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Thread: E36 M3 RallyCross build!

  1. #251
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    93 325is
    my assumption is that its a older style. the FX ones have holes yes but its also 14lbs. You weighed yours at 16lb so sounds about right. FX used to be F1 racing or something so it might have been from f1racing days.

  2. #252
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    Jul 2012
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    98 M3/4/5, RIP 528e
    Update time!

    Before the motor swap began, I took the car to a rally-x event. I burped the cooling system as best I could, and prayed it would hold together for a day of racing. We're only racing at the farm this year, which means all dirt, all the time. I have a feeling the more wide open surface of Frostburg would have probably been to my car's advantage, as the courses we have at the farm seem to be a little more tighter and technical. Oh well, gotta learn to adapt!

    I removed the FSB in an attempt to get rid of some understeer, but since it had been like 6 months since I had last driven the car at a rally-x event, it was tough to really compare. All I know is that I was rarely frustrated by understeer at this event, so I guess it did something! I was hitting cones left and right, and I think I need to remove the RSB as well, but it's the only thing keeping pressure on the rear springs, and I'm worried they might pop out if a rear wheel goes to full droop when on course. I may have to revisit the droop/limit straps again in the future....

    Overall the car felt and ran great, but I need to relearn some car control. I think I ended up in 6th place out of about 12 people, averaging something like one second slower per run than the top guys.

    Steven Phillips took some great pictures of the event, so I hope he doesn't mind me posting them here. Thanks Steven!!!













    I also made a little video of my best AM/PM runs, so check it out!

    https://youtu.be/18pw7LA2Kzg

    Anyways, with that out of the way, I'll start documenting the engine swap process!

  3. #253
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    98 M3/4/5, RIP 528e
    Due to the layout of my garage, I had to think very hard about how to best do an engine swap. Normally I just pull the car straight in, but the area where the front of the car would be is a mess of intact tiles, broken tiles, concrete, fake wood floors, and the hydraulic line for the lift. Not exactly the ideal place to be messing around with an engine on a hoist. That meant I had to back the car in, which didn't leave much flat space in front of the car due to the driveway sloping away from the house. I definitely didn't want my engine to roll down the driveway on the hoist either! With that now clear, it should hopefully make a little more sense why I chose to pull off the whole front end of the car, minus the condenser.

    Last shot of the old motor intact in the car:



    Most of the front came off pretty easily:



    Thankfully Josh came over to help with the extraction, and I'm so thankful he did, because manuevering around the steering shaft was quite a pain. We had to use a ratchet strap to pull the motor towards the PS to get it to clear:



    But it finally came out. Success!



    Ok, now the real work begins....



    One of the first things I did was separate the trans from the motor. I was greeted by what appeared to be a nearly worn out clutch disc...







    And a mystery flywheel that needs to be resurfaced:







    The pressure plate also looked a little tired...



    Since this was an unexpected surprise, and I'm still reeling from buying a used motor, I've been scrambling to figure out the cheapest, but still reliable way to get this thing buttoned up. At this point, I'm pretty sure that I have an Ebay/GripForce Stage 2 kit in the car, and after all I've read, I'm thinking about getting the same setup, just new. They're cheap as hell and seem to get good enough reviews, at least in the E36 application. I considered the E34 M5 clutch route, but could never be sure it would work with my flywheel. I considered the UUC setup for about five minutes before I started reading reviews. The stuff on BW is all out of my budget.

    As of right now, I still haven't even ordered all my other parts, because I keep finding more things I want to "do while I'm in there". Famous last words. Because if I keep going like I'm inclined to, I'll never come out. I was *this* close to ordering new rod bearings until I read more about doing them properly, and I just don't think I'm up for it. I will probably be installing a baffled oil pan since my pan gasket is leaking real bad on the new motor. Oh, and of course the reinforced Z3 oil pickup tube, because I'm in there!

    The input and output shaft seals for the trans look dry, and I'm not super interested in replacing them if they're fine. Is that foolish? The PO of the new engine said he replaced the rear main seal, and it appears pretty dry, but again....I'm already in there. But $100 ain't chump change either. Too many decisions.....
    Last edited by 95maxrider; 06-16-2017 at 09:27 AM.

  4. #254
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    98 M3/4/5, RIP 528e
    Hey everyone, I just got done installing a fresher S52 and after a spin around the block I've got four codes:

    P0170- Fuel trim bank 1
    P0173- Fuel trim bank 2
    P1188- Fuel Control Bank 1 sensor
    P1189- Fuel Control Bank 2 sensor

    The car also refused to crank or turn over with the hood shut, but it started right up with the hood open!

    Here are my questions-

    I'm concerned that I might have hooked up the pre-cat O2 sensors to the wrong plugs. Since I think the wires for them are the same length, I assume the bank 2/rear header O2 plugs into the front plug on top of the motor, and the front header O2 plugs into the rearward plug on top of the motor?

    Also, I removed the secondary air pump and installed Turner block off plates on the stock manifolds. I have not yet gotten a tune to eliminate that function, so that may throw a code. From what I've read though, that only activates when it's colder out, and it's about 70* right now. Plus, wouldn't that throw a more specific code?

    The motor has rebuilt/cleaned fuel injectors, new spark plugs, new intake elbow, no vacuum leaks, idles fine, etc. Can anyone give me some ideas of what to look for? Thank you!!!

  5. #255
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    98 M3/4/5, RIP 528e
    UPDATE: I did a quick look around the engine but saw no obvious vacuum leaks. I didn't do a smoke test because I was pretty sure I smelled fuel and I wanted to deal with that first. While the motor was out I decided to track down the fuel smell that had been going on for a while. Turns out the top of the pump on the DS had been getting all wet and dripping down the tank. I replaced the big round gasket for the cap, along with the hose and clamp. Well, it was still leaking today despite the clamp being on very tight. I'm using HP fuel line and fuel line hose clamps, so I can't imagine how they can be leaking. Maybe the nipple has a crack in it?

    I noticed when I was doing the job that the base of the nipple appeared to be chipped (under the hose), and I'm wondering if that could be the source. Is that supposed to be all normal and smooth, or is mine messed up?

  6. #256
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    Des Moines, IA
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    I had the same issue of gas weeping down the tank, I think it may have been a degrading fuel hose. I went to replace the hose but broke off one of the plastic nipples trying to remove the hose, so I had to replace the whole level sender assembly. Cleared right up.
    Last edited by Laminar; 08-29-2017 at 10:31 AM.

  7. #257
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    98 M3/4/5, RIP 528e
    Quote Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
    I had the same issue of gas weeping down the tank, I think it may have been a degrading fuel hose. I went to replace the gasket but broke off one of the nipples trying to remove the hose, so I had to replace the whole level sender assembly. Cleared right up.
    I've got this posted up on Facebook and one guy mentioned that I need the metric fuel hose from BMW for the nipple on the sending unit, not the STD off the shelf HP stuff that I have a 20' roll of (in 3 sizes). What did you use?

  8. #258
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    Dec 2014
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    Des Moines, IA
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    I don't remember buying anything special, probably just 5/16" high pressure fuel hose I had lying around. 5/16" is about 7.9mm so if the metric hose is 8mm it should probably fit?

  9. #259
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    98 328i, 79 911SC
    I'm using 5/16 to join my 8mm oe lines to the GM 5/16 lines for my swap.
    the difference in diameter is negligible. Just use fuel injection clamps and you'll be fine.
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
    current build: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    instant grams: doktor_b

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by doktor b View Post
    I'm using 5/16 to join my 8mm oe lines to the GM 5/16 lines for my swap.
    the difference in diameter is negligible. Just use fuel injection clamps and you'll be fine.
    That's kind of what I figured. I'm using good FI hose clamps, and this thing leaks like a sieve. Not sure what to make of it....

  11. #261
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    98 M3/4/5, RIP 528e
    Alrighty, well I installed a new/used fuel sender unit after finding a hairline crack in mine, and that seems to have solved the fuel leak. Hooray! I also put on some new/used intake boot clamps since mine appeared to be a little out of round, and made sure they were all super tight.

    I then cleared the 4 codes and went for a drive. After an hour they still haven't come back! However, I'm still having the intermittent no start problem. At first I thought it was related to the hood, because the car didn't seem to want to start with the hood closed. Same thing happened today when I took it for a drive. I came home, ate dinner, and wanted to go do some more testing. Now, the car won't start at all. I tried both of my keys, hood up and down, and nothing. No crank, no noises, nothing. The dash lights up though. I'm thinking it's either EWS or started related, but I'm not sure where to start my troubleshooting. The car never did this before the motor swap. The newer motor came with a starter, and I can't remember if that's the one I installed or if I used my old one. When the car does start, it does so quickly and normally. Anyone have any guesses at to what the problem may be?

  12. #262
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    98 M3/4/5, RIP 528e
    Alright guys, I hate to post up about something that has been beaten to death so many times, but I'm at a loss here and need help getting (what I hope is just) an air pocket out of my cooling system. Before we go on, I have the Bentley manual, the Pelican 101 Projects book, and printouts from forum how-tos on filling and burping coolant. I'm using all of them. To bring everyone up to speed, I just replaced the motor in my 98 M3, and thus the cooling system was drained fully, including most of the heater core.

    Parts used:
    Stewart WP
    OEM BMW normal temp thermostat with tiny hole drilled at top to help release air
    Z3M rad
    Electric fan
    All new hoses

    Here's my procedure:
    Put front of car up on ramps about 12".
    Set interior fan to max speed and heat (with the engine off)
    Remove bleed screw and expansion tank cap, add coolant to expansion tank until only coolant (no air bubbles) comes out of the bleeder screw location. Reinstall bleeder screw. Keep main cap off.
    Turn the engine on, heat and fan still at max.
    When coolant temp (via OBD2 port and app on my phone) reaches about 150* I slowly rev engine to 2,000-2,500 for a few seconds. Crack the bleed screw until no more air comes out.
    Check the lower radiator hose for heat.
    Verify heat in the cabin.
    Usually make sure electric fan kicks on (about 205*)

    My problem is that the lower radiator hose never gets hot (the upper is nice and hot). When I try to bleed it, after it gets to about 180* coolant just starts coming out the top of the expansion tank and doesn't stop until I turn the car off. The electric fan, which I believe gets its signal from the sensor there on the PS of the rad where the lower hose is, didn't kick on. I can only guess that there's a giant air pocket over there on the PS of the radiator that's keeping the temp sensor from getting a reading and from letting coolant into the lower hose. The only thing I can think to do at this point is drain it and refill it very, very slowly. What in the world am I doing wrong here?

  13. #263
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    98 328i, 79 911SC
    I've had to pour coolant directly into the upper rad hose before to get the cooling system properly filled.
    if that doesn't help, idk.
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
    current build: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    instant grams: doktor_b

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by doktor b View Post
    I've had to pour coolant directly into the upper rad hose before to get the cooling system properly filled.
    if that doesn't help, idk.
    So you pop it off the thermostat housing and pour directly into the radiator? What's the theory behind that one?

  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
    So you pop it off the thermostat housing and pour directly into the radiator? What's the theory behind that one?
    Yes
    for whatever reason, I couldn't get the top radiator hose to fill with coolant.
    it would get hot from steam, but no coolant.
    so then the block wouldn't fill correctly either. I think the tstat housing should have a bleed on it like the m20 motors have or another bleed somewhere higher. (Although idk of anywhere much higher in the engine that has coolant)
    always trying to make it lighter and faster

    ^^former build: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...-neglected-M3/
    current build: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...car-build.html
    instant grams: doktor_b

  16. #266
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    98 M3/4/5, RIP 528e
    This cooling system is kicking my ass and I need some help!

    I took a week or so off from touching the car to take care of some yard work. The last time I tried to burp the cooling system it wasn't circulating (the lower hose was cool and not much hot air was coming from the vents) and it just kept overflowing from the expansion tank, so I turned it off and let it sit for a week. I think I added a bit of coolant to it after turning it off. Well, some 10 days later I decided to disassemble the whole system this weekend and see if I could find a problem. Well, I opened up the cap and was greeted by a geyser of coolant, just like when I had my last motor! It must have spit out at least half a gallon. I disassembled everything, and it all checked out. There was no blockage in the radiator, and the thermostat passed the boiling water test on the stove. The cap is OEM BMW and only has a few hundred miles on it. The OEM BMW expansion tank was installed by the previous owner and probably has 10,000 miles on it. I installed the Stewart WP last year and it has less than 5,000 miles on it.

    What in the world is going on here? How did the system pressurize itself so much after I had turned the car off? Why isn't the coolant circulating???

  17. #267
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    17 Sprinter, 94 325is
    Try filling the engine block with water/coolant before putting all your hoses and thermostat on. It's possible the block is just heating up and not opening the thermostat hence no circulation.

  18. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjh102 View Post
    Try filling the engine block with water/coolant before putting all your hoses and thermostat on. It's possible the block is just heating up and not opening the thermostat hence no circulation.
    Isn't that what happens when I fill into the expansion tank? It goes into the hose at the bottom of the tank, along the bottom of the radiator, and into the DS of the block. And if the block were heating up (which it pretty much has to, right?) why wouldn't that be enough to open the thermostat?

  19. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
    Isn't that what happens when I fill into the expansion tank? It goes into the hose at the bottom of the tank, along the bottom of the radiator, and into the DS of the block. And if the block were heating up (which it pretty much has to, right?) why wouldn't that be enough to open the thermostat?
    Yes that is in theory what should happen. Unless you get an air bubble and it doesn't allow coolant to actually get into the block.

    I'm just throwing suggestions out there at this point as you've had the same issue on two engines. Something isn't right. I've done 5-10 e36 cooling systems and never had an issue but before hooking up all hoses I've filled the block up as much as possible.

  20. #270
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    Hey everyone! In case you haven't heard, there are fixes out now to enable viewing of the locked out Photobucket pictures!

    If you're using Google Chrome, go to the three dots on the right side of the screen and click them. A drop down should appear. Hover your mouse over "More Tools," and when the next drop down appears, click on extensions. Go to the link towards the bottom that says "Get more extensions." In the search box, type "Photobucket Fix," and hit enter. Click the install button and once it's done, you should be able to see Photobucket pictures again.

    For Firefox users, click on the three bars on the right side of the screen, then click on add-ons. Click search for "Photobucket hotlink" and click install. Same result.

  21. #271
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    98 M3/4/5, RIP 528e
    I need some advice about what to do with my spring rates when I remove both sway bars. The car is on JVAB offroad Bilstein-based shocks, and has/had stock sway bars. Front springs are 12" 250 lb, rears are 7" 350 lb (although I'm probably going to try and squeeze some 8" springs in there). I recently removed my FSB in an effort to get rid of understeer when on course (it helped), and I think I would like to also remove the rear to help me put down power and get better wheel articulation. I believe that I will need to raise my spring rates to compensate for the lack of sway bars, but I'm not an engineer and can't calculate how much I should change. If I had to guess, I would start with 300f/400r, but it's just a guess. Can anyone comment on how I should go about this? I can't exactly buy a bunch of different springs and try them all out, because that would be too expensive on my tight budget.

    Thanks in advance!

  22. #272
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    Fucking magical!! Thanks a ton!


    Quote Originally Posted by 95maxrider View Post
    Hey everyone! In case you haven't heard, there are fixes out now to enable viewing of the locked out Photobucket pictures!

    If you're using Google Chrome, go to the three dots on the right side of the screen and click them. A drop down should appear. Hover your mouse over "More Tools," and when the next drop down appears, click on extensions. Go to the link towards the bottom that says "Get more extensions." In the search box, type "Photobucket Fix," and hit enter. Click the install button and once it's done, you should be able to see Photobucket pictures again.

    For Firefox users, click on the three bars on the right side of the screen, then click on add-ons. Click search for "Photobucket hotlink" and click install. Same result.
    Back into a BMW, this time a track rat....and it won't be BMW powered and no, not a V8 either!
    Couldn't help myself, boosted e36 m52 street car in progress also!

  23. #273
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    Jul 2012
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    Vernon, CT
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    1999 M3 5spd
    I don't have an answer for you about the spring rate increase, but if you still have your sway bars, and can do some measurements and testing with them, I can walk you through finding their effective spring rate.
    95 cosmoschwartz M3/2/5 : 2012-1/1/2014 (worn rtab's and bald rear tires in the rain)

    98 cosmoschwartz M3/4/5 : 2016-3/10/2017 (understeering SUV)

    99 Estoril M3/2/5: 6/16/2017-current

  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsmith25 View Post
    I don't have an answer for you about the spring rate increase, but if you still have your sway bars, and can do some measurements and testing with them, I can walk you through finding their effective spring rate.
    Yup, I've still got both bars. The front is off the car right now, but the rear is still attached for the moment. You've piqued my curiosity, how do I measure their effective spring rate? I would assume this has already been done for the M3 already, but maybe not.

  25. #275
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    1999 M3 5spd
    I was referring to their rate in roll when installed when I said effective rate. When the car is in roll, the side that is being compressed gets added spring rate from the other side through the sway bar. The sway bar is in series with the opposite side spring from the compressed side's perspective.

    if you know your spring rates(you do) and the spring rate of the bar(you can measure that) then it is easy to calculate what your effective added spring rate in roll is.

    for springs in series, you find their rate using 1/ktotal=1/k1+1/k2..., and for springs in parallel it is ktotal=k1+k2...

    So if the stock bar is say about 100lb/in(I made that up) using your 250 lb/in front spring rate, the rate added to the compressed side by the drooped side is 1/(1/100+1/250)=71

    Then that 71 lb/in effective spring rate is in parallel with the compressed side spring so your total spring rate in roll is 250+71=321

    If you can setup a jig either on the car or off the car to hold one side of the bar in place while you move the other side of the bar and measure both the force and distance that the other side is moved, you can use that to calculate the rate of the bar, then plug that into those two formulas to calculate your roll specific spring rate with the bars installed.

    The one complication is in the rear the spring and the sway bar attachment point are different distances from the inner ball joint on the control arm, so you would have to factor those in to get an accurate comparison on the back.
    Last edited by tsmith25; 10-19-2017 at 11:04 AM.
    95 cosmoschwartz M3/2/5 : 2012-1/1/2014 (worn rtab's and bald rear tires in the rain)

    98 cosmoschwartz M3/4/5 : 2016-3/10/2017 (understeering SUV)

    99 Estoril M3/2/5: 6/16/2017-current

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