Hmmmmmmmm....... Remind me to stay far FAR away from a rallyX event... I have enough trouble already.
Yeah in regards to the "stalling out" with AC, my guess is the auxiliary and main fan were running at same time. These cars get tired alternators after the 100k mark...if the alternator isn't tired then it may be because of the Bosch 80A alternator not being able to take the surge. You could upgrade to the 140A version too.
In regards to the skid plates and transmission mount, what weights are you adding? And what negatives, such as time, is assumed as a result?
Jesus man! Rough weekend for you. But we all have them, especially with a brand new build. Lots to learn, lots to fix. Hooray racing! hahaha.
Your Bilsteins look like they are mono tube. In a mono tube, you have the shaft and piston on the top sitting in all the fluid. Then below the fluid is the divider. This separates the nitrogen charge from the fluid. I had a set of Bilsteins apart just last week. There are several seals around the shaft at the top. If you had no fluid leak out, and you were able to get everything tapped back into place, you are good to go!
What caused it?!?!
The only thing I can think of is that the shock hit full droop, HARD.
Let's fix it!
On my road race cars that are running Bilsteins, I use a secondary cap on the top of the shock housing that actually screws onto the housing. I'll see if I can find a pic. This provides extra security to the top seal. Another option could be droop limit straps. Like offroad trucks.
Also, try and rig up some sort of dust boot, otherwise those shaft seals aren't going to last long.
Well, since I wasn't able to install a lower temp fan switch with the electric fan, I'm not sure it EVER kicked on. If what I've been reading is correct, the lower temp fan switch I want is the one from a 318, right? Can anyone explain WHY I need a lower temp fan switch when converting from the OEM fan to electric? I'm going to buy one, I just want to understand why I now need it.
I'll be on the lookout for a 140a alternator. Is it a bolt in mod for cars that come with an 80a?
Also, one thought occurred to me last night when I was looking over the car. After I installed the cooling system, I never reinstalled the air duct for the alternator, which I have been running at all time before this. Could that extra heat from the engine bay have caused the alternator to not charge as well?
I'm confused by your question about weights I'm adding to the skid plate and trans mount. Could you clarify? Are you asking how much of a weight penalty I assumed with the newer, heavier parts? I'm guessing the trans mount weighs 2-3 pounds more than stock. The skid plate and u brace probably weigh something like 20 pounds combined.
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Yeah, such is racing. Hopefully most of this stuff can get sorted out after a few events.
I would think what caused the damage to the rear shock wouldn't have been hitting full droop, but rather full compression and bottoming out when the spring fell off its perch and I kept going over bumps. Right?
If you could get me more info or pics on your setup for the secondary cap, it would be greatly appreciated! I don't think I'll need droop straps, as I make sure the springs have some preload even at full droop so they can't wriggle around.
I've heard conflicting thoughts on the subject of dust boots. Some people say they just trap crap in there, making wear worse. Is there a guaranteed way of keeping them sealed up perfectly?
I've always been intrigued by rally racing, it's near the top for most fun/entertaining "sports" I think. I've seen a few setups where guys basically strip the car and add a shit ton of reinforcement and skid plates; and I've always wondered what type of weights are assumed from all the added steel...does it net out to more than what was stripped out? Or is there a strategy to getting it still lighter by changing some of the panel mods to aluminum? I understand rally normally has a passenger, so obviously you'd be lugging 150+ lbs around too. It's not like our engines have the best bottom end, so the hair pins slow-and-go tend to be the worst time killer, especially with added steel and passenger; so I was just inquiring about how the weight affects the times in rally, but you haven't added a huge amount.
If the shock was to bottom out, it would force that top cap back into place.
Here is the internals of a pretty standard monotube. On the bottom of the shaft is the valving, sitting on top of that is a droop limiter, not all shocks have an extra spacers like this. Then you have the main shaft seal body in black. On the bottom of that is a small amount of rubber to prevent damage when the shock hits full droop. Above that is a small secondary dust shield to extend the life of the main shaft seal.
If the shock was to go to full extension/droop, you can see that all the weight of the suspension and wheel/tire would be trying to pull the shaft seal body out of the housing. This particular shock has a ring clip that goes above it and snaps into the housing to prevent it from pulling out.
damper.jpg
This is the Bilstein Double Adjustable shock with the top cap screwed on. Looks exactly like yours underneath.
ShockCap.jpg
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When I can run one, I do. Sometimes is hard to fit inside the coil over spring and stuff like that. For the most part, just making sure it is tight around the shaft at the top is all you need to worry about. Zip ties, o-rings, whatever it takes. It being open at the bottom will let anything that does manage to get in there to fall back out. If nothing else, you are preventing the shaft from getting nicked by a rock or something that would lead to the seal going bad.
Yes, I think your shocks are just fine.
I shouldn't have said Exactly like yours underneath lol. Your threads are much different. That cap came directly from bilstein, but so did the housings. Might want to bug the people you bought them off of and have them look around.
Alright, I did some work today trying to chase down the stalling at idle problem, and while things have improved, it still has trouble idling with the AC on. I need some more ideas here!
Oh, before I get started with the important stuff, I fixed one part that fell off at the race: the cover for the back of the DS headlight. It looks like the clip on the headlight is broken, so the tabs don't have anything to bite onto. I can't have water getting into my precious HID headlight/projectors, so zip ties to the rescue!
All fixed
So the first thing I wanted to do was to clean out the idle control valve (ICV). After much wrangling around the M50 manifold, I was able to extract the ICV.
I was greeted by plenty of oil when I removed the TB:
ICV out:
It wasn't stuck by any means, but the flap had some resistance. After about half a can of carb cleaner a bunch of crap came out and the flap moved freely and smoothly. Hooray! While I was digging around in that area I noticed that the upper hose going into the ICV was a little too large, and I have a feeling the hose clamp wasn't tightened fully before, so I spent a long time just trying to get the damn thing on there tight. It would have really helped to have an extra 1-2" of slack on the upper hose, but such is life. Once I got that on, I noticed that the hose going to the CCV had slipped off the fitting. I can't be sure if I did it today or if it had come off during the race, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had been off since the race. The problem with this hose is that room is extremely tight under the IM, and so ever since I got the car, the hose didn't have a clamp on it. This might have been fine for normal people/driving, but after thinking about it for two seconds I realized I needed to get a clamp on the thing one way or another. After about another hour or trying all my tools, I was able to get a hose clamp on it and it's now very secure. Success! I'm sure between those two hoses there were some vacuum leaks before, so with the ICV nice and clean I had high hopes for the car.
This u shaped hose is the one I'm referring to:
While I was putting things back together I decided to remove the throttle blade from the ASC/TC throttle body. It came out easy enough, and I finished reassembling everything. Even though I left the ASC hiring harness connected, it still threw up a light on the dash. How does it know that I removed the throttle blade?
Normally when I start the car when it's "cold" (a relative term in a DC summer) it rocks back and forth for about 20 seconds and then smooths out. When I started it up today, that was pretty much gone! I could be mistaken, but the rattle from my lightweight flywheel seems to be reduced as well, and the car just seems to be that little bit smoother when idling. Hooray! I ran some errands and the car seemed great! I then decided to see what would happen when I turned the AC on. At first, all was well, but when I got down to idle the revs dropped and the car shuttered. The oil pressure light came on as well, but it never actually stalled out, and the radio didn't cut out either. With AC off, things were better.
So here's what I'm left with:
-My VDO voltage gauge reads 14v at idle
-The car struggles to idle with AC on, almost stalls but doesn't
-When I roll the windows up or down at idle the revs drop and the car shutters
-This problem began on the drive home from the race last week
I'm not quite sure what to make of this. The alternator (which I verified as being an 80a unit) seems to be charging fine, but it struggles with seemingly minor loads. Since the problems occur even with AC off, I think I can rule out that system as the problem. The ICV is working great, and there are definitely no vacuum leaks. Maybe I should upgrade to the 140a alternator and see what happens. It will be a good thing to have, and I can get new ones on Rockauto for $110! What do you guys think?
I get the same shutter with the light weight flywheel and I'm on the 80A too with AC. My windows up and down also cause rpm drop. I've always wondered about the larger alternator in this circumstance.
Well, with RomRaider you can totally disable your ASC, and raise your idle speeds (with and without A/C). Just a thought, I know it might seem like a band aid.
Sure, RomRaider is a community developed tuning software originally for the Subaru guys. It uses the basic tuning interface software that includes a logger screen, and then "definition" files for different versions of ECUs or in our case DMEs.
Recently, some geniuses who like E36s started developing the definitions for the DME 41.0, 41.1, and 41.2. I've been playing with it on my POS '97 328i that has the DME MS41.1 ID60. I'm not sure on this part, but I **think** your car would have the DME MS41.2, which has the most developed definition file, and the 41.2 is considered to be the best of the bunch. Many people who have lower numbered versions flash the entire 41.2 tune into their DME to gain its features. This is a bit of work though, since you have to move over the data from a lot of your maps into the 41.2 tune (.BIN file).
One downside of RomRaider for us Bimmer guys is that so far there isn't an actual tuning forum for it yet, there is only a "developing the definitions and reverse engineering the software" forum, so it can be a little difficult to come up with "how to get started" and "how to use it" information for the bimmers. And it is a little different than with a Subaru. I was asking around on the forum if there was a BMW specific "Getting Started Thread" or something like that, and caused a bit of a stir. What it boiled down to is that when I gain a sufficient level of proficiency with it, I intend to make a video or something to help bimmer guys get started with it.
Here is the main forum page for us:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=42
And here is a wiki page where the guys have started to compile information for users (as opposed to developers):
https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/
The two things you will need that cost a little money besides a laptop are the software for reading and flashing your DME, which also corrects checksums as it flashes new tunes in:
https://sites.google.com/site/openms...s41-flash-tool
And a generic knockoff cable for the flashing, something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...232RL&_sacat=0
I'll work on putting together a quick little explanation of setting up the actual RomRaider software in the next post.
Thanks for the comprehensive answer! I'm not interested in doing any of that stuff myself, that's just too far over my head, but it's good to know there are options out there.
There's a local E36 guy who I bought my diff from who apparently can tune the car using Tuner Pro. He says he can load up a map for an S52 car with M50 manifold for $100, and can revert back to stock at any time. He says he's done 20+ cars, and I'm talking with one guy who has his tune on his race car for over 3 years without a problem, so I'm interested to see what he can do. Here's what he said: "For the m50 manifold I adjust vanos point, ignition timing, and fuel. As well as bump your idle, remove the speed limiter, and go up to a 7k rpm limit". Does anyone know anything about Tuner Pro and its results?
The first thing you need to do to run RomRaider is go to this following page, and download your version for either windows or linux:
http://www.romraider.com/RomRaider/Download
You also need a sufficiently new version of Java Runtime Environment. If you're having trouble, you can update your JRE here:
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/ja...ads/index.html
Once you install RomRaider, and maybe a new version of JRE, you need to install the "definition" file for our cars. This file is where we differentiate from the main RomRaider community, in that we have to get one from our bimmer specific geniuses instead of using one from the main RomRaider forum which caters mainly to Subarus. The most recent version at the time I'm writing this is XML version v0.43, and can be found here:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/downl...e.php?id=26717
You should always try to use the most up to date XML file, since it contains the latest, most developed information. The first post in this thread will keep up to date:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...p?f=42&t=10695
To install and use that XML file within RomRaider, follow these instructions:
- Save the attached XML file to any User directory (not Program Files).
- Run RomRaider and select “ECU Definitions” → “ECU Definition Manager” from the menu bar.
- If any older definitions files are listed, select each file and click “Remove”.
- Click “Add” and select the location of the XML file attached.
- Click “Save”.
And this part is especially important when you are working on your new tune and wonder exactly what a certain table does:
Open a table and go to View => Table Properties to read the description of what that table does and how to tune it.
BUT, we aren't quite there yet! In order to alter the tune file for your car, first we need to get a tune to work on. There are two basic options, either read the tune from your DME (the one I prefer, because why wouldn't you just start with what is already in your own DME?), or download a tune (known as a ROM) from a car similar to yours from this thread:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...p?f=42&t=11338
You can VERY EASILY use the MS41 Flash Tool, listed previously and also known as "Chipster's Program/Application" or something like that, to read your current tune from your DME. However, to flash new tunes into your DME through the OBD2 port, you may need to run a jumper wire across the wires for pins 14 and 18 under your 20pin diagnostic connector. I have had to do this with both of my cars, but they are '97s, and I think there was some time after that where it was not necessary any more. Anyway, if a tune will not "stick" when you try to flash it in, you need to do this procedure:
https://sites.google.com/site/openms...1/enable-write
I think that is the basic rundown on what it takes to get RomRaider set up to be able to alter the tune in your DME, pretty much to your heart's content. It probably seems like a lot of stuff to do, but if you just work your way through it I think you will find that it isn't that bad. Please let me know what else I need to flesh out, and maybe this will help me to create that "BMW E36 Specific Getting Started with RomRaider Guide."
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The guys on the RomRaider forum seem to have abandoned Tuner Pro. Honestly, this stuff isn't hard, and then you have full control of everything yourself without having to deal with some other dude (and pay him).
One cool thing I just did with the help of the RomRaider guys was to widen the "throw a code" parameters for the rear O2 sensors, and I ran the analog output from my AEM wideband AFR gauge into the DME through one of the rear O2 sensor signal wires. So now I can log my actual AFRs right through the DME, which makes it pretty easy to make accurate tune adjustments with RomRaider. Pretty awesome.
Ok, more updates! But first, a question: Can someone explain why these cars require a lower temp fan switch when you convert to an electric fan?
I just got back from taking the car to Autozone and Advance Auto Parts and had both places do a full electrical system test, and both tests came back as passing. CCA for the battery is 730, and it shows about 695. The battery is over three years old. When I got home, I let the car idle in the driveway and turned on the AC. Surprisingly, the idle seemed to be fine, and it never tried to stall out. I do get a lot more flywheel chatter with the AC on (which goes away when I push the clutch pedal down), but aside from that my idle problems seem to have improved or disappeared. I'm wondering if the car needed time to adjust for a working ICV and no vacuum leaks. That's probably it for this weekend, now I'm just waiting on parts to arrive!
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Wow, another great post, thank you! Do I need programming experience to do any of this? I'm most interested in making adjustments to compensate for the M50 manifold and lightweight flywheel (just raise idle?). This all does sound pretty cool though. I assume with enough knowledge you could do things like adjust timing/fuel maps, and adjust VANOS? I'm guessing you see little value in off the shelf tunes, like the ones from Shark kit from Turner ($350), WAR Kit from Miller ($400), Epic Motorsports tune ($350), or the Active Autowerke tune ($350).
Last edited by 95maxrider; 08-21-2016 at 12:01 PM.
You don't need any programming experience for any of that basic stuff. It's a simple, quite intuitive interface for normal tuning functions like that.
To do the custom stuff I mentioned about my rear O2 sensors I had to alter a little of the hex code according to instructions I was given. It turned out to be very easy, but that sort of thing is beyond what you would have to do. If you did want to do something like that, I could help you get it done.
I'm starting a new thread in the Engine Tuning forum here to help people get started with RomRaider, and to dial in my explanation.
Why they require a low temp switch? I have an e fan on high switch only, entire stock circuit bypassed. I believe the question you have also applies to why our cars have soft on and soft off for the insides lights....same thing along the lines of having a large OBC unit with 15 worthless buttons, of which I wish I could delete.
Has anyone attempted to create a piggy back obc delete setup? The obc is just another dme onboard spring peripheral data
Full throttle tuning really always needs to be done using accurate data from the AFR during a full throttle pull. The narrow band O2 sensors from the factory are only useful right at stoich 14.7:1 AFR. So, that means that you can put in new plugs, do a full throttle pull, kill the engine immediately and read the plugs. Reading plugs for AFR tuning with unleaded fuel is difficult though, so it's really best by far to have a wideband. Either you can install one yourself and do road/track tuning, or if you go to a dyno. A dyno will often have one you can plug in, but unless you have an extra bung for them to screw into ahead of your catalytic converters, they will probably stick a sniffer up your tailpipe and use an educated opinion of how the AFR they are reading is being effected by your converters.
With RomRaider Logger you can log AFRs as I did it, or through a different port on your laptop (I haven't done it that way, since I thought my way was more elegant).
I used the stuff I wrote in your thread here to start a new thread in the Engine Tuning forum:
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...Specific-Guide
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Well, I had a lot of the links messed up somehow in that writeup at first. I think I have them straightened out now. One guy who looked at it says you need to be a forum member on the RomRaider forum to download anything from it. Let me know if you want to try it and I will make the files available for you until you can get signed up on the forum. (assuming you decide you want to give it a try)
If you just want the ASC light to disappear, you can snip the wires from the ABS module that go to the ASC TB and put a resistor across them. More on that here. Note that with nothing connected, my ABS was disabled. Once I added the resistor I got ABS back.
I've read a couple threads about fully removing the ASC system, but I couldn't figure out exactly how it would affect the rear ABS. Here are some quotes I saved for reference:
"The only way to delete the Traction Control without deleting the cars ability to apply the rear brakes is to leave the restrictive traction control throttle body in and just remove the throttle plate in it."
and
"If you leave the actuator in the car, and still hooked up, then yes, the ABS will still work. If you disconnect the actuator, and DONT add the resistor, THAT's when you will have issues with the ABS."
So that's why I just removed the throttle plate. Well, that and I didn't feel like spending money on a new intake boot and ICV hose from a Z3. Unfortunately, even just removing the blade somehow set of the light in the dash board. How in the world does it know I removed the blade? The connector is still plugged in! I'm no so much bothered by the light, but I do want to make sure the rear half of my ABS still works. OBD 2 E36s have 4 channel ABS, right?
If I completely remove the ASC throttle body and wire up the resistor, will that completely fool the system, allowing rear ABS to still function? I've found ABS to be quite useful at rally-x!
I would bet that without the throttle plate to stop it, the throttle shaft is closing too far and you're getting a throttle position error. Just a guess, but it's all I can think of. If all you have is a position error, the ABS is probably still functional even though the light is on. I added the resistor and rewired the ASC light to my MegaSquirt so I'm oblivious to any ABS errors unless I pull codes from the module itself.
Hey guys, I need some help figuring out what to do with the droop/limiter straps I ordered for the rear suspension!
The helpful guys over at Vorshlag recommended I get some limiter straps to make sure my rear springs never unseat themselves, and since they're pretty cheap, I figured it would be worth it.
I ended up getting the basic pair from Race Ready:
0e545011_clevis640x480.jpg
I'm planning on bolting it up to the lower shock bolt, but I'm not sure where I can attach the upper point to.
Here are two threads about limiter straps on E30s/E36s:
Link 1
Link 2
And here are some pics of what others have done:
strap.jpg
But apparently that upper hook rips out very easily, so I need to keep looking....
I believe this is an E36:
dsc00059.jpg
dsc00056.jpg
It looks like a bent piece of metal sandwiched between the upper shock mount and the body. This seems like a better solution.
I guess it will kind of depend on how my straps end up being designed, but what do you guys think? Should I make a little bracket that attaches to the upper shock mount? Or should I have something welded on to the body and use that point instead?
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