E36 M3 RallyCross build!

[95maxrider]

He's worried about keeping the AC charged and no one has been able to say how hard it is to push the condenser aside when pulling the engine. Pulling the headlights and fascia is less labor intensive than pulling all of the accessories and intake manifold.

Yup! Although to be fair, it sounds like the intake manifold has to come off to get to the rear lift point, and you have to remove most accessories no matter how you pull the motor out.

[doktor b]

That solid steering knuckle is a nice upgrade.
no such thing as too much feedback from the steering wheel!

[95maxrider]

Hey guys, I'm about to get started with the motor swap and I have a quick question: If I crack the AC system at the condenser (forgive me EPA), will I lose just refrigerant or refrigerant plus oil? I've got a gauge set and cans of refrigerant, but I can't do anything about oil. Do I need to bite the bullet and just take it to a shop afterwards, or can I fill it up myself and not worry about the oil level? Thanks!

[doktor b]

Hey guys, I'm about to get started with the motor swap and I have a quick question: If I crack the AC system at the condenser (forgive me EPA), will I lose just refrigerant or refrigerant plus oil? I've got a gauge set and cans of refrigerant, but I can't do anything about oil. Do I need to bite the bullet and just take it to a shop afterwards, or can I fill it up myself and not worry about the oil level? Thanks!

you'll need to take it to a shop if you want it to work 100% correctly.
we empty the systems, vac them down, and then fill. if you open it and dump the refrigerant to atmo and then refill at home, you'll never get the air out. i can't imagine a shop would charge you at all to remove the refrigerant. they don't waste it and that junk is kinda expensive.

[95maxrider]

you'll need to take it to a shop if you want it to work 100% correctly.
we empty the systems, vac them down, and then fill. if you open it and dump the refrigerant to atmo and then refill at home, you'll never get the air out. i can't imagine a shop would charge you at all to remove the refrigerant. they don't waste it and that junk is kinda expensive.

That's kind of what I figured. I think I'm just going to try working around the condenser and only crack it if I absolutely have to.

[95maxrider]

Hey guys, I'm in the middle of swapping motors and I need some help identifying my flywheel and choosing which bolts I need to use to attach it to the motor. According to the previous owner, it's some aluminum single mass unit, but I don't see any markings on it to identify the brand! It doesn't look like anything UUC, Turner, or Bimmerworld sells. Since it's not dual mass like the stock one, I'm not sure which flywheel bolts I'm supposed to use either. Can anyone help me out with either question?









I'm also trying to figure out how much life my clutch disc has left, but I can't find a minimum thickness listed in the Bentley manual or anywhere online. How does this look to you?







Thanks in advance!

EDIT- I just realized that all I need to do is weigh the flywheel and that should help me figure out what brand it is. I'll do it when I get home tonight!

[doktor b]

That flywheel looks steel.
check it with a magnet to be sure. But I don't see any bolts that'd fasten a steel friction surface to an aluminum flywheel either.

and I'd replace the disc. They're cheap and the grooves between pads are really shallow. (Kinda like tires)

[Tom R]

Yes, that is very likely a steel flywheel, sorry.

Take the flywheel to a machinist to have it resurfaced and balanced. The last step is important to ensure that you dont suffer a UUC-like failure.

[95maxrider]

That flywheel looks steel.
check it with a magnet to be sure. But I don't see any bolts that'd fasten a steel friction surface to an aluminum flywheel either.

and I'd replace the disc. They're cheap and the grooves between pads are really shallow. (Kinda like tires)

I want to replace the disc, but it's an upgraded sprung piece, and replacing those appear to be considerably more expensive than OEM unsprung discs. A Sachs stock disc is about $200 but their upgraded sprung version is $450! I can't really afford that right now....

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, that is very likely a steel flywheel, sorry.

Take the flywheel to a machinist to have it resurfaced and balanced. The last step is important to ensure that you dont suffer a UUC-like failure.

Hey, I'm cool with steel. As long as it's not stock I'm happy. Got any details on the UUC-like failure, and why getting it resurfaced will help? I'm not opposed to doing that, just looking for more info. Thanks!

EDIT- Since I've got everyone reading already, do you think I need a new pressure plate too? I really can't afford that either, but it looks pretty tired, and it's stiffer than I would like. It says "Sachs Typ MF 240".

[doktor b]

Frankly, I'd hit that pplate with a roloc disc and clean it and call it good.
resurfacing is for longevity and smooth engagement.
balancing is to keep it from shaking the engine to bits.

[Tom R]

Just google it. UUC flywheel e36 failure, you won't miss it.

The resurfacing will help the new clutch mate evenly with the flywheel. The balancing will prevent failure if the flywheel is not balanced or is thrown off balance by the resurfacing / new pressure plate. As you might expect, common guidance is to replace the pressure plate. Give Clutchmasters, SPEC, etc. a call and see what they say.

Removing the trans is a PITA so i would do everything to ensure that it is only done once. Certainly replace the throw out bearing along with that white plastic pin. The chumpcar approach is to do none of the above, but they also break all the time...

[95maxrider]

Yeah, I'm all about doing things right the first time, but buying a new to me S52 really drained the budget, and I'm not sure I can do everything I need to do right now. I might just have to button it up as-is and come back to it this winter. I doubt I'll drive more than 2,000 miles between now and then.

But I have yet another question- will I get more money selling my tired but running S52 (worn ring on cylinder 4, heli-cooiled #1 spark plug, head gasket likely going bad) whole or by parting it out? If I can make some quick cash getting rid of the old motor ASAP then I could afford to do the clutch properly now.

[Tom R]

Good luck. After all the bad luck you've suffered, i hope statistics rewards you on this on.

A poorly functioning engine is always worth more apart.

[95maxrider]

Alright, I could use some more expert advice!

I just weighed the flywheel and it's 16.6 pounds. There are absolutely no markings on it to indicate the manufacturer. I'm wondering if it's some Ebay special POS. From what I've been reading, the E34 M5 clutch upgrade is completely unnecessary for a mildly modded NA S52, and adds back a ton of weight that a lightweight flywheel takes out. Apparently it also makes the clutch pedal feel lighter. My clutch pedal is much heavier than stock, so I don't think that's what's in my car. There are also absolutely no markings of any kind on the clutch disc, and the pressure plate only says "Sachs Typ MF 240". All this points to some cheap Ebay package, like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FX-STAGE-1-C...5XpSNn&vxp=mtr

That doesn't look exactly like what I've got, but the PP is the same blue, and I can barely see that it's made by Sachs.

I'm now in the position where I think I would like to reuse the flywheel and get a new clutch and PP, but I'm unclear if I can combine a stock unsprung clutch with this flywheel. Can anyone offer guidance?

[doktor b]

That Sachs 240 pplate is the plate South Bend clutch uses on most of their performance clutch setups.

an unsprung disc will be less forgiving than a sprung disc.
but for a race car, it really shouldn't make much of a difference.
in traffic, you'll notice for sure.
But ripping around a race course, I don't think you'll care.

[95maxrider]

That Sachs 240 pplate is the plate South Bend clutch uses on most of their performance clutch setups.

an unsprung disc will be less forgiving than a sprung disc.
but for a race car, it really shouldn't make much of a difference.
in traffic, you'll notice for sure.
But ripping around a race course, I don't think you'll care.

So it sounds like I should get this sprung OEM Sachs kit:

http://www.bimmerworld.com/Sachs-Clu...1998-1999.html

What do you think? Reasonable price and all the performance I'll ever need.

[doktor b]

So it sounds like I should get this sprung OEM Sachs kit:

http://www.bimmerworld.com/Sachs-Clu...1998-1999.html

What do you think? Reasonable price and all the performance I'll ever need.

What I know for sure is that the guys at BW are fantastic.
give them a call tomorrow and see if they think it'll hold up to your intended use.

[95maxrider]

What I know for sure is that the guys at BW are fantastic.
give them a call tomorrow and see if they think it'll hold up to your intended use.

Well I sure am glad I called before ordering, they have the wrong picture up on their site and that kit is unsprung! Looks like my next two cheapest options are either the E34 M5 clutch disc with a new E36 M3 PP for about $435 or the Clutch Masters FX100 kit for $475. Am I correct in understanding that the M5 disc will make my pedal feel lighter than stock, or does that only apply when combined with the E34 M5 PP? The guys at BW said the E34 M5 disc works well with the stock E36 M3 PP, but can anyone here confirm?

[Laminar]

The pressure plate contains the springs that your throwout bearing and, in effect, your clutch pedal have to push against. The clutch friction plate itself has no effect on the effort, the effort is 100% pressure plate. The clutch friction disc may help with smoother or tighter engagement, and it may slip more or less.

[95maxrider]

The pressure plate contains the springs that your throwout bearing and, in effect, your clutch pedal have to push against. The clutch friction plate itself has no effect on the effort, the effort is 100% pressure plate. The clutch friction disc may help with smoother or tighter engagement, and it may slip more or less.

That makes sense.

I just got off the phone with a guy at Turner and got some more info to work with. First of all, there is a HD Sachs kit that is sprung and supposed to mate well with a JBR flywheel, however, but they want $871 for it!

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-4...e36-e46-z3-z4/

At this point I'm pretty sure I have a knock-off JBR mid-weight flywheel, so that kit sounds good except for the price!

The guy at Turner informed me that they run a stock unsprung clutch with a 12 pound aluminum flywheel, and he said the chatter really isn't that bad. Since my flywheel weighs closer to 17 pounds, I'm now considering this route, even though everyone on the forums seems to say that combining a single mass flywheel with the stock unsprung clutch would be a disaster.

Ahh, too many choices, I need an adult!

EDIT- I should also note that I'm completely unclear about which flywheel bolts I should be using with this single mass unit. I assume the stock OEM bolts for the dual mass won't be correct? The bolts that were on the motor had a normal 19mm head and the total length below the head was 29.3mm. If these are stretch bolts, how do I figure out what length I'm supposed to buy? Can I just use any bolts for single mass flywheels, or is there a chance they're specific to my flywheel?

[doktor b]

I've never seen a flywheel for any car that needs special bolts different than stock.

This is for the race car, right?

just grab a fresh solid hub disc for cheap, clean up the pplate and flywheel and go. If you hate it, change it at the end of the season or when money allows. Dropping the trans isn't fun. But it's not the end of the world.

[95maxrider]

I've never seen a flywheel for any car that needs special bolts different than stock.

This is for the race car, right?

just grab a fresh solid hub disc for cheap, clean up the pplate and flywheel and go. If you hate it, change it at the end of the season or when money allows. Dropping the trans isn't fun. But it's not the end of the world.

Ok, stock bolts would definitely be good.

Yes, this is for the M3. It's a rally-x car, but it still sees plenty of street driving, so it needs to be civil. If the difference between a stock unsprung disc and the M5 sprung disc is only $60, I can afford that, and am now leaning in that direction. I really don't want to pull this trans again any time soon. As long as the M5 disc plays nice with my single mass flywheel and M3 PP, I think I'll be set.

[95maxrider]

Well, I still don't have a firm answer on my M5 clutch disc questions, so I started a thread in the general section asking for help.

I found a relevant thread that I bumped, but didn't get much in the way of helpful answers.

TL;DR questions:
-Can I use any E34 M5 clutch disc with my mystery flywheel? Does the part number matter, or are they all pretty much the same (sprung)?
-Should I follow the BW instruction (for their slightly different kit) and install the disc backwards?
-Which flywheel bolts should I use, and where's the best place to buy them?

[abq]

Thats a FX Racing flywheel. We turbo guys run the FX racing clutch setup. Its not as light as the other flywheel and deosnt have the issues a UUC flywheel would have with bolts backing out or whatever. Save yourself the money and run the flywheel. if not ill take it off your hands for my daily.

I believe the bolts out of a automatic trans 325 will work.. or the bolts from a e30 with the single mass wheel. I am still trying to confirm myself. IF you find PN or something please let me know as well!

[95maxrider]

Thats a FX Racing flywheel. We turbo guys run the FX racing clutch setup. Its not as light as the other flywheel and deosnt have the issues a UUC flywheel would have with bolts backing out or whatever. Save yourself the money and run the flywheel. if not ill take it off your hands for my daily.

I believe the bolts out of a automatic trans 325 will work.. or the bolts from a e30 with the single mass wheel. I am still trying to confirm myself. IF you find PN or something please let me know as well!

Interesting, someone in the other thread said the same thing. But when I looked up an FX kit for sale, the picture showed a flywheel with a ton of holes in it that mine doesn't have. Do you have any pictures of yours? I'll post up if I can get a source or more info on the bolts. Please do the same if you find anything out!