Blackknight530i’s 530i6 6-speed swap build thread

[blackknight530i]

If it's there regardless of whether the clutch is pressed in or out, it's probably not the throwout bearing. Is it loud enough to capture the whine on video?

I'll try and see if I can record it.

[angeleye540i]

The nice tall 6th gear ratio is the only saving grace to having a 3.15 m5 LSD attached to my 420g... roadtrip- fuel economy wise... but Man is it fun

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Awesome work, Paul and Brian! Sorry 'bout the ripped lip, Paul. was wondering if they stitched you up, usually, the doc's don't stitch up trauma like that a day later, used to think it was, 45 minutes after the screw up, stitches cannot be applied, but I might be wrong. Must have been hard driving home, shifting gears, not being able to smile about the accomplishment.
Was thinking about the gear whine, those needle bearings in the bell housing, were they free spinning? Maybe some debris from being open sitting at Adam's shop?

[blackknight530i]

Awesome work, Paul and Brian! Sorry 'bout the ripped lip, Paul. was wondering if they stitched you up, usually, the doc's don't stitch up trauma like that a day later, used to think it was, 45 minutes after the screw up, stitches cannot be applied, but I might be wrong. Must have been hard driving home, shifting gears, not being able to smile about the accomplishment.
Was thinking about the gear whine, those needle bearings in the bell housing, were they free spinning? Maybe some debris from being open sitting at Adam's shop?

So, I went the day after to my local urgent care and they gave me the option for stitches or glue. I opted for glue as I figured it would be a lot quicker and hopefully would work ok. Well, it wasn't even a full day that the glue separated from one part of my lip on the top while I was eating dinner (not easy). The part I was most worried about seems to still be glued, so I'm not going to go back unless it gets worse. It's not actually bleeding anymore, so it should be fine. The part that came unglued looked bad when they glued it (a chunk of skin had been cut off, but it actually closed up on its own pretty quickly, so while the nurse cringed at seeing it, I didn't really think it was that bad.

The drive home was very stressful for the simple fact that I was trying to listen to any abnormal noises or anything that might indicate something was wrong, so smiling wasn't even considered yet anyways.

As for the needle bearings, they were all free spinning and we cleaned the entire thing before installing on the transmission. Highly doubt it's due to debris in the transmission. It sounds more like the clutch area, but I'm not too worried about it. Also, I didn't get the bellhousing from Adam since he doesn't deal with M3s.

[TerraPhantm]

If the clutch is grabbing okay, and the noise isn't getting worse, I'd be inclined to let it go. Maybe it'll quiet down with a few miles.

[blackknight530i]

If the clutch is grabbing okay, and the noise isn't getting worse, I'd be inclined to let it go. Maybe it'll quiet down with a few miles.

Seems to be grabbing just fine, but I still need to get used to the significantly lighter clutch pedal in this car vs my e38 with S62 and M5 clutch. I'm guessing the pressure plate on the M5 is much stiffer than the M3, though the clutch disk, throwout bearing, release fork, etc. are all identical part numbers. I'm hoping it gets quieter, but we'll see.

That reminds me, I still need to record a video of the sound

[TerraPhantm]

Maybe try a different slave cylinder. The clutch pedal in the E46 M3 itself is stiffer than any E39 I've driven.

[blackknight530i]

Maybe try a different slave cylinder. The clutch pedal in the E46 M3 itself is stiffer than any E39 I've driven.

I'm saying the e46 M3 slave cylinder feels a lot lighter than the e39 M5 slave.

Video is uploading and will be posted shortly. Also, the sound is only when the clutch pedal is not depressed, goes away when it is pressed.

[TerraPhantm]

I'm saying the e46 M3 slave cylinder feels a lot lighter than the e39 M5 slave.

Video is uploading and will be posted shortly. Also, the sound is only when the clutch pedal is not depressed, goes away when it is pressed.

Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised if the M5 pressure plate is stiffer (lot more torque after all), but I wouldn't think the M3 setup should feel excessively light in your car. Clutch masters are the same too. I imagine the E39 pedal may have more mechanical advantage than the E46 pedal. I cannot find what the bore diameter of the E46 slave is though, so it's hard to say what experiments would be worthwhile. I also don't know if a new clutch initially feels lighter than a broken in clutch or not.

Sound only when the pedal is not depressed pretty much rules out throwout bearing. Leaves input shaft bearing and perhaps pilot bearing.

[blackknight530i]

Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised if the M5 pressure plate is stiffer (lot more torque after all), but I wouldn't think the M3 setup should feel excessively light in your car. Clutch masters are the same too. I imagine the E39 pedal may have more mechanical advantage than the E46 pedal. I cannot find what the bore diameter of the E46 slave is though, so it's hard to say what experiments would be worthwhile.

Sound only when the pedal is not depressed pretty much rules out throwout bearing. Leaves input shaft bearing and perhaps pilot bearing.

Well, I wouldn't say it's extremely light, in fact it's very similar to Brian's M5 clutch in his wagon with the S62, but I think he has the 540i slave cylinder and I have the M5 slave on my e38. Both have the same clutch and engine, so it might be something wrong with my e38 or it's the M5 slave cylinder that is different. It does have a 23mm stroke, whatever that means since it's not listed on any of the other slave cylinders on realoem.

Video of the sound:

[auaq]

The general rule of thumb is that when the clutch is not pressed (clutch engaged) the input shaft is making the noises. If the clutch pedal is pressed all the way to the floor (clutch disc disengaged fully) then it is your pilot bearing. Now if you start pressing down on the pedal 1/4 to 1/2 way, and immediately you notice a whining sound, then that will be your throw out bearing.

[blackknight530i]

Also, the pilot bearing is a brand new LuK bearing and we checked it after the snafu with the guide tube and it turned freely and felt good. As for the input shaft bearing, I'll likely just have to live with it if that's the case, because I'm not planning on taking it apart again for a very long time. How often do those input shaft bearings actually go out? This transmission only had about 95k miles and was a SMG, so I wouldn't think it would be possible to abuse it that bad this early. I also don't think the swapped bellhousing would have anything to do with it since the only thing it has that comes in contact with the input shaft is the outer rollers and the seal. I guess it's possible that the outer roller balls could have had something wrong with them since it came from a different transmission altogether that had a bad 3rd gear. We were able to turn the roller balls easily though, so not sure on that.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess we should have tried to swap the rollers from the SMG bellhousing or my 540i transmission bellhousing before installing it, but I had no way of knowing that it would be an issue. I'm also not sure how to remove the bearing.

[philly98540]

Sounds like it may be tranny input, but I'm just guessing.

Can you do some vid with clutch pedal pressed in/out varying amounts?

[TerraPhantm]

Also, the pilot bearing is a brand new LuK bearing and we checked it after the snafu with the guide tube and it turned freely and felt good. As for the input shaft bearing, I'll likely just have to live with it if that's the case, because I'm not planning on taking it apart again for a very long time. How often do those input shaft bearings actually go out? This transmission only had about 95k miles and was a SMG, so I wouldn't think it would be possible to abuse it that bad this early. I also don't think the swapped bellhousing would have anything to do with it since the only thing it has that comes in contact with the input shaft is the outer rollers and the seal. I guess it's possible that the outer roller balls could have had something wrong with them since it came from a different transmission altogether that had a bad 3rd gear. We were able to turn the roller balls easily though, so not sure on that.

They don't go out often, but it's possible the clearances were a bit different between the two bell housings. Could be the clearance is a bit tight/loose now. Can't say how long it would last in that state. What kind of transmission fluid are you using?

For the clutch effort, it could be that the E38 clutch master is different enough to require different effort.

Edit: Maybe this comment will shed some light: http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/sho...5&postcount=70

[blackknight530i]

They don't go out often, but it's possible the clearances were a bit different between the two bell housings. Could be the clearance is a bit tight/loose now. Can't say how long it would last in that state. What kind of transmission fluid are you using?

For the clutch effort, it could be that the E38 clutch master is different enough to require different effort.

Edit: Maybe this comment will shed some light: http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/sho...5&postcount=70

I see. I didn't see any shims and I don't see any on RealOEM to have even put in. I'm guessing that it's in the too loose situation right now, in which case I'm probably ok, wouldn't you agree? I'm not putting anywhere near as much torque down as a S54 would be. I guess I could pay to have my SMG bellhousing converted to 6MT and sell the 6MT one after, that way I would know that it was the right preload for this transmission. I'm kind of glad I haven't sent it off yet, but I also would not be looking forward to doing a transmission R&R again. I know I would not want to be doing it soon. That said, I feel confident enough that we could do it again without too much effort. Now that we know the starter will bolt up easily, I would say we could have it swapped out in about 3 hours or so. Add about 30 minutes to swap the bellhousings and about 24 hours to wait for the RTV to set.

Also, I'm using Redline ATF for the fluid. It's the same that Brian is using in his 420g. The sound really seems to be coming from outside a fluid filled area, but I'm no expert. I thought it was pretty common for SMGs to be converted to 6MTs. I hadn't read about anyone worrying about preload of the input bearing.

[TerraPhantm]

Yeah I haven't heard of too many people having issues either. I imagine in most cases the tolerances are close enough. I would agree that I'd leave it alone for now. If it becomes louder over time, then I'd bite the bullet and pull the transmission and bell housing. The input shaft bearing is lubricated with the transmission fluid as far as I'm aware. I've been the OEM stuff (MTF-LT2) in my 420g with good results; change it every other valve adjustment (roughly 50k miles).

For what it's worth, this guy had two of his M3s making whining noises without any apparent issues: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...72&postcount=8

Next time I start my M3 I'll be more mindful for noises. S54 itself makes a whining noise (high pressure vanos pump), so I might have always missed something.

[blackknight530i]

Yeah I haven't heard of too many people having issues either. I imagine in most cases the tolerances are close enough. I would agree that I'd leave it alone for now. If it becomes louder over time, then I'd bite the bullet and pull the transmission and bell housing. The input shaft bearing is lubricated with the transmission fluid as far as I'm aware. I've been the OEM stuff (MTF-LT2) in my 420g with good results; change it every other valve adjustment (roughly 50k miles).

For what it's worth, this guy had two of his M3s making whining noises without any apparent issues: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...72&postcount=8

Next time I start my M3 I'll be more mindful for noises. S54 itself makes a whining noise (high pressure vanos pump), so I might have always missed something.

I went out earlier and started up my e38 and well, the noise is there as well, just a lot fainter and the engine noise is a bit louder, so it's harder to hear, so maybe it is just a noisy gearbox. I'm not going to worry about it. I'll just turn the music up a bit louder

On the drive to the gym tonight, I started having a bit more fun with the car. It really is a quick car and I don't really notice it being any slower than it was with the auto by having all that extra weight. I'm still breaking in the clutch (about 200 miles or so now), so I'm not going too crazy with it, but I'm definitely enjoying it. I really need a clutch stop though, because the grab point is not where it is on my other car and I tend to push the clutch in way further than I need to, causing the shifting to be a bit jerky on occasion. I have the hole in the carpet with the threaded piece behind it, just need to put one in. My e38 didn't have the threaded piece or the whole in the carpet, so it's kind of hard to put it in. I'd need to remove one from a 540i6 and weld it in or something.

[mcgnms]

The noise is the transmission input shaft. The 420g will make a similar noise when its input bearing goes bad too.

[blackknight530i]

The noise is the transmission input shaft. The 420g will make a similar noise when its input bearing goes bad too.

So, what's the fix?

[mcgnms]

Not sure how hard it is to replace or if its feasible.

[blackknight530i]

Not sure how hard it is to replace or if its feasible.

Are you saying it's the shaft itself, or the bearing? I didn't see any pitting on the inner bearing race and the balls moved smoothly in the bellhousing. If it's the shaft, I'll replace the transmission when it dies.

[mcgnms]

I'm saying its the bearing. Perhaps its still good for a while and just a bit dry/noisy. Maybe it can be re-greased? Not sure on this one.

[blackknight530i]

I'm saying its the bearing. Perhaps its still good for a while and just a bit dry/noisy. Maybe it can be re-greased? Not sure on this one.

No grease, it's lubricated by transmission fluid as TerraPhantm mentioned before. Like I said before, I'm not really worried about it unless it gets worse.

[auaq]

Yeah, I say keep driving the car. Hopefully it may quieten down over time. We don't know when was the last time this gearbox was used and for how long it sat unused. As long as the noise doesn't get louder anymore I think you should be fine. The only thing is that whine is going to annoy you all the time and mostly at low speeds only. Have you tried asking Randy about this issue? Maybe he could help you out.

[blackknight530i]

Yeah, I say keep driving the car. Hopefully it may quieten down over time. We don't know when was the last time this gearbox was used and for how long it sat unused. As long as the noise doesn't get louder anymore I think you should be fine. The only thing is that whine is going to annoy you all the time and mostly at low speeds only. Have you tried asking Randy about this issue? Maybe he could help you out.

It only annoys me when I'm listening for it and before the music starts up. I turn the music up even a bit and it's quiet. I also don't hear it when cruising, so it really isn't that bad.

Also, the transmission was run like a few months or so before I bought it. If there is any question on condition of that bearing, it's likely in the 6mt bellhousing I got. If I do anything, I'll just get the smg bellhousing modified and swap it out at a later date.