Your track E30 Fuel system? Best capacity, safety, starvation solution.

[PhilMorrison]

Hi guys,
I'm in the middle of an S65 E30 M3 track build, and I'm at the stage I need to make a decision on the fuel system. My experience with the E36 M3, E46 M3 (when it was S54 and S85) is not good. On the V10 M3 I ended up solving cornering starvation issues with a swirl pot setup.

I'm interested to know what other people have done to ensure correct fueling when cornering hard. With standard tanks, or aftermarket setups. Pictures would be very useful.

Many thanks

Phil

[TheJuggernaut]

I used a swirl pot but to ensure consistent feeding, I used a late model tank which has two identical holes for a separate high pressure pump and level sender. I put an early pickup pump into each side with its own sender and calibrated my fuel level gauge to read the two senders in series (so even as the fuel moves from side to side, I have an accurate reading of the fuel level).

[PhilMorrison]

Thanks.
Is there any levelling system between the two sides of the saddle tank? I'm just wondering if one pump is likely to run dry frequently if the overflow from the swirl pot only goes back into one half of the tank?

[TheJuggernaut]

No, I've thought about splitting the overflow but the pickup pumps run at low load

[Massive Lee]

Swirl pot / anti-surge tank, is the way to go. That way you know for 100% that the pump's pick-up is always submerged.

[jimmypet]

Hi guys,
I'm in the middle of an S65 E30 M3 track build, and I'm at the stage I need to make a decision on the fuel system. My experience with the E36 M3, E46 M3 (when it was S54 and S85) is not good. On the V10 M3 I ended up solving cornering starvation issues with a swirl pot setup.

I'm interested to know what other people have done to ensure correct fueling when cornering hard. With standard tanks, or aftermarket setups. Pictures would be very useful.

Many thanks

Phil

Stick an ATL Well Cell in it with a 3 door surge tank and forget about it.
The Well Cell fits in the E30 like it was made for it.



I think the Well Cell with the 3 door surge tank is an easy button for fuel in the E30 chassis.
Its the same location as the fuel cells in the E30M3 DTM / BTCC / Gruppe A cars.

[jrkoupe]

is that street legal........hmmm...


seriously tho....

[jimmypet]

is that street legal........hmmm...


seriously tho....

Cant see why not.
I don't think the state inspection rules qualify anything about aftermarket fuel tanks unless its in a state that gives you a hard time about vapors and venting.
OP said track car, I immediately throw things like street legal and emissions out the window when I see that in post (especially when the car in question is an S65 powered E30).
I honestly don't know if its street legal in all 50 states, but I'm sure I could get it past in small town Pennsyltucky...

[jrkoupe]

spoke to atl 5 mins ago.....

not DOT..


hmmm......

[PhilMorrison]

There's no wheel well anymore unfortunatly. My current thinking is using one of our spare fuel cells from the race car, but at only 40 litres I'm a bit concerned it'll be a pain in the ass at the Nurburgring, as the S65 knows how to drink!

[1990m3]

Do you need cage protection around that well cell?

[matthugie]

This is the setup I used in my e30. Low pressure in-tank pump feeding a Bosch 044 in an Integrated Engineering surge tank, mounted to the rear bulkhead in the trunk. Before this, starting with a full tank I couldn't run 2 20 minute sessions without having fuel starve towards the end of the 2nd session. With this setup I could run the car with the gauge pegged to E without a hiccup. This doesn't do much of anything for capacity (IIRC it's a 1L tank) but it does solve starvation issues.

[gobuffs]

I just replaced the fuel cell in my E30. Was 18 gallon now 22 gallon. Mounted where the spare tire used to be. I have an external pump and adjustable FPR. The old cell had a built in surge tank and worked well but seemed to leave a couple gallons before sucking air. The new cell has a Holley Hydramat as the pick up. In a static run test, the flow wasn't compromised til about 1/2 gallon left in the cell. I don't know what it will do in a dynamic environment- I am expecting it to get compromised before 1/2 gallon, but after the 2 gallons in the old set up. So before I had an effective 16 gallon cell, now I am expecting at least 20 gallon effective- so about 25% bigger. The old cell could go about 50 min before first stutter of low fuel. So if my guesstimates are right, I should be able to at least an hour on one tank.

[vitiokas95]

This is the setup I used in my e30. Low pressure in-tank pump feeding a Bosch 044 in an Integrated Engineering surge tank, mounted to the rear bulkhead in the trunk. Before this, starting with a full tank I couldn't run 2 20 minute sessions without having fuel starve towards the end of the 2nd session. With this setup I could run the car with the gauge pegged to E without a hiccup. This doesn't do much of anything for capacity (IIRC it's a 1L tank) but it does solve starvation issues.

I have same system installed, actually I bough this system from you. Seriously one of my best upgrades. Works perfectly and I can run my E30 until last drop of fuel. Before I could only run until have tank or so.

[S14]

Here was my fix:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...=319887&page=2

I've been experiencing fuel starvation on track about 5 seconds after a highly loaded right hand corner (ex: lift, turn-in, on the gas 20ft before the apex). This can happen with as much as 3/4 full rank of gas!

A few weeks ago, I took the fuel pump out of the tank and noticed the rubber reducer/expander was cracked on the large end, see the photo below. This reducer cannot be purchased separately from the dealer, is it a common part in another vehicle I could scavenge? Any ideas on a way to replace it with items sourced locally?


Untitled by ericandshovin, on Flickr



Since I couldn't find a early E30 locally to snatch that rubber piece, I had to improvise a bit...


1st step was to use a special type of teflon tape used on fuel systems & wrap the split part of the reducer to the tube. This took a few tries as there isn't much room around the other pipes, and teflon likes to fold over on itself:





2nd step was to heat shrink the reducer/teflon combo onto the fuel pump:


shrunk






3rd step was raiding the spare parts bin for some small hose clamps and clamping the heat shrink on either end for good measure. Sorry, I forgot to take a photo of this step.


And the result? Two friday's ago I went to a local open lapping day and used an entire tank of fuel with zero starvation! In fact, it wasn't until the light went on that I even had a second thought about it. This is on 235/40/17 Nitto NT01's too, so no shortage of grip to slosh the fuel away from the pickup point.

My guess is that the split in the reducer either allowed air to enter the system when fuel was sloshed to the left side of the tank, or that fuel was pushed out of the split, either way, creating a bit of a gap between the in tank lift pump and the external main pump.

and here is a vid from that open lapping day:

[dmw16]

Jimmy, did you build the metal case for the cell or do they make a hard walled well cell? I've only ever seen the bladders and most race orgs require it to be in a metal case.

[jimmypet]

Jimmy, did you build the metal case for the cell or do they make a hard walled well cell? I've only ever seen the bladders and most race orgs require it to be in a metal case.

I had it made by a local sheet metal shop.
The well cell comes with no outer casing, just the hard bladder.

SCCA regs need an 090 wall thickness so thats what we used.
I dropped off the cell and told them I needed a hat box over that bladder and it was done in a day or so.
Was actually pretty inexpensive (I don't get to say that very much haha).

My Gruppe A car which was a BTCC spec car, built by Prodrive in the UK uses is Premier soft bag tank that uses the actual wheel well as three sides of its container, and the top is a fabricated aluminum cover that bolts into the trunk floor completing the enclosure.
I have some pics of that somewhere as well I'll try to find.
Similar approach, just the ATL well cell is much easier to source here in the US.

[dmw16]

Thanks. I had wondered if making a lid for the wheel well would suffice but the sheet metal there isn't even close to .090. That's heavy duty. The floors are probably 20 gauge at best.

[jimmypet]

Sorry 090 was the spec for aluminum which is what I was wanting.
I'd have to look up the spec for steel cans.
It will undoubtedly be thinner.

FIA accepted the lid over the spare tire well for the DTM / BTCC, etc E30 M3s. I'd bet its still viable if the lid meets spec (either 090 aluminum or whatever the steel spec is).
Just speculation, need to read the rules but I don't see why it would not.

[dmw16]

Thanks. Was thinking .090 steel is no joke. Wouldn't be easy to fabricate with that's for sure.

[Bimmer nut8]

Hey Jimmy do you happen to know what part no. you ATL cell is? I'm looking at running the same thing in my E30, also how much did it set you back?

Stick an ATL Well Cell in it with a 3 door surge tank and forget about it.
The Well Cell fits in the E30 like it was made for it.



I think the Well Cell with the 3 door surge tank is an easy button for fuel in the E30 chassis.
Its the same location as the fuel cells in the E30M3 DTM / BTCC / Gruppe A cars.

[jimmypet]

12 Gallon ATL Well Cell 171110
I think it was just around $500 when I bought mine.
Have not priced them in a while.

[TheJuggernaut]

FYI ATL had a new one at PRI this year, 16 gallons so you wouldn't even lose capacity from stock

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