve, versus relying on scavenging, etc., to keep the uniformity good...

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Thad, whose this guy dissing our beloved LS engines?
More cubes in a smaller package, no guide problems, and a but load more HP & torque.
Hi GG.

Lol, some jealous guy!

[philly98540]

Great to see progress Chris! Re: the header PITA, that was one of the things that Jed wanted to 'fix' with the Jedders apparently - making mount/remove apparently a joy.
Of course you pay for the privelege!

And don't listen to these LS heretics. But lets put that thing on a proper Emtron standalone and give you some real control over that puppy... we'll sort you out. (only half joking).

In all seriousness - if someone wanted to really do an M62 to the next level, some car should probably be rigged up with per cylinder EGTs, try to see what is going on.
I just looked back at Wendell's motor-destruction stories and looks like he killed 5/7/8 in one motor, and then 8 again, so there seems to be something about bank 2 that maybe needs get attention when tuning.
I know his tuning capacity was somewhat rudimentary so there's decent chance on a 'proper' ECU you could keep things from burning down especially if you have the data required.

That's not to replace at all Thads long held theories on rings which I think are probably on target... but with good measurements and careful per-cylinder tuning control you might help mitigate those issues and stay below the piston meltdown limits.

Damn the ghost is back! Miss your ass around here. Yeah, lets see what this piston tells us when I get it popped out. I see no evidence of hot running in that cylinder by looking at the plugs. I'm thinking a ring land just busted out, but just speculation at this point. I'd love to do a standalone on this at some point. Maybe when OBD2 is not needed anymore due to age re state inspection. I know the tune is decent and fat enough when peak torque hits, but yeah, there is some space for improvement. There is some cold startup table that is not perfect that I can't find in Winolz, that give a lean out on cold days here and there, but its just a minor quibble. Mostly runs great. Per cylinder EGT would be a dream. Hope you are getting your biz moving and making a way for yourself in that space. Tough industry.

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Bank 2 liquid coolant canal needs some modify under valley pan. I broke several engines before modifying that canal.
What is that Wendell's motor-destruction stories?

I remember seeing a post about this! Interesting. Do you have a link to a thread with details on this and how to grind/mod the passage?

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I would certainly love to see someone do this! After what my old M62 has endured, and continues to soak up, my respect for the robustness of decently tuned M62 is quite high.

Prior to going to a stand alone -- during the time I was trying to work things out with the DME M52 on the turbo setup -- I saw numerous instances of the DME oddly adding timing and pulling fuel IN BOOST. It painted a picture in my head of why so many guys who try to turbo M62s blow them up. It's like the DME wants to kill the engine...

Centrifugal S/Cs are certainly easier for the DME to manage, since the linear boost doesn't come in all at once and bang into the calculated load/torque limit. But still a proper engine control system and badass data gathering would be great. If only we could know exactly what type of incident it was that abused Chris' piston. An injector not keeping up with the rest? Wet flow from the water/methanol system not dousing that cylinder quite as well? Excess cylinder wall temp compared to the rest of them as 516SC indicates? Something else entirely? Sure would be nice to know.

Being hybrid old-school/modern like I am, my normal data gathering is reading my plugs obsessively, and then adjusting the tune in my engine control. From so doing, I never really saw any big cylinder to cylinder differences on my setup. And interestingly, I have seen some data recently that indicates boost actually diminishes distribution differences, as opposed to the opposite as I had always imagined.

I guess that really makes sense, since the more pressure you pack into a plenum, the more uniformly the air charge is going to jam past an intake valve, versus relying on scavenging, etc., to keep the uniformity good...

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Lol, some jealous guy!

Glad your old M62 is still running strong. That was an awesome project on your part! Great work on that custom tune is why it still in one piece. Nice!

I will likely send my injectors out for a balance in the hopes the number 7 was actually lean and the cause of all this. If they all balance fine, maybe it was the meth or coolant balance, or who knows. Maybe it was just fatigue an abuse on the pistons. Im over 180K on this original block and guts, so maybe it was just time. Lets see what the inside show.

[tptrsn]

Maybe it was just fatigue an abuse on the pistons. Im over 180K on this original block and guts, so maybe it was just time. Lets see what the inside show.

With the power you've been making and using on a daily basis in that car, I don't feel like that engine owes you anything at this point. Extremely impressive!!

[geargrinder]

With the power you've been making and using on a daily basis in that car, I don't feel like that engine owes you anything at this point. Extremely impressive!!

+4398

[1999 540i m]

I remember seeing a post about this! Interesting. Do you have a link to a thread with details on this and how to grind/mod the passage?

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...o-Build/page39 post 965

[computiNATEor]

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...o-Build/page39 post 965

You can click on the post number to link directly to a specific post.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...6#post29913986

[516SC]

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...6#post29913986

Yes there is good pictures about passage, some engines need minor modifying on waterpumps side too.


This was last summer, stock M62b44, next summer coming 255/250 cams.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOhHzghf-hY

[angeleye540i]

Nice progress. Haven't heard anything about issues posting pics.
Rip that sucker apart.
That drivers side header was not fun to get off or back on. After I got the nuts loose enough I used a 1/4" drive ratchet with whatever it took to get to the nuts. Some from the top and the others from under the car.

Thad, don't listen to Philly, no such thing as cheating.
A 6.0 with your turbo setup should make some killa HP and torque numbers!

Lol me and him know the suffering these gd DS headers can cause... we both have 4 washers under our drivers side mounts to keep from hitting the steering shaft which I’ve read to be quite common with SS headers... it almost manifests as a wheel bearing issue but it’s the header pipe hitting the shaft, right at the worst part of it - the break away


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[angeleye540i]

Great to see progress Chris! Re: the header PITA, that was one of the things that Jed wanted to 'fix' with the Jedders apparently - making mount/remove apparently a joy.
Of course you pay for the privelege!

And don't listen to these LS heretics. But lets put that thing on a proper Emtron standalone and give you some real control over that puppy... we'll sort you out. (only half joking).

In all seriousness - if someone wanted to really do an M62 to the next level, some car should probably be rigged up with per cylinder EGTs, try to see what is going on.
I just looked back at Wendell's motor-destruction stories and looks like he killed 5/7/8 in one motor, and then 8 again, so there seems to be something about bank 2 that maybe needs get attention when tuning.
I know his tuning capacity was somewhat rudimentary so there's decent chance on a 'proper' ECU you could keep things from burning down especially if you have the data required.

That's not to replace at all Thads long held theories on rings which I think are probably on target... but with good measurements and careful per-cylinder tuning control you might help mitigate those issues and stay below the piston meltdown limits.

I smell what youre stepping in grinder and I love it


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[angeleye540i]

Thad, whose this guy dissing our beloved LS engines?
More cubes in a smaller package, no guide problems, and a butt load more HP & torque.
Hi GG.

Cuz he’s got a butt load of something else - just some boomer with a stick shift fetish


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[angeleye540i]

+4398

Go fund me?


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[angeleye540i]

[philly98540]

Yes there is good pictures about passage, some engines need minor modifying on waterpumps side too.


This was last summer, stock M62b44, next summer coming 255/250 cams.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOhHzghf-hY

What flywheel and clutch you have on that? Revs like a motorcycle. Zing Zing

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https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...o-Build/page39 post 965

Thanks! I figured Thad had to be involved. I think I will do this grinding and porting on that coolant passage. I do wonder why BMW had them unequal from the factory? Looks like they were trying to balance the flows or something.

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+4398

come on now, this sucker is just getting broken in!