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Thread: How to build a dank e36 drift car, part deux: The Chosen One

  1. #101
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    so these blocks you're making.

    they'll decrease bump steer and quicken steering....but can you make a set with stock Ackerman? like for a street car or race car? i don't need 100* of steering angle, but i do need some bump steer correction and who doesn't need quicker steering? ok. drag racers don't need quicker steering. but everyone else does.
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
    current build: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    instant grams: doktor_b

  2. #102
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    yupper, sure can. kind of. here's what they'd look like instead:






    due to the design, ackerman can't go 100% factory or the counter bore would wind up opening a hole on the side of the block. but the offset is only about 3mm from stock, so your wheels will still have differing toe out/in during turns
    Last edited by jalopi; 07-21-2016 at 11:45 PM.
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
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  3. #103
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    I would probably prefer a set like that than the zero ackerman setup too... You'd still get improved angle, and the ackerman wouldn't totally screw you up for some random (extremely amateur) drifting, right?

  4. #104
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    You seem like the person where they use the sawz-most first, (aka sawzall until I used it.) A for effort lol!

  5. #105
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    the biggest benefit to low ackerman is you've got less resistance at the front wheels while drifting. since you're kinda compensating for the radius of the turn with your steering wheel, the front wheels are effectively driving in a straight-ish line. but with factory toe-out-on-turns your toe will be off mid drift with the wheel turned at full lock. reducing ackerman basically makes it so that your alignment continues to stay "good" through the turn while going sideways
    Last edited by jalopi; 07-22-2016 at 04:46 PM.
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  6. #106
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    How much of a disadvantage do you feel low ackerman is for grip driving? (autocross or track day) Maybe it isn't much of a disadvantage at all, especially since you aren't making it zero or negative ackerman...

  7. #107
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    for grip driving, low ackerman has the same disadvantages that a welded diff has vs an open diff or LSD. the wheels on the outside of the turn will always be dragging a little bit, which isn't ideal for a grippy setup

    does this actually mean anything in the real world? yes, but driver preference matters more. some people don't like how a car with a welded diff drives, some people just don't care. i imagine the former group wouldn't like a grip car with low ackerman either
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  8. #108
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    That makes sense, thanks.

  9. #109
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    so i did some stuff today. put the clearcoat on, which really made the color pop. my potato camera almost does the color justice now





    roll call













































































    but wait..... there's more

















































    NOW INTRODUCING:
    SPIN PREVENTION KITS' GLOW-IN-THE-DARK ANGLE KIT





    do you even 80's/90's cars?
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  10. #110
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    Dude! Nice!!!

  11. #111
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    those are freaking awesome. some of these with some underglows = dank indeed
    13 Grand Cherokee Limited V8 - Daily Driver - Wife
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    90 BMW 535i/5 - i should probably work on this again...

  12. #112
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    "Dank" indeed

    Status: Someone put glitter in my oil. Wait. Why's all my oil outside the engine? What's that knocking?

  13. #113
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    We need some 351 action!

  14. #114
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    sheeeetttt, i need some 351 action. lol. but i've just been too busy with life and getting this whole business thing going. after i finish my first batch of arms, i'm either starting back up on my car or working on a booster delete kit for the E30 and E36. it really depends on if the maryland weather is still hot and muggy. i just haven't been in the mood to work on my car in 95*, 90% humidity weather
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalopi View Post
    i just haven't been in the mood to work on my car in 95*, 90% humidity weather
    this times a thousand. ugh
    13 Grand Cherokee Limited V8 - Daily Driver - Wife
    97 Z3 2.8 Roadster
    95 325i Sedan - Project #ebayE36
    90 BMW 535i/5 - i should probably work on this again...

  16. #116
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    Have you happened to have worked on this beast recently? The suspense of imminent 351 drift action is killing me...

  17. #117
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    Did you ever get the alt to charge ? i just started my swap and i am having the same prob

  18. #118
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    yup. double check all your connections and grounds. i have no idea what was wrong with my charging system, but i drove over a pothole on a test drive and my charging voltage went from 11.7V to 14.5V. i haven't driven or touched the car in about six months though, so i haven't gone in to see what the root problem is yet
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  19. #119
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    Hey there drift bros, it's been a while since I've updated this thread. With trying to start a business and dealing with crippling depression, I just haven't had the time or motivation to work on my car. But now that I no longer have the business to worry about and my mood has lifted ( I guess it being springtime might have something to do with it? ) it's time to start working on the car again

    My first task will be to make a set of headers. The upside down hacked up pipe-through-the-wheel-well nonsense had to go, it was terribly loud and leaky. So I bought a set of header flanges and one of those fancy ICE header lego kits. The problem is, the amount of space I'm working with under this hood is just silly






    There's no room for a header collector up front, no room for a "block hugger" style setup and while I could shoot the collector backwards on the passenger side of the engine, the drivers' side has even less room due to the steering shaft. Even if I shorten the primary stubs that are currently on the flanges, I'll still be seriously pressed for room. So I had an idea while I was in the garage today. Why not build a set of log-style manifolds? All I'd need to do is use a holesaw to make eight holes in some 2.5" pipe, weld-r-up and I'd be good to go. Here's a few pictures of a model I made to get an idea of how I'd make this happen





    I have no illusions about the kind of flow this manifold design will have. I'm sure it won't be great. But I figure this - turbo guys have been using log-style manifolds with much smaller collector tubes for decades now. Granted, they usually see a 10-20% increase in power when they switch to a tubular style manifold, but most gains seem to be at relatively high RPMs. The heads I have limit me to about 6k RPMs anyway and with the torque/gearing this setup has, I doubt I'll be winding it up past 5k RPMs

    More than anything, I don't think I can deal with of building a set of tight-fitting tubular manifolds right now, I'm afraid that if it's too hard I'll wind up getting frustrated/defeated and the car will wind up sitting with no progress again

    If anyone has input on why this is/isn't a good idea or if they think it will/won't work, I'm all ears
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  20. #120
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    Turbo guys aren't concerned about scavenging, they're concerned about containing exhaust gas energy until the turbo. Keep it tight and short so that pressure and temperature remain high until it enters the turbine.

    N/A is a completely different animal, and exhaust scavenging through headers of the correct diameter, primary length, and secondary length is crucial to maximizing everything else about the engine.

    This article shows log manifolds giving up 20hp to long tubes.

  21. #121
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    Ls engines must be a bit narrower then your 305, my headers run the same as your lego blocks in the first pic



    I say, go for the log style, being that it's cheap and easy to do for now, and if they're awful, then switch it up. I think at a minimum you might want to have a little bend going into the "collector" though rather then just straight tubes and punching holes in the 2.5 tubing, that definitely won't flow well

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
    Turbo guys aren't concerned about scavenging, they're concerned about containing exhaust gas energy until the turbo. Keep it tight and short so that pressure and temperature remain high until it enters the turbine.

    N/A is a completely different animal, and exhaust scavenging through headers of the correct diameter, primary length, and secondary length is crucial to maximizing everything else about the engine.

    This article shows log manifolds giving up 20hp to long tubes.

    Good find, that's even better news than I could have hoped for. By those numbers, that's only a 5.5% difference in power (when comparing long tubes vs logs for the 389 engine posted). That's completely acceptable to me

    I understand the merits of scavenging, but really for what I'm using the car for, I'm not worried about the marginal gains that a top notch exhaust design would give me. Also, here's a picture of the engine with stock log manifolds that they were referencing - I believe that what I have planned will flow much better than this garbage




    Quote Originally Posted by Mikestokman View Post
    Ls engines must be a bit narrower then your 305, my headers run the same as your lego blocks in the first pic

    I say, go for the log style, being that it's cheap and easy to do for now, and if they're awful, then switch it up. I think at a minimum you might want to have a little bend going into the "collector" though rather then just straight tubes and punching holes in the 2.5 tubing, that definitely won't flow well


    From what I've gathered, the exhaust ports of LS heads are angled further down than the ports on Ford heads. Good idea on the radius though. This what I'm picturing doing

    Start with a 90* tube




    Hack a decent amount of it off




    But the vertical shape still isn't contained within a circle, this will probably be an issue when trying to put the "collector" on




    Solution? Chuck it up on the lathe and remove the extra material




    At least in my head that works

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
    Turbo guys aren't concerned about scavenging, they're concerned about containing exhaust gas energy until the turbo. Keep it tight and short so that pressure and temperature remain high until it enters the turbine.

    N/A is a completely different animal, and exhaust scavenging through headers of the correct diameter, primary length, and secondary length is crucial to maximizing everything else about the engine.

    This article shows log manifolds giving up 20hp to long tubes.

    Good find, that's even better news than I could have hoped for. By those numbers, that's only a 5.5% difference in power (when comparing long tubes vs logs for the 389 engine posted). That's completely acceptable to me

    I understand the merits of scavenging, but really for what I'm using the car for, I'm not worried about the marginal gains that a top notch exhaust design would give me. Also, here's a picture of the engine with stock log manifolds that they were referencing - I believe that what I have planned will flow much better than this garbage




    Quote Originally Posted by Mikestokman View Post
    Ls engines must be a bit narrower then your 305, my headers run the same as your lego blocks in the first pic

    I say, go for the log style, being that it's cheap and easy to do for now, and if they're awful, then switch it up. I think at a minimum you might want to have a little bend going into the "collector" though rather then just straight tubes and punching holes in the 2.5 tubing, that definitely won't flow well


    From what I've gathered, the exhaust ports of LS heads are angled further down than the ports on Ford heads. Good idea on the radius though. This what I'm picturing doing

    Start with a 90* tube




    Hack a decent amount of it off




    But the vertical shape still isn't contained within a circle, this will probably be an issue when trying to put the "collector" on




    Solution? Chuck it up on the lathe and remove the extra material




    Apparently that is the shape you are left with. Not the best but I agree, it's better than nothing.
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  23. #123
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    Less than optimal, but running and driving is 100% better than not running and driving because not optimal.
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
    current build: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    instant grams: doktor_b

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalopi View Post
    But now that I no longer have the business to worry about and my mood has lifted
    no more spin prevention kits!?

  25. #125
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    Yes and no. I still have a decent amount of inventory left over from my production batches, but given how poor my sales have been, I had to end my shop lease. I'd love to get back into parts development again, but the cost of rent/materials/tools/machine-time is incredibly high. Maybe once I move all of my current inventory I'll consider making another batch/making some new stuff. But my business model will have to be wildly different than what it currently has been. If this past year has taught me anything, it's that I now know exactly why so many aftermarket companies go with the "group buy" approach to making new products... without a decent amount of sales, this business can easily bankrupt you
    Last edited by jalopi; 04-28-2017 at 05:08 PM.
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

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