1978 320i resurrection (Leaving the Fox den)

[Vestri]

Tried starting it today, not getting any fuel to the fuel distributor. I'll need to test the internal and external fuel pumps.

Edit
In this post by Tom D https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...9#post27377729

it shouldn't be too hard to get it started.

drain the tanks. add fresh fuel and a new filter
check all rubber for vacuum leaks
pull the plugs and put a little light oil in the cylinders, crank the engine without the plugs
remove the relay and jump the fuel pump, terminal 15 to 87. lift the air flow plate with the pump jumped, this will purge the fuel lines.
hook it up and fire it.

Could this be my issue, and what/where is terminal 15 and 87?

Where is the fuel pump relay? The cold start valve, and fuel pump relay aren't same are they? or is it just that 16amp fuse?

[epmedia]

Did you get the pumps running yet?

The fp relay is the one relay that's not next to all the other relays and fuses.

The cold start injector does not have a relay or a fuse.

In the diy/faq thread there's a link to the electric manual. If it's NLA, let me know and I can email you a copy (pdf file).

Here's the socket for the fuel pump relay. Compliments to GDAus.
There's also a pic in the diy/faq thread, but this one is much better.

click to enlarge
F Pump relay Sock04.JPG

[Vestri]

Did you get the pumps running yet?

The fp relay is the one relay that's not next to all the other relays and fuses.

The cold start injector does not have a relay or a fuse.

In the diy/faq thread there's a link to the electric manual. If it's NLA, let me know and I can email you a copy (pdf file).

Here's the socket for the fuel pump relay. Compliments to GDAus.
There's also a pic in the diy/faq thread, but this one is much better.

click to enlarge
F Pump relay Sock04.JPG

I don't think the internal pump runs, couldn't feel or hear it make a noise. I've focused more on the main pump. With the relay in and ignition on run, i hear the pump run for 1-1.5 seconds. I disconnected the pump and only got a few drops of fuel from the banjo fitting so i hooked a siphon pump on the hose right before the Y fitting, i did get fuel but also some air bubbles. I know i need to replace all of those hoses, but will that air prevent fuel from even getting to the pump, or can the pump sound like its running as it should, but actually be stuck?

I did try jumping the pump but it didn't work. I looked at the faq, but on my relay (unless i'm looking at it wrong) terminal 15 is where 87 is and 87 is where 31b is.

I haven't tried jumping it as shown in the faq because of the diagram on the relay and not wanting to accidentally fry something.

[epmedia]

Any air in the fuel system is not good. It's bad for the pump and all the pressure specs go wacky. If you can hear the pump, it's running.

The diagram on the side of the relay only shows you how the relay works, it does not show the socket pin-out. Use the picture I posted.

Edit: the pin-out on the relay is under the glue on the bottom of the relay. You may be able to see it if the glue is not 'super' old. Don't bother scraping the glue off, I've already done that for you on one of my old spares.

I'm not sure if you tested the ignition sparks yet. The ignition system has to work for the fuel pump relay to work when the engine is running. Make sure the contact points are clean, not pitted and adjusted properly (.016" gap). Of course when the relay is jumped between 15 & 87, the relay does not care if the ignition system works or not.

*Your '78 may not have been retrofitted with the in-tank pump. There was a recall to have it installed, but not all of them made it to the shop to have it installed. Neither of my '78s got the in-tank pump and I'm kind of glad about that.

[Vestri]

Any air in the fuel system is not good. It's bad for the pump and all the pressure specs go wacky. If you can hear the pump, it's running. | Thanks! |

The diagram on the side of the relay only shows you how the relay works, it does not show the socket pin-out. Use the picture I posted. | Ah! Thank you for the clarification! |

I'm not sure if you tested the ignition sparks yet. The ignition system has to work for the fuel pump relay to work when the engine is running. Make sure the contact points are clean, not pitted and adjusted properly (.016" gap). Of course when the relay is jumped between 15 & 87, the relay does not care if the ignition system works or not. | I don't have points anymore. A PO installed an xr700 unit. |

*Your '78 may not have been retrofitted with the in-tank pump. There was a recall to have it installed, but not all of them made it to the shop to have it installed. Neither of my '78s got the in-tank pump and I'm kind of glad about that. | It may not have one. I didn't lift what ever is in the passenger side opening out to be 100% yet, i just assumed that it did because of the electrical plug on it. |

Thanks, i'll do some more testing tomorrow after i replace some hoses.

Edit: Here is the passenger side access hole.

[Vestri]

Replaced the fuel vent lines and feed line from tank to pump, jumped the relay and got fuel to the motor. It seemed like it started to fire, but i backed off at that moment and flooded it after that.

I'll try again tomorrow with a charged battery.

[Vestri]

It runs! Needs some throttle to start and idle, but its a start. IE header smokes like crazy, but that's my fault for not removing the primer.

[Vestri]

I temporarily adjusted the aux air valve / air slide, to assist it running while cold. Now when it starts i don't need to give it throttle for 30 seconds to stay running. It stays at 1200 for about a minute thirty, as the slide closes it drops to 1000 then slowly to 800-750 then occasionally stumble down to 650-550, after about 5 minutes it died. To restart it after that i had to push the peddle almost all the way down to the floor.

When i remove the oil cap while it's running, there is no audible change.

Smoke test shows i have a vacuum leak at the throttle body gasket ring (11) underneath the throttle lever (12) http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=13_0114
Does anybody know where to find a replacement?

[epmedia]

You may only be able to find that 'gasket ring' and some other bits in a 'top-end gasket kit'. It could just be a regular o-ring, somebody here may confirm this. If I have not lost the bits from my gasket kit (it's been a few years), I'll see if I have that 'gasket ring'.

No other vacuum leaks? Remember that crankcase leaks are also vacuum leaks. Be sure to check the vacuum canister on the ignition dist, and the hose on the bottom of the engine oil dip-stick tube too.

[Vestri]

No others that i could see. I need to seal off the AFM before i smoke test it again, i was getting smokey air through the air box which was making it hard to look for leaks.

[Vestri]

I didn't pull the gasket ring out for fear of tearing it, but i haven't seen any others that look like it. It's like a plastic cup that almost looks like there should be an o-ring between the cup and the post so the plastic cup would be pressed against the wall.

[epmedia]

Your a night owl

That looks similar to a 'lip seal'. I wonder if you can soften/swell it up with a few drops of ATF? Clean it up a little first, of course.

[Vestri]

Night owl? What ever could you mean

Ha, i probably made the leak worse by removing the oily dust before i took the picture . I'll let the ATF sit a couple of days and see what happens.

[Vestri]

I taped off the throttle body leak and AFM and smoked it again. The oil filler cap leaked, swapped it for another i have, it leaks as well, but not nearly as bad. The oil dip-stick tube hose doesn't leak nor does the dip-stick while inserted.

The white hose (vac retard?)on the vacuum canister holds vacuum and the little plate thingy moves CW. The black hose (vac advance?) holds good vacuum, but not quite as strong as the white hose. Isn't vacuum advance supposed move that plate inside the distributor?

This is how i have it hooked up, and how it was before i took it apart. Is it hooked up right?

[epmedia]

Yep, that's hooked up correct, and the vac advance should move the plate CCW and be able to hold a steady vacuum. Remember the vac advance only gets vacuum when in 4th gear.

The vac retard is kind of unique and beneficial. It uses ported vacuum, but opposite behavior of the vac advance ported vacuum. It sucks when the throttle is closed, then stops sucking while opening the throttle just a little bit. The vac retard is not suppose to work until the timing valve warms up (you can hear it snap open after several seconds from cold). This vac retard helps the engine warm up faster, gives the engine a tad more torque at very small throttle/idle and reduces the exhaust stink at idle.

The engine is not getting flooded with fuel when it dies, is it?

Remember there may be additional fuel system checks/cleaning/adjustments after your satisfied with your smoke tests. I wouldn't be too concerned with the throttle shaft seal leak as long as the shaft does not seem to be wobbly. fyi: those 'lip seals' (if yours is a lip seal) are designed to only seal in one direction.

It looks like the distributor is mis-aligned a tooth, but that's ok if you can adjust the ignition timing to be proper.

I can be a night owl too, not as much as I use to be though. I got tired of being in bed til noon or later!

[Vestri]

I put more vacuum on the vac advance and it did move the plate, after 5 seconds it started to lose vacuum and another try after that it wouldn't hold vacuum anymore, oh well, guess i need a new vacuum canister.

It's not flooding when it dies, nor does it smell rich at the exhaust.
When idle is still around 800 removing the oil filler cap didn't kill it or change idle. Wouldn't it have to be running rich for it to not die when removing the cap?

I cleaned the WUR, the inside where the o-ring and those little metal disks are and the filter. tested the accumulator and it has a leak that is more like a slow but consistent trickle.

I need to suck it up and order a fuel pressure test kit, i'm not sure which of these two would be better (or work) https://www.amazon.com/CTA-Tools-3420-Jetronic-Injection/dp/B008FJXA3M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496979068&sr=8-1&keywords=cis+teste | https://www.amazon.com/Tool-Aid-5380...FGRX9BMV8K4426

[epmedia]

A couple folks here have tried the kit from HF with good reviews too.
https://www.harborfreight.com/master...kit-62788.html

I'll put more thoughts on other stuff later today, I gotta get my ass to bed!

[epmedia]

I put more vacuum on the vac advance and it did move the plate, after 5 seconds it started to lose vacuum and another try after that it wouldn't hold vacuum anymore, oh well, guess i need a new vacuum canister.

It's not flooding when it dies, nor does it smell rich at the exhaust.
When idle is still around 800 removing the oil filler cap didn't kill it or change idle. Wouldn't it have to be running rich for it to not die when removing the cap?

I cleaned the WUR, the inside where the o-ring and those little metal disks are and the filter. tested the accumulator and it has a leak that is more like a slow but consistent trickle.

We would think that the rpms would increase after removing the oil fill cap if it was running rich, and of course rpm decrease or engine die if proper or lean mix. I believe there is a wad of wire of some sort in the valve cover, under the breather. Oddly, realoem also shows a restricter/pcv device where the breather hose attaches. I don't have either of these, yours might. You can check to make sure it's all clear in there; if not - remove the valve cover and clean the wad and passage. Check/adjust the valve clearances while you're in there.

At operating temp and proper tune, the 2.0 idle speed with manual trans is 850-950. Have you set the dynamic ignition timing, or tweaked the fuel mix yet?

A tiny accumulator leak test should be ok for now, but it's only going to get worse. Fortunately they are still avail

Are you certain the meter piston/plunger in the fuel dist moves freely? fyi: If you ever remove the fuel dist; be aware the 2.0 piston/plunger does not have a retainer and can easily fall out. Have to put grease on it during installation so it does not fall out.

fyi: originally there is a tiny filter under the injector line banjo bolts. These filters are very finicky about cleanliness.

Edit: for now, to assist with t-shooting; you can disconnect and plug the vac advance and retard. *When that vac retard snaps open, the rpms decrease significantly and can cause confusion if you're not familiar with it's operation (assuming it's working correctly).

[Vestri]

A couple folks here have tried the kit from HF with good reviews too.
https://www.harborfreight.com/master...kit-62788.html

Ordered the HF kit, did some reading on it, and it seems like a pretty good kit after you remove the schrader valve internals. Also ordered the stuff to copy the gauge in this thread. As well as finally getting this book.

We would think that the rpms would increase after removing the oil fill cap if it was running rich, and of course rpm decrease or engine die if proper or lean mix. I believe there is a wad of wire of some sort in the valve cover, under the breather. Oddly, realoem also shows a restricter/pcv device where the breather hose attaches. I don't have either of these, yours might. You can check to make sure it's all clear in there; if not - remove the valve cover and clean the wad and passage. Check/adjust the valve clearances while you're in there.

Definitely don't have that mystery part! The PCV hose going to that port is one of the areas i smoke tested through, i removed the oil filler cap to see if air went through the port freely first and it did, certainly won't hurt to clean it though.
I've never checked or adjusted valves before, so that will be a learning experience.

At operating temp and proper tune, the 2.0 idle speed with manual trans is 850-950. Have you set the dynamic ignition timing, or tweaked the fuel mix yet?

I haven't properly timed it yet, only set the optical trigger to the leading edge (Now that i think about it, i think i probably set it to the following edge on accident which would probably give me a weaker spark ), nor have i adjusted the fuel mixture yet. I was planning on doing those as more of a final steps kinda thing, but i'm probably skipping over crucial running adjustments when i shouldn't be.

A tiny accumulator leak test should be ok for now, but it's only going to get worse. Fortunately they are still avail

A new accumulator is in my 'to buy list' of parts that is continuing to grow. Probably still available because i think every european manufacture had a K-Jet car or two, i've used my brothers Audi fox Bentley manual for some various fuel related things as that manual is a lot clearer than Haynes

Are you certain the meter piston/plunger in the fuel dist moves freely? fyi: If you ever remove the fuel dist; be aware the 2.0 piston/plunger does not have a retainer and can easily fall out. Have to put grease on it during installation so it does not fall out.

I'm not 100% certain that it moves freely, but the meter plate feels like it does.

fyi: originally there is a tiny filter under the injector line banjo bolts. These filters are very finicky about cleanliness.

I actually forgot to clean those filters, can they come out to be cleaned, or would that destroy them?

Edit: for now, to assist with t-shooting; you can disconnect and plug the vac advance and retard. *When that vac retard snaps open, the rpms decrease significantly and can cause confusion if you're not familiar with it's operation (assuming it's working correctly).

I'll have to try plugging the vac advance and retard. Since the rpms drop in what seems like two stages, that i think are the vac retard opening, and the aux air valve/air slide closing, i "think" they both work. I do have the air slide adjusted to be more open for easier starting, before i had to give it throttle to start and keep it running for about 30 seconds, right now i just turn the key.

[epmedia]

Sounds like you enjoy working on your car

If still equipped (have to dry-out the ports to see them): The little filters under the banjo bolts can be removed with a torx bit or 'trimmed' flat-head pocket size screw driver. I cannot say what sizes, it's just whatever fits that can grab the filter when giving it a gentle upward twist. They wont get messed up unless they are really stuck in there, or already messed up -they are suppose to fit just a little snug. Be aware there's probably debris lingering under the filters (if still equipped). You can clean them with spray-can carburetor cleaner.

[dups]

without reading through...you have a header so, the emissions delete has been done I'm guessing. We've solved a few problems by having people check the giant hole on the bottom of the intake(the EGR valve hose used to come from it; red hose). If the plug someone used is breaking up, you would have a large vac leak. But you did a smoke test and I can only assume smoke would get there...but ya never know, ya never never know.