2008 X3 fault codes P0335 and P1727 - troubleshooting

[triggerbrian]

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Yesterday morning my low oil light came on when I started my x3 but then went out once it warmed up and I left for work, didn't think much of it other than I better add a bit when I get home. When leaving from work and trying to start up it cranked for 5-10 seconds (this has never happened before, always starts right up). Then I had multiple lights on such as check engine, 4x4, and then the brake light also stayed on (after releasing the brake) and all lights were orange. I decided to try to drive home about 3 miles and the car mostly acted fine but I didn't push it and took it easy, very low rpm's. once home I checked everything and the oil was low so I filled it (I use Mobil 1 full synthetic 0w40 and it does burn off a bit, hopefully that isn't a sign of a major problem. I would say I have to add about .5 qt after 3-4k miles then I change it at about 7k miles). I also noticed I was a little low on coolant so I topped that off too. I started it back up and it fired right up and ran fine but check engine was still on so I went down to the auto parts store and had the codes read: P0335 - Crankshaft sensor error, and P1727 which I believe is a no-start error. I drove back home and the check engine light went out and the car seems to be running fine. In reading over some other forums tonight I'm not sure if I should do something else at this point. Should I replace the Crankshaft position sensor? or should I just wait to see if it happens again? could low oil lead to throwing that error code?

One other thing is I noticed a bit more buildup under the oil cap than I think was there before.
I recently changed locations where I work and instead of driving 30-40 minutes (18 miles) each way, now I only drive 3 miles and about 10-15 minutes and nothing faster than 40mph to work. I have read that in the cold months this can cause condensation buildup in and around the oil cap but could that be related in any way to the error codes?

It's cold and my garage is full so I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a long freezing weekend for me under the hood.

Today it was even colder out (about 10 degrees this morning) and I started the car right up with no problems, let it warm in the driveway about 10 minutes, drove to work and everything ran perfect. After work it started right up and I only warmed it a minute or two but it also ran just fine... Could the problems really be from low oil or was that just a coincidence? Should I have the battery tested? I have heard that low battery voltage could also cause weird error codes.

[MarcoZandrini]

Your crankshaft position sensor is likely going out. Have it replaced before it dies and leaves you stranded. The P1727 code doesn't result in anything.

As far as the mayo in the oil fill cap, that usually results from short trips. Take your car on a 20 miles or so high speed run on a weekly basis. That will ensure that the engine burns off the condensation in the engine.

[bmwdirtracer]

+1 to what Marco has told you. Replace the crank sensor, and drive the car longer distances.

Um, Alldata shows 3 hours to replace your crank sensor, which might just mean that the intake manifold has to be removed. Not fun.

[triggerbrian]

Thanks guys! I just ordered the part and will pick it up tomorrow morning and give it a go. I have off work tomorrow and at least it's going up to 40 degrees so its the best I could hope for in January. BTW it did the same thing today when trying to leave work. Do you think I did any damage driving home about 3 miles? I'll post an update after I get it done... I might do a video since I can't seem to find one on youtube of this repair for my model x3 for reference. I did read a thread that said the location is under the starter and you do have to remove all the intake stuff and it is still hard to see, the person in the thread used a mirror to find it.

[bmwdirtracer]

No promises, but try to cheat:

Four wheel drives are tough, but personally, I would damn sure try to do this from below, by braille. See, if you remove the intake manifold, you're going to break a couple of plastic crankcase vent pipes, and you'll end up with intake system leaks, and bigger problems. You'll end up taking everything apart again, after paying for smoke tests, and all kinds of hassles.

Oh yeah: YOU MUST USE ONLY A GENUINE BMW PART, NO AUTOZONE CHINESE CRAP!!!!!!

No, you will not be damaging anything, by driving it.

If you try this from below, you might even have to remove the front driveshaft. That's eight bolts. Make sure that you paint or otherwise mark the positions on each flange, so it goes back the same way; it really shouldn't matter, but marking it is easy. You might have to remove the aluminum underbody plate, half a dozen 16mm bolts.

By the way, you will need E-torx sockets. The crank sensor is held in with , um, an E-10, maybe an E-8 bolt. The driveshaft bolts will be E12, I think, maybe E-10. I don't know the exact sizes, because I own all of them, and just grab the one that works.

You might really want to consider having a BMW shop do this, if you're not experienced and well equipped. It's cold out there, and I wouldn't think of doing this on the ground, in January, in Pennsylvania.

[triggerbrian]

I really appreciate the info Chris! I have done quite a bit of work on all my cars since I was 16... I pretty much had to fix it myself because I couldn't afford to pay someone to. I have done everything from brakes, fuel pumps, drive shafts, full suspension, exhaust... I used to have a 2001 740iL and was told not to try the tie rod ends but I did it myself with no difficulty but I did draw the line when I started having transmission problems and decided it was time to move on and trade it in. This seems like a pretty involved job but I like the challenge so hopefully I can complete it myself and don't brake something that ends up costing me more in the long run. I have built a pretty good tool collection and my wife just got me a really nice 30gal dewalt 2 stage compressor and air tools to go with it, although there isn't much I'll be using that for with this repair (she got it for me when I was replacing the struts last summer around our 15 year anniversary)... but I'm not sure if I have all the torx sockets so I'll pick them up before I get started. That tip alone is going to save me a ton of time going back to the store in the middle of the repair. Thanks again, I'll let you know how it goes.

[triggerbrian]

So I started working at about 10am today, had to help my sister with her car (nissan versa) in the middle of working on my car (replaced the blower motor regulator). I started by trying to go from the bottom but gave up and went to taking the intake off... Let's just say I got frustrated and put things back together, tried a second time from the bottom, then called the dealer to price the repair... $600 so I looked a little more online for tips and about 7pm I went back down to the car which was all back together like I didn't do anything except brake a plastic clip or two. SUCCESS! well so far... In about 2 hours I got the intake manifold off and boy those clips were tough in this cold weather. I decided to stop for the night. I can clearly see the sensor now and will have that switched out in about 5 minutes but then I'll have to put everything else back. So had I just stuck with it the first time I would have only worked for about 2 hours at this point instead of 8! At least I know my car a lot better now.

One question before I finish up tomorrow after work, should I do anything else like cleaning or anything while everything is open. There is some carbon deposits around the intakes but I'm worried that cleaning them could do more harm if I knock some of the stuff into the cylinders.

I did some video's as I went along so once I get everything done I'll post it to youtube and put a link on here.

[MarcoZandrini]

I'd check the condition of the 2 hard plastic cooling pipes. See #6 & #8 in http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_2200. This diagram is for the 3l engine but I bet it's the same for the 3.5l engine.

[triggerbrian]

Thanks Marco, mine is actually the 3.0 so that diagram was perfect... Checked them and so far so good... they actually look as if the last owner may have replaced them already or they are just still in really good shape. The car had low miles on it when I got it about 2 years ago (62K then, now has 78k miles). It's raining tonight and I can use my wife's car for work tomorrow so I'm going to postpone the reassembly to tomorrow since I only work a short day.

[bmwdirtracer]

Sorry if I threw you a curve ball with the suggestion of looking at it from below, first.

All of this generation say to do this from above, and pay ~3 hours.....almost always, I do it from below in half an hour,,,but some 4 wheel drives are very tough, or impossible, from below, because of the diff, driveshaft, etc.

I can't tell you how many of those plastic vent pipes and suchlike I've broken, in the past, and had to go back in, because there was an intake system leak, so I try to avoid manifold removal with a passion.

I've got my fingers crossed that the rest of the job goes smoothly for you!

[triggerbrian]

I have to laugh at this point because everything I try something goes wrong... Last time I stopped once I was down to the sensor but didn't take the extra few minutes to put the new one on. Today I took the old one off and snapped the new one on, not bad... then I put the bolt in and got my torque wrench to make sure I didn't over tighten it but the thing is my torque wrench is a cheaper craftsman one and must not be very accurate at those light torques. Then at only about 8-10 lbs the unmistakable sound of metal snapping. I almost threw up. I had to walk away and gather my thoughts... I went back and looked and sure enough, I snapped the bolt right off. I was very lucky though because I was able to use a pointed screw driver and very carefully get the broken off part to turn and come out. So now being the weekend I have to wait till Monday to go back to the dealer to buy a new bolt. Thanks again for everyone's advice... my advice for everyone is to buy a good quality torque wrench and don't trust a cheap $20 craftsman one. Any chance somewhere other than a dealer might have that bolt and be open on Sunday's?

[bmwdirtracer]

Actually, no. According to realoem, that's an aluminum bolt.....which is why it broke:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_3732

The torque for aluminum bolts is always a very small value, plus an angle. You're never supposed to reuse them, either.

Funny, I don't remember that bolt as being aluminum, like, say, the water pump bolts and oil pan bolts. But really, I guess it has to be, since the others are.

BMW swears that you can't use steel bolts into the magnesium block, because of dissimilar metals causing corrosion. However, there are three things to say about this:
1) We've all used anti-seize for years, to prevent the exchange of ions and corrosion between steel and aluminum.
2) Porsche and old Volkswagens used steel bolts into magnesium, forever.
3) I know many BMW techs, both independents and at dealerships, who routinely substitute steel bolts in some locations.

My guess at the torque for an M6 aluminum bolt of this length (16mm) will be about 6 Nm plus 90 degrees. Personally, I just use a short 1/4" drive ratchet, and go 'till the bolt is snug. Snug is tight, tight is broke. In your situation, I'd just go to Napa or Autozone, and buy an M6 x 16mm steel bolt, and call it good.

[triggerbrian]

Chris, thanks so much for the advice. I went down to Advance Auto Parts as soon as I read your post and got a steel bolt, put some anti-seize on it and got on with putting everything back together.. It went mostly smooth and took me about 2 hours to complete.

I started the car and it took a little bit to turn over but it started. The same combo of lights are still on (orange brake, check engine, and 4x4). I let it warm up and took it for a short 2 mile drive staying close to my house just in case something went wrong. It seems to run smoother (and shift smoother) but maybe not as much power... also, when I turned the car off and started it back up it took longer than normal to turn over (about 4-5 seconds). Prior to these problems it used to turn right over in 1-2 seconds. Do you think this will resolve on its own once I have the codes cleared tomorrow or did I mess something up during the repair?

I plan on taking it on a longer trip tomorrow, 15 miles or so round trip and see how it does.

- - - Updated - - -

I found my obd2 and cleared the codes but they are coming back... Still not starting right up and the exact same 2 codes are coming back. I'm wondering if there was something else wrong the whole time. But I have no idea what else to check.

[MarcoZandrini]

Download OBDFusion to you smartphone. Buy the proper interface device (iOS: wifi; android: BT) from Amazon. Ensue it sez "fulfilled by Amazon." This app will allow you to see a bunch of stuff.

[bmwdirtracer]

Where did you buy the sensor, and who manufactured it?

[triggerbrian]

I got it through advanced auto parts. I'll have to check when I get home who was the manufacturer. I know third party isn't as good but I've never had something just plain not work like this. I just can't afford to always buy dealer parts, although anything that takes this long I'm not taking chances with anymore. Oh well, I'm at the dealer right now getting a dealer part and the correct bolt, lol. I'll be a pro at this when I'm done. Too bad the temp is now in the teens.

[shadowpuck]

are you a member of the bmw car club? if so, you'll get a discount at the dealership on parts. there's also several vendors such as fcp euro, rm european, and others where you can order BMW parts at a very competitive price.

my own experience has been when it comes to sensor type parts in a bmw, the systems just do not seem to tolerate anything other than BMW stuff. i've found a few exceptions, mainly o2 sensors - as long as they are Bosch OE type sensors. certainly hope fixing the problem is as simple as putting the new parts in place!

[triggerbrian]

So, yesterday I decided I needed my garage back so I took last night to clear and organize my garage so I could fit my car in it... why did I wait so long to do this, it's amazing to be able to work on my car in the garage finally.

Tonight I got home from work and got started. I'm pretty much a pro at all the hoses and plugs by now so it wasn't too bad. I took some more videos and will edit them into one and post it on youtube, then I'll post the link here for anyone to watch if you want.

After noticing the sensor I got from advance auto was made by continental (the same brand on the BMW one) I was a little worried that I would have the same problem.

I was able to get the whole job done in less than 3 hours! I started her up and she started like normal and the service engine soon light was out. However the 4x4 and brake light was still on in the orange color. I decided to take it for a test drive and before I got out of my driveway all fault lights were out and I only went for a quick 2 mile drive (we got snow today and I didn't feel like getting into an accident right after fixing the car). Everything seems to be just fine. I have a cheap bluetooth code reader (I found it!) and torque for my tablet so I cleared the codes and all is well.

Thanks to everyone that gave me advice and hopefully the video I put together can help anyone else having a similar issue.

[bmwdirtracer]

GREAT JOB, SIR!

You are magnificent credit to all the guys who want to continue working on cars that require the highest level of technology....and still do it yourself, as much as possible.

Thanks for following a researched, and scientific response, and sharing your findings with others at this forum!

Chris

[txtorquemade]

Bumping this thread ... just cause!!

Nice to see a good outcome and Chris's continued good advice and a determined wrencher work it out!! Outstanding!!

[R002]

Congrats on a job well done.

I have the same problem with my wife's X3 and was wondering if you are able to post the video you took and provide a link to it. I have ordered the sensor and will be working on replacing it soon.

Thanks in advance and cheers.

So, yesterday I decided I needed my garage back so I took last night to clear and organize my garage so I could fit my car in it... why did I wait so long to do this, it's amazing to be able to work on my car in the garage finally.

Tonight I got home from work and got started. I'm pretty much a pro at all the hoses and plugs by now so it wasn't too bad. I took some more videos and will edit them into one and post it on youtube, then I'll post the link here for anyone to watch if you want.

After noticing the sensor I got from advance auto was made by continental (the same brand on the BMW one) I was a little worried that I would have the same problem.

I was able to get the whole job done in less than 3 hours! I started her up and she started like normal and the service engine soon light was out. However the 4x4 and brake light was still on in the orange color. I decided to take it for a test drive and before I got out of my driveway all fault lights were out and I only went for a quick 2 mile drive (we got snow today and I didn't feel like getting into an accident right after fixing the car). Everything seems to be just fine. I have a cheap bluetooth code reader (I found it!) and torque for my tablet so I cleared the codes and all is well.

Thanks to everyone that gave me advice and hopefully the video I put together can help anyone else having a similar issue.