E39 M5 Turbo LS getting started questions/I will try to keep updates on my build.

[RVAE34]

I did the same thing with my turbo M52 E34. I actually sold it only a week or two after I rode in and drove Clay's SL powered E36 the first time. I had owned the E34 for about 7.5 years. It was featured in Bimmer magazine a year after I sold it too. I tend to get bored when they are finished. But I have so much in my touring that there would be no reason for me to sell.

[rao]

So the A/C is trigger is not a 12 volt signal its off of the Can BUS line? Is that car 2 channel?

I am going to try and get up over 8-900WHP with this build though so I don't think I want to deal with the BMW shafts. The second phase of the car will probably be a custom 9" center with reinforced sub frame and big axles so I can drag race the car on a sticky tire. That center would be longer so I can just have the shaft cut and re balanced so I figure I might as well start with a stout one now.

The reason I want the ProEFI is because I live right behind Sound Performance and I am totally sold on the Pro EFI 128. The ECU has a built in speed sensitive boost controller, adaptive flex fuel tuning that is far beyond what the GM ECU is capable of, customization traction control, change on the fly power level settings, and many options for outputs for boost referenced cutouts aux fuel pumps etc...It is a hell of a system.

I am going to run a nice in-tank pump with a big secondary magnafuel pump that kicks on with boost and run the car on e85 most the time. I want to be able to cruise around with like 6xxwhp and then turn it up for racing by just pressing a button. I fell in love with half mile events and want to be able to drive the car to the mohave mile and things like that reliably.

Sounds like you have it all figured out.

Good luck; I hope to see this car on the road very soon.

[get dustd]

Ah, that is rough. Yea I love that wagon though. How often do you drive that thing? How long have you had it done? I can't remember the thread, what did you end up doing for the front sub-frame and also the suspension?


I like the way the front end of the e34 looks but the interior and the rest of the e39 really gets me. I will sell the car and someone will be very very happy with it I hope. If I miss it maybe I will pick up another one and throw a junkyard 5.3 in it as a beater. I have too much money into mine to be leaving it parked around everywhere and next winter I would have to leave it outside.

Side note: Does anyone have the re programming software on here that I could just pay to do my cluster?

[RVAE34]

When it's together, I try to drive it as often as I can. Usually at least once or twice a week to work. It's been done for about 3 years now but I have had some issues along the way. The motor is on it's second re-build since I have owned it. First time was incorrect valve seals and second was a broken LS7 lifter. Which I read enough threads about to stay away from them. Most don't have problems but the ones that do seem to always break in the same spot. Something must have gotten caught in between the roller and the casing to brake the side out. Or the needle bearings locked up. Front subframe is stock alum I6. Suspension is Fortune Auto. They used my car to prototype their touring kit but have since discontinued the E39 because of some issues with the rear bottoming out. I am working towards solving the rear issues and am close. Seems the E39 wants a high rear spring rate.

[get dustd]

Sounds like you have it all figured out.

Good luck; I hope to see this car on the road very soon.

Well we know it won't be very soon and if that ECU can't control the A/C compressor I am not sure what I am going to do. I will stop by and talk to them tomorrow. They have put those in a bunch of e46's so hopefully they will tell me comforting things.

- - - Updated - - -

When it's together, I try to drive it as often as I can. Usually at least once or twice a week to work. It's been done for about 3 years now but I have had some issues along the way. The motor is on it's second re-build since I have owned it. First time was incorrect valve seals and second was a broken LS7 lifter. Which I read enough threads about to stay away from them. Most don't have problems but the ones that do seem to always break in the same spot. Something must have gotten caught in between the roller and the casing to brake the side out. Or the needle bearings locked up. Front subframe is stock alum I6. Suspension is Fortune Auto. They used my car to prototype their touring kit but have since discontinued the E39 because of some issues with the rear bottoming out. I am working towards solving the rear issues and am close. Seems the E39 wants a high rear spring rate.

Oh I thought that was a 540iT. I would love to hear others thoughts on the box to rack switch. I didn't know the ls7 lifters had issues. I will have to tell my buddy with his build. He told me CTS-V lifters are great but my friend that is machining my block and specing my cam is trying to push me out of my life savings to go with howards.

Turner was rock solid with advise for my e34 so I called them for the M5. It has BC coil overs and I do not appreciate the ride quality right now. Even though they sell them, they pushed me away from the Koni's and gave me the bilstein direct number and they said they could custom valve me struts to fit my application. (not sure how much it will be yet) I have not looked into springs yet.

[get dustd]

The pro efi can be triggered by the digital signal from the factory ac module. It also has pressure inputs and outputs to cut it at throttle and control its operation. It can also use the factory throttle by wire system and adapt it to the gm throttle body. It also has fail safe limp modes if i loose fuel pressure or anything else you would worry about. It reads the factory wheel sensors for tcs and cuts timing instead of throttle for instant and pricise results. All that plus on the fly flex fuel adjustments. Pro efi just lowered the price 1000$.

[get dustd]

I am a teacher so I am gearing up for some major progress as summer is right around the corner. I sold the engine and trans with the subframe minus the brakes and the new owner is picking it up tomorrow. I cleaned and installed the 6 cylinder front end. My e34 had a killer day at my last half mile event with it but I got some awesome footage of me wrecking a lot of fast cars including a GTR. The car is sold to my friend so when I get sellers remorse I can try to get it back. The m5 brakes and hubs seem to fit the 6 cylinder knuckles just fine so no harm no foul. I purchased a TR6060 out of a challenger and I was going to convert the input shaft and front cover to make it work with the LS1. Jeremy at Tick talked me into doing the tail section as will so I can run the much stronger slip yoke setup. After pricing it all out for 300 bucks more I can get a new one with the close ratios which would work better for what I am trying to do. So I am ordering my close ratio trans, steel bell, and carbon blocker rings with bronze for pads tomorrow. I have the block and heads and will order that autocraft oil pan so I can make my mounts and order the drive shaft before I have to take the car off the lift and work in a garage on stands. That is phase one. Phase two is finishing building the engine and buying all the turbo parts and accessories. Phase 3 will be wiring and fuel.


Something disturbing I found when I got the car in the air though, this 1600 Dinan cat back melted through whatever that sump in the trunk is! There is just a mess of damaged wires and melted crap. What is all that wiring for!? What the hell Dinan!?

[get dustd]

Things are moving kind of slow with the engine build but I have accumulated quite a few parts so I thought I would update. I have the close ratio T-56 magnum from Tick and a steel bell for the LS now. I ordered carbon blocker rings and bronze fork pads I have to install and I have an exa mini pump I am going to kick on with boost refrence to spray the front of the cluster. I want to wait to crack this open for when the motor is done so I can measure run-out on the aftermarket bell using the trans front cover for more accuracy.






I went with Howards billet I beams and at 800 bucks or so I am really impressed with the quality. They are .8 grams from lightest to heaviest and the I beam is a superior design but usually out of my price range. SRP 14.7CC dished pistons put my compression ratio with the LSA heads right at 10.3:1. Using a stock crank out of a low mile 5.3 I picked up for next to nothing. Using the bare alum. block for mock up.





Found an untouched factory 6.0 block on CL. The mains measured perfect but the bores were only roughed out. I went .010 over and it is going to be decked tomorrow and ready to file rings. The deck was significantly higher on one bank but the finish was nice.




I also got my pro EFI and 120lb injectors with all my sensors and everything from sound performance. They uploaded a base map for me so I can start the car when I am ready. I also found a guy named Dr. Tweaked who is going to build me a harness to work with the pro EFI and all the unique stuff that goes along with it.





My turbo should be here soon but I will post up again when the motor is done and I start fabbing mounts and building the trans etc. I consider the end of phase one to be when I get the motor and trans mounts fabbed up with a driveshaft installed. Phase two will be all the plumbing and fab work for the turbo and fuel and then phase three is the wiring portion. I am hoping to get this thing done sometime over winter so it is running next season. I haven't made huge progress yet but at least things are moving forward. I will post up again when things get more interesting.

[fallguy]

Nice collection of parts, any deals out there for a T56 magnum? everywhere seems to list it for the same

[nsogiba]

Nice, keep the progress coming.

[get dustd]

Tick hooked it up because I ordered my clutch and hydraulics from them too. They basically just matched Summits price which is actually beating the price because they charge a large handling fee even though shipping is free. I ended up spending over 5k with them though so maybe that was just because of that. Become a team tick member if you are going to buy a lot from them. It is like 50 bucks and gets you wholesale pricing.

One picture I forgot to upload was the Autokraft pan. Wow does it fit that 6 cyl subframe nice but when I set it on the block pan rails it rocks front to back .100"! The kicker is Autokraft says their tolerance is an 1/8 inch and that this is fine. Not what I would expect from a 425$ oil pan but those wonderful GM gaskets save the day I guess. If this thing was on an old school gasket there would be no way I would let that fly. Fingers crossed.

Another note: This Alum. 5.3 block is so light I can easily lift by myself. If anyone wants to buy it when I am done It is great for mocking up and making mounts, just pm me.

[unnatrl]

Tick hooked it up because I ordered my clutch and hydraulics from them too. They basically just matched Summits price which is actually beating the price because they charge a large handling fee even though shipping is free. I ended up spending over 5k with them though so maybe that was just because of that. Become a team tick member if you are going to buy a lot from them. It is like 50 bucks and gets you wholesale pricing. One picture I forgot to upload was the Autokraft pan. Wow does it fit that 6 cyl subframe nice but when I set it on the block pan rails it rocks front to back .100"! The kicker is Autokraft says their tolerance is an 1/8 inch and that this is fine. Not what I would expect from a 425$ oil pan but those wonderful GM gaskets save the day I guess. If this thing was on an old school gasket there would be no way I would let that fly. Fingers crossed. Another note: This Alum. 5.3 block is so light I can easily lift by myself. If anyone wants to buy it when I am done It is great for mocking up and making mounts, just pm me.

My Autokraft pan was square, no warp to it. It seals up perfectly. I doubt you will have an issue. If it was aluminum, that would be a whole different story!

[RVAE34]

Mine too

[get dustd]

They wouldn't return mine for that reason since it passed pressure testing. I like things in that price range to be pretty much perfect but what are you going to do. I just hope if it does have issues when I do finally get this thing running they help me out.

[get dustd]

Real quick update with awful pictures:

I was in machine shop jail for awhile there and got bored and did the trans. It was tough cracking open a fresh magnum as a first timer. It was a little rough coming apart because it was brand new and all the splines were not beat up yet. This is what tick recommended off of how they build them: Second is already a carbon blocker ring setup so leave that. I did first 3-4 (leave the thicker inner ring for 3rd and 4th) and then a hybrid ring for 5th. Even though I have a close ratio trans I do not expect to be banging into 6th much so I left that. Bronze fork pads on all forks (you have to file some of the forks to get the rings to spin freely). 5th is hard to pull off if the trans is new. get a very nice 16" reach 2 jaw puller and go to town. Then when you get the main shaft off you press off behind first the bearing and 6th gear together with a half inch plate. I had to press off sychro centers for 1-2 and 3-4 too and that was a bit tricky. I recommend buying a snap ring kit as well. It's 20 bucks and good assurance. I welded a AN to pipe thread fitting closed on the pipe thread end and made a nozzle for a really nice flat fluid sprayer for the input bearing and 4th gear. Tick does 3rd too but I know I will be fine with that super wide sprayer. I have an exa mini pump that is going to be triggered off the pro efi during boost to spray. Add a filter for pump life. I still have to dial in my steel bell but after that I am good.



The short block went together nice but I forgot to take a picture when it was done. The custom cam I ordered came in the wrong core so they are sending me a new one. I got specs from Nick G from ls1 tech and ticks specs and changed them a bit from there. Hopefully will be finishing the long block this weekend. The compression ratio is ending up around 9.5 static and I wish I would have went a bit higher. Other than that I am really happy with the engine build. 13ft lbs to spin the rotating assembly is a very good thing .



After selling the motor and harness with the DME this is all I have left in that box. Its intimidating but I started probing around and reading that thread from 2013 on the wiring and I am hoping it will not be too bad. Much more to come on this after I get the motor in the car.



Now one question...does this seem right to you guys? I got a Dr. rack reman rack and I do not remember how far the splines went on from the steering shaft and they did not give me that plastic piece the stock rack had so it does not seem right to me. There are barely any splines making contact here. It really scares me but to me the grove in the rack input shaft is obviously where the bolt sits. I bought the squared off style of lower shaft universal joint off ebay and that does not fit at all. Some insight here would be great.



I also did new heavy duty bushing control arms and new tie rods along with an eibach sway bar kit front and rear. More to come soon now that I have time for this.

[get dustd]

I swear I am rotating these pictures before I upload them...I don't know whats going on with that.

First is the completed empty canvas. You can really see how much spline is left on the steering input here too. I know there is not a lot of force on it but it still scares me. It is hard to tell in other pictures too because everyone else has the plastic piece covering them. Maybe I will post up in the regular e39 section.



So I went with a standard crank from a 5.3 in really good shape. .0023" bearing clearance on mains and rods. Again Howards Billet I beam rods and SRP 14.4 dished pistons. .0045 piston to wall and .026" top ring gaps and .028" second. The piston pin clearance is .0013. 0 balanced. I am a little bummed the compression comes out so low but It is somewhere around 9.5:1 with how much the pistons pop up after decking to get the block straight. I went with stock main bolts too. They were only torqued down to check main clearance but what are everyone's thoughts on that? I was considering ARP but the line hone was perfect with the stock bolts and I knew the ARP's would move that.



My friend Mark at Empire Crankshafts near Ohare airport is helping me with the engine build and he recommended going pretty H.A.M. on the timing set since there are some known issues. The cloyes setup with a race single chain was almost $300 with the damper setup but hopefully it will be problem free. Race internaled melling standard volume oil pump. Mark spec'd me out a cammotion cam for quick spooling and low RPM power. If you are interested in seeing the specs I can post the cam card but it is kind of mild. Looking for 0 valve train issues. Ill sacrifice power for that.



The oil filter adapter that came with that 1/8" warped oil pan did not fit well. The bolts they supplied did not fit through the bolt holes they drilled and it is not a huge deal, just another annoyance from a 450$ oil pan.



Holley makes a really nice accessory drive I am going to try. $300 for AC brackets and PS and ALT and you can use any balancer spacing/WP config you want. Here is a link to a pic of the layout:
http://www.speednik.com/files/2013/11/IMG_4554GR.jpg
Unatrl went with electric power steering and is probably right about that, but I am going to try. Maybe I will have to do a low mount turbo or a thicker smaller radiator.
Next up cylinder head head assembly and installation. Stock valves and Brain T dual springs with Ti retainers. Hoping to have the trans and engine meet for the first time by the end of this month. Goal: mounts made, shifter done, and driveshaft ordered by the end of October.

[unnatrl]

If you are looking at using the R4 compressor like I did, the Holley bracket isn't the ideal setup. The compressor touched the abs module in my car. Keep up the good work!

[BigL350]

Cammotion knows their stuff with turbo V8 cams.
They spec'ed a hydraulic roller cam for my 383 sbc with a single Garrett GT42 many years ago and I have to say it was perfect. Idled great and made great power. I would be interested to see the specs if you don't mind posting them.

I swear I am rotating these pictures before I upload them...I don't know whats going on with that. First is the completed empty canvas. You can really see how much spline is left on the steering input here too. I know there is not a lot of force on it but it still scares me. It is hard to tell in other pictures too because everyone else has the plastic piece covering them. Maybe I will post up in the regular e39 section. So I went with a standard crank from a 5.3 in really good shape. .0023" bearing clearance on mains and rods. Again Howards Billet I beam rods and SRP 14.4 dished pistons. .0045 piston to wall and .026" top ring gaps and .028" second. The piston pin clearance is .0013. 0 balanced. I am a little bummed the compression comes out so low but It is somewhere around 9.5:1 with how much the pistons pop up after decking to get the block straight. I went with stock main bolts too. They were only torqued down to check main clearance but what are everyone's thoughts on that? I was considering ARP but the line hone was perfect with the stock bolts and I knew the ARP's would move that. My friend Mark at Empire Crankshafts near Ohare airport is helping me with the engine build and he recommended going pretty H.A.M. on the timing set since there are some known issues. The cloyes setup with a race single chain was almost $300 with the damper setup but hopefully it will be problem free. Race internaled melling standard volume oil pump. Mark spec'd me out a cammotion cam for quick spooling and low RPM power. If you are interested in seeing the specs I can post the cam card but it is kind of mild. Looking for 0 valve train issues. Ill sacrifice power for that. The oil filter adapter that came with that 1/8" warped oil pan did not fit well. The bolts they supplied did not fit through the bolt holes they drilled and it is not a huge deal, just another annoyance from a 450$ oil pan. Holley makes a really nice accessory drive I am going to try. $300 for AC brackets and PS and ALT and you can use any balancer spacing/WP config you want. Here is a link to a pic of the layout: http://www.speednik.com/files/2013/11/IMG_4554GR.jpg Unatrl went with electric power steering and is probably right about that, but I am going to try. Maybe I will have to do a low mount turbo or a thicker smaller radiator. Next up cylinder head head assembly and installation. Stock valves and Brain T dual springs with Ti retainers. Hoping to have the trans and engine meet for the first time by the end of this month. Goal: mounts made, shifter done, and driveshaft ordered by the end of October.

[get dustd]

If you are looking at using the R4 compressor like I did, the Holley bracket isn't the ideal setup. The compressor touched the abs module in my car. Keep up the good work!

I will try it with the other compressor then. I will buy the two kits separate (a/c and ps-altcombo) and see how the other compressor works out and if it does not I will return it and try those other aftermarket guys.

[Schitzo]

Now one question...does this seem right to you guys?

No. The rod is installed far too forward into the splined section in the pic you posted. As you mentioned, the non-splined (grooved) section is where the bolt goes. The torque those splines experience is primarily generated from the force you apply at the steering wheel under power assist; not much at all.

[get dustd]

The tip of the shaft is actually not splined as it looks in the pic for some reason. its just a smaller diameter with no splines. The bolt is in the radius style groove where it is supposed to be but it is just hard to believe there is like 3/8" of spline contact total. I know there is not much force on it but that does answer my question that it is the right setup. I thought maybe I had the wrong U joint being from a V8 car and mating to a rack from an i6 car. I forgot to snap a pic of the cam card last night. I will try to remember next time.

[get dustd]

And it begins:

I missed pictures of the head assembly and I keep forgetting to snap one of the cam card. It went smoothly and is nothing special anyways. Ti retainers and Brian T dual springs with nice retainers was the extent of it. I also did the comp cams trunion bearing upgrade to the rockers. Very easy upgrade, not sure if it was totally necessary but 100 bucks is not too bad for having all new valve train. Like I said, the guys I got the trans and clutch from talked me into the centerforce DYAD. He even said he gets a small bonus as a perk for selling monsters and still will not recommend a monster twin disc. He said McLeod is nice but the center floater disc is thin and can warp in race situations and cause engagement issues. The centerforce has a cool center drive pin design to join the second disc to the first and anti chatter pins to help combat that classic twin chatter. It went together really nice and even included all options of pilot bearings and arp hardware for everything. It even comes with nice o ringed plugs for hydraulic lines for disassembly.



I dialed in the bell with just the bell and flywheel before the clutch install and got .009" total runout so I left the stock pins. After I installed the clutch I checked it again and it was .011" but I am not going to split hairs over .001". All set.






I was bummed to find out that magnum is not even close to the shifter hole. Its about 7.5" away. I saw an adapter Sikky makes that gets it 5.5" back and I can make a small adapter from that for the last 2" but I think I can make a linkage style setup myself with a heim joint as a lower pivot for the handle. Or I can just bolt a long bar to it but that seems to me like it would make the throw really long. Also with the motor sitting really low the bell hits the sway bar (with the wheels fully extended so ride height should make that better but still :/) and that is with the stock shifter setup out of the trans. There is no way it would fit like it is sitting and that sucks because the driveline angle visually looks pretty good in the tunnel. Maybe adapting a magnum XL would have been the better option but oh well, we are married now. It definitely seems like you could run a one or two inch deeper sumped pan with that 6 cyl. subframe just for people doing research. Tomorrow I am going to lift the front of the motor up a bit and see how it changes everything. I was set on making my own mounts to save some cash but now I almost want the jesus freak ones just to see how high they put the motor. Obviously you go into this knowing these types of problems will happen but for some reason you still pretend to be surprised when they do.

[StolenFox]

Your sway bar interference problem will get worse with the JF mounts as the engine will sit a bit lower than what you have pictured. I am running the Mast Motorsports cast aluminum pan (dimensions almost identical to the Autokraft / Champ pan) and it sits flush with the aluminum crossbar. Many have run the sway bar under the sub frame with good results. I am considering relocating mine to the front of sub frame and build mounts that triangulate the frame rails and aluminum sub frame. A TR6060 has the remote mount shifter that would be much easier for you to adapt to the correct dimension. Perhaps it would be worth selling the T56 Magnum you have and going that route?

S.F.

[Jesus Freak]

They make an Fbody Magnum now. Get ahold of rpm or tick, they'll be able to get you measurements from bellhousing to shifter.

Also, my mounts will make your sway bar problem worse. Have to move the sway bar under the subframe. Haven't scraped mine in the 4 years it's been under there.

[get dustd]

I am actually talking with Tick right now about the F body tail and the gto shifter. The problem is I think I would have to hack my mainshaft which I really do not want to do. TR6060 is not an option because it has a 3 bolt output that is weak. I need the big splined shaft for the power levels I am trying to hit. That being said my new focus is this sway bar relocation... Do you guys have any pictures? Do you literally just flip the mounts to the underside of the subframe and it just clears the control arms no problem like that with the stock sway bar links? More details please. This may solve my problem as I can drop the rear of the trans down some and make some linkage to the stock shifter like the SIKKY shifter. If I can get the rear of the trans down another inch the driveshaft angle does not look bad and I will have room for mechanical linkage.

Edit: now that I look you would have flip the sway bar like that? Or are you both talking about flipping it to front of the rack mounting points?

Something along these lines but not nearly as pretty:

http://www.sikky.com/wp-content/uplo...IZE15_A_WM.jpg