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Thread: Collecting Bits for the 327cs project

  1. #1
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    Collecting Bits for the 327cs project

    Hey there fellow Legionnaires! Spring is right around the corner and I'm picking up a m20b27 engine for the major part of the upgrades to Sierra, my '79 320/6. Some things I am looking for are either output shafts for the E21 rear diff or better yet a 3.45 LSD. If anyone has one I'd love to hear from you. PM me or just send me a note at danlong315@gmail.com.

    The other components of this build involve swapping out the 4 speed for a 5 speed but I may leave that if I can find the lower ratio diff. The trans swap would involve transplanting the bell housing from the 4 spd to the 5 spd which is something I am not looking forward to.

    The result will be a 2.7 eta lower end with 200 head and carbed intake (keeping the 4 bbl Solex).

    The old m20b20 is leaking out the front and back and even though she's only got 95K on the clock it's time to pull her. Since I'm going to do that might as well have some fun with it!

    01515_2kwwgyndC49_600x450.jpgIMG_4987.JPGe21carbs.jpg
    I still drive daily with no commute...
    The Hazard is All, Praise the Hazard!



  2. #2
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    Pm'd you


  3. #3
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    I'm running that same setup. Pretty decent power from the 2.7 bottom block, and the 200 head from the 320/6 will give it a very peepy fast pickup. At least if the 200 head from the 320/6 is the same as my 323 "200" head.

    I'm running a Holley 4160 with a simple eBay fuel pump.

    There's a friend here that made that same swap to his Baur 320/6, and its running good.

    Subscribed to this thread!!

  4. #4
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    How are you ! I am doing a 2.7 bottom end with a 2.5 head shaved down with a high lift cam. Should make some good power.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the diff lead, Dups. Couldn't find it though. Dang it!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks Onedroppr,
    I had this entire engine set up from CT back a couple of years ago and traded it to Adam! Sheesh, what a dumb thing to do! Yes on the 200 head as well. Should have a nice growl to her when done and I'll be redoing the exhaust headers and entire system. Right now I'm running 20/50 in her with (don't shoot me it works) 1/2 quart of gear oil to thicken it up some more. Got to take it easy on her upon start up but the leaks have finally slowed up to almost nothing.

    I have to say all that oil (JJ knows all to well how much since he tailed me to Saratoga last year on the Thruway!) spraying under the car has done wonders for rust prevention. Too bad there wasn't an oil leak in the trunk!

    Getting the entire ETA engine tomorrow evening. Too many clients and too many projects shifting in the schedule for personal stuff. I'm even working on refitting a Skips barge for a client on the left coast.

    So this means I'll be rebuilding 2 engines this spring. Mopar and BMW. Hope not to get the parts mixed up.
    I still drive daily with no commute...
    The Hazard is All, Praise the Hazard!



  6. #6
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    UpDate:
    got an email from one of our Canandian members I met while driving through Watkins Glen last year. He's moving to BC and is making a trip to the Finger Lakes to visit and drop off some parts, Yeah!

    On the engine front, picked up the M20B27 motor this am. Looks like a chronic leak from the valve cover gasket from the amount of oil/grease covering the ENTIRE right side of the motor. Got it on my heavy-duty Yellow Ryder wagon for now. Those are great wagons with the plastic pan in the bottom and the BIG knobby tires. The sides drop down as well. I moved the motor from the back of the wagon to the cart with not much effort and no hoist.

    Next step is to eval the motor. Tear down and see if there are any issue with bearings and the crank. Hoping that there isn't. Still planning on replacing all seals and gaskets to the bottom end.

    I'm lucky the motor came with such things as the a/c compressor, alternator and other stuff. better to sort this out. The teardown will happen this weekend.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    I still drive daily with no commute...
    The Hazard is All, Praise the Hazard!



  7. #7
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    Those b27 blocks are bulletproof and more if they were in an auto like mine was. Being an ETA is a lazy lifestyle never revving over 5k LOL.

    In the process I tear out all the from part, done the timing belt and tensioner, water pump, front and rear seals and few bits more.

    You will enjoy your build, it's easy and pretty decent power. Don't forget to match your head sprocket with your bottom end one.
    Ie. ETA block uses late style timing belt, early 200 heads uses early timing belts and they are different dent on the belt so you need to match the sprockets.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the advice. I realize that the original ETA wasn't set up to go past 5K revs. Have to see why (likely the crank?) because my M20B20 goes past that with no issues at all. Not that I want to just jam her to redline all the time, just like to know that it's there if needed.

    Got the head off and yuck! Talk about an oil-burner!!IMG_5744.JPG This has got to be the most carbon crap on cylinders and valves I've seen in while. IMG_5745.jpgI suspected the gasket was bad but betting there are other leaking issues. The cylinders and walls look and feel good, no scoring or signs of offset wear. G-D lots of old oil on the outside though! There has got to be about 4 quarts of oil on the OUTSIDE of this block alone. Good thing is that it really kept the block nice and solid.IMG_5742.JPGIMG_5743.JPG This shot shows a bit of OOPS! Valve slap on the #3 cylinder! No evidence of it on the valve (see photo above). This head is the 200 type, same as on the 302/6. The piston was soaked in ZEP for a while then wiped out. Still a hard layer of carbon nearly an 1/8" thick!!
    IMG_5741.JPG glad to see confirmation of the 2.7 block. I did see the donor car but you never know. Lots of ZEP de-greaser, full power on this one. Found that after using a plastic blade to scrape off the thick stuff that fiberglass insulation works really well to absorb and wipe off the residue. It's abrasive enough but acts like a sponge.

    Next stop: more power washing of block and a possible acid bath for my 200 head assembly to remove all that scale. Added feature --- inspection of what should be the intermediate shaft cover. Planning on installing the old euro style distributor there in lieu of the timing belt driven dizzy up front.
    I still drive daily with no commute...
    The Hazard is All, Praise the Hazard!



  9. #9
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    well it's now about 9pm and I've managed to remove 90% or more of the oil slick coating on this block. A combination of GUNK foaming degreaser (4 cans so far), brass and stainless brushes, garden hose with jet attachment, and for removing the rust residue I am using CLR. I was going to use the stuff from the auto place (Evaporust) but this works really well! The rust is bubbling off and with a quick brush it's nearly down to bright metal. I was surprised that it works this good.

    Tomorrow I am going to the junk yard so track down the 2 E30's left in the yard. One had the 885 head on it. Considering putting the 2.7/ 885 combo together now. That is if I score at the salvage place.

    Here are a three shots in the dark of the motor mostly cleaned up. Engine mounts come off next and then she's getting put on the engine stand for more internal inspection. It appears that cylinders 2 and 5 had some oil really leaking in from the head gasket.
    IMG_5751.JPGIMG_5750.JPGIMG_5748.JPG
    I still drive daily with no commute...
    The Hazard is All, Praise the Hazard!



  10. #10
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    Further progress today. Took part of the day off to go 885 head hunting but out of the 4 E30's in the yard the only one left with a head was the 325 es. No luck there. That was a 200 as well. Got back to the shop and finished off the lather, rinse, repeat process with the block. Got her etch primed to slow up the oxidation (that happened nearly instantly in the damp environment). Got the oil pan off and am cleaning the crankcase of excess oil and grime. Will check the main and rod bearings tomorrow.

    Here are some further shots.IMG_5755.JPGIMG_5757.jpgIMG_5758.jpg first on the left is the primed block on the engine stand. Middle is with the oil pan removed and gasket stripped off and the last one is of the intermediate shaft. That is what my euro uses to operate the distributor instead of on the camshaft location up front. Looks as if I can remove the cap and install the original dizzy there.
    I still drive daily with no commute...
    The Hazard is All, Praise the Hazard!



  11. #11
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    Feels as if I'm posting to myself here....
    I drove from Geneva to Syracuse (about 60 miles) and dropped 2 quarts one way. That's just waay too much oil loss for anyone to feel comfortable. The last time I did this I drove it was like "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" with the car burnt out.

    Got a good Alpine Green for the engine block, a Detroit Diesel color so I can see any leaks right away. Also looks like an old time engine block color from back in the day. More tomorrow!
    I still drive daily with no commute...
    The Hazard is All, Praise the Hazard!



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by midlifebmw View Post
    .....Feels as if I'm posting to myself here....
    I'm listening, just don't have much to say. you see I've done a M20 swap and i wasn't impressed. granted there was a bunch of new found torque and that was cool, but it numbed down the car's agility.
    Tom D

    77 e21 - m42
    88 e30m3
    04 330 dinan3
    84 r1000rt
    02 r1150rs
    all of them gray
    14 f800gsa - red headed stepchild!

  13. #13
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    I'm following along too. I built my own 2.8L M20 last year. Good times.

  14. #14
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    I found an 885 head in the junk yard and rebuilt it. I also built a 3.0 liter with S50 crank and S50 rods.....I am sure its gonna be a lot funner that the old tired engine I had.
    I have heard that you can use the M40 5 speed tranny and split it on certain E21 trannies, but I forget the years.

    Go with the 885 head if you can find it....
    "..Horsepower is a measure of work done over time, or the rate at which work is done."




    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/579694/1


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom D View Post
    I'm listening, just don't have much to say. you see I've done a M20 swap and i wasn't impressed. granted there was a bunch of new found torque and that was cool, but it numbed down the car's agility.
    Ah hopefully setting my m20 against the firewall will help with the front end weight.

  16. #16
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    Thanks! I will continue to search for the 885 head. One concern that comes up for me with this combo is that the 325i pistons have a lot more dished out for valve clearance than the 325e does. Seeing that I wonder if I'll need 325i pistons to swap in. If I go that far might as well just drop a M20B25 engine in and call it a day but I'm committed right now to the 2.7 block version. I just don't know. Maybe with the stroke of the 2.7 that still leaves enough clearance for either head option. Just want to research and be sure of it.

    I've not experienced any negative characteristics with the M20 engine in the E21. I had a 323i and that was a screamer and handled just fine. Of course I always did the battery relocation to get that hunk of lead off the driver's side front end.

    Inspection side note:
    I've read that the 2.7 block only has 4 main bearings but upon opening up of the bottom end I can clearly see 7. What I read was that the use of only 4? bearings was to reduce friction (what?) for the more efficient engine but this limited the RPM's to 4800 or so. Is this just BS?
    Last edited by midlifebmw; 03-13-2016 at 12:16 PM. Reason: More thoughts.
    I still drive daily with no commute...
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by midlifebmw View Post
    .....a 323i and handled just fine....
    see this is the thing. take a iron block 4 cylinder, shove it 3" backwards against the firewall, drop it 1.5" lower and it handles phenomenally. allan from oregon just weighed his M42 swap at 1280/1240 f/r, you can't do that with a 6 pot.

    im not saying that a 4 banger is a better swap then a 6, but based on my driving a 6 cylinder is not for me, at least not in a car that was designed around a 4.
    Last edited by Tom D; 03-13-2016 at 01:11 PM.
    Tom D

    77 e21 - m42
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    04 330 dinan3
    84 r1000rt
    02 r1150rs
    all of them gray
    14 f800gsa - red headed stepchild!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom D View Post
    see this is the thing. take a iron block 4 cylinder, shove it 3" backwards against the firewall, drop it 1.5" lower and it handles phenomenally. allan from oregon just weighed his M42 swap at 1280/1240 f/r, you can't do that with a 6 pot.

    im not saying that a 4 banger is a better swap then a 6, but based on my driving a 6 cylinder is not for me, at least not in a car that was designed around a 4.
    I get it but I'm filling my front tires with Helium to counter that issue. I imagine you have to do a lot more work with the driveshaft and engine mounts to get that kind of mod but shifting the center of gravity and weight distribution would certainly help.

    I didn't know that the E21 was originally designed for just the M10. The 320/6 I have doesn't have that cut out for the radiator (heck, there's not a belt driven fan!) with the M20 in it. The car came with factory a/c and the condenser is in front of the rad with an electric fan on it. I assumed the E21 was designed with both engines as options with variations on the front subframe.
    I still drive daily with no commute...
    The Hazard is All, Praise the Hazard!



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by midlifebmw View Post
    .... I assumed the E21 was designed with both engines as options with variations on the front subframe.....
    nope, the E21 was introduced in 1975 and the M20 wasn't released until late 1977. therefore the first 2.5 years of E21 production as well as it's design was based on the M10.

    - - - Updated - - -

    every vehicle I've ever owned the first thing that happened was that I needed more power, then I learned how to drive it.

    the problem with power is that it's intoxicating and once you become familiar with it then you need more and anybody can mash the peddle. vehicle dynamics is completely different in that no matter what upgrades are done, it's almost always the operator that is the weak link.
    Tom D

    77 e21 - m42
    88 e30m3
    04 330 dinan3
    84 r1000rt
    02 r1150rs
    all of them gray
    14 f800gsa - red headed stepchild!

  20. #20
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    "Inspection side note: I've read that the 2.7 block only has 4 main bearings but upon opening up of the bottom end I can clearly see 7. What I read was that the use of only 4? bearings was to reduce friction (what?) for the more efficient engine but this limited the RPM's to 4800 or so. Is this just BS?"

    You're thinking of the cylinder head. The Eta head had 4 camshaft journals and fewer oiling ports than the 325i head. Along with the cam profile these limited RPM but had a better toque curve.

  21. #21
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    Thank you, Doug! Makes perfect sense now. Still searching for one of those 885's though. Local junkyard had 3 E30's but all the good bits were long gone! Even looked into a 525i of that vintage and that was swiped as well... I'll have to cast a larger net I guess.
    I still drive daily with no commute...
    The Hazard is All, Praise the Hazard!



  22. #22
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    Hey! Anyone near Reno, NV or know someone that lives near there?? I may ask for a pick-up favor if possible.
    I still drive daily with no commute...
    The Hazard is All, Praise the Hazard!



  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by midlifebmw View Post
    327cs
    Lol what's the C for? Are you going to weld a different roof on and make your 2 door sedan into a coupe?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by midlifebmw View Post
    Thank you, Doug! Makes perfect sense now. Still searching for one of those 885's though. Local junkyard had 3 E30's but all the good bits were long gone! Even looked into a 525i of that vintage and that was swiped as well... I'll have to cast a larger net I guess.
    Hey ! let me look at the 4 heads I have sitting in my garage. I may have the one you need.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layne View Post
    Lol what's the C for? Are you going to weld a different roof on and make your 2 door sedan into a coupe?
    Ha! Just messing with the nomenclature: 3 (series) 27 (litres), cs (carburetor special) . working with what letters I have available in my collection. :-)

    - - - Updated - - -
    M60,
    If you have one I'd appreciate it greatly. Not having much luck in my neck of the woods right now. Not expecting perfect, just serviceable. I'm rebuilding most of the engine anyway and double-checking what I have before assembly. New oil pump, water pump, timing kit, new seals, bearings, etc.

    Drop me a line if you do have something on my email at the start of the thread.
    Thanks.
    Last edited by midlifebmw; 03-15-2016 at 11:21 AM. Reason: comments
    I still drive daily with no commute...
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