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Thread: An N/A guy looking to the darkside. Help me build boost!

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY98M3 View Post
    Use the factory vent tube that goes from the VC to the CCV and vent it to atmosphere down low.
    +1, that's what I did, looks factory

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY98M3 View Post
    Use the factory vent tube that goes from the VC to the CCV and vent it to atmosphere down low.
    Just delete the valve altogether and take the end that attaches to the valve and point it to the ground? Isn't there some point on the IACV that also attaches to the CCV?

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  3. #103
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    Yes, and oh btw get the maxpsi icv kit. Its silicone so you get no boost leaks

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Yes, and oh btw get the maxpsi icv kit. Its silicone so you get no boost leaks
    Just the way I designed it
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  5. #105
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    Glad it helps. There are allot of builds that on here that are well documented. Almost like paint by numbers. There are guys on here who are brilliant. Sometimes the brilliant do not document well. Make the brilliant your friends but read a couple of the well documented builds.

    If you like how butters and chikenhed documented (like I did) its a good place to think about starting. They are also not D**ks and will talk to you if you have issues. I disqualify myself because I document well but I get lost in satisfying my own curiosity way to much for stuff I put out there to be of real help. Im a phone call away and much less self serving.

    I seem to recall RowlynM did a great job of being focused and step by step as well. Arm yourself. The darkside of the FI force has big strong sabers they will wave in your face but they will make you pay if you pull a puny saber on them. But rest assured, they are brilliant too and will come to your aid.....just avoid the whole "down the hatch" scenario.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by GG///M3 View Post
    Just the way I designed it
    I need to snag one. Those DIY elbows that people try to make don't work for shit. Even under low boost....


    96 328 Turbo
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Infammus 1 View Post
    The time has come to add more WHP's to my vehicle. I've always been an N/A build type of guy, and if any of you frequent the Kills Section you would see my last setup worked quite well for an N/A S52 while on my trips to "Mexico". That is, till my cylinder 1 rod decided to make me a custom window in my oil pan. Not really surprised or upset, she lasted 213k miles of constant abuse between tracking, racing, and daily driving. I was going to build another N/A motor but I got a great deal on a boost setup I couldn't pass up, not to mention much of my competition is stepping up their game so it's time I do the same. I can always use what's left of the current motor to build another N/A setup later on if I like.

    I'm pretty competent in understanding many automotive aspects, but I'm new to the boost game. I've been pretty diligent in perusing this section and badgering my friends before asking questions, but some things I'd like more information on. Is there a good place to gain more information on turbos/ turbo setups themselves? I see a lot of posts on A/R housings, turbine and compressor wheels and ratios, spool RPM and such and would like a more in depth understanding myself of them. Any information to help further my knowledge would be appreciated. Big thanks to Frank, Scott and Anthony for fielding my questions and helping me already!

    I've also started to compile a parts list if I were to piece a turbo setup together instead of buying a kit, I was interested in purchasing a friend's setup but not sure if he'll be interested in parting with it. Any help adding to it or correcting it would be great!

    - Tial q50 BOV
    - Tial MVR 44mm
    - New CES/SteedSpeed twin scroll manifold
    - Treadstone IC
    - RK Tunes tuning package
    - ?? motor mount/ turbo motor mount arm
    - ?? gauges/wideband
    - Walbro 400 or 450 Fuel Pump
    - ?? Turbo
    - ?? piping

    Pretty sure I'm missing a ton of stuff. Any help would be great! And if you're bored, I have some videos from some trips to Mexico at www.youtube.com/CheVaLi3R of my previous N/A setup. Thanks in advance gentlemen.

    you will be more powerful than sprayed ls swapped e36's


  8. #108
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    Glue/jbweld/thread a barbed fitting into your manifold icv port. I used a natural gas fitting since it fit best. No issues in 9 years of boost. Have a stock turkey neck off that to the icv. Then parts of a stock icv hose sectioned and connected going to the cold side pipe. Inexpensive and holds as much boost as my motor has ever seen, which is probably 25 psi.

    But for $60, assuming you already have a TB elbow with icv nipple like me, the MaxPsi hoses are an inexpensive and simple solution to the hose part of the problem. You still need to secure a fitting into the manifold and that is really the main problem with the icv and boost.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    Glue/jbweld/thread a barbed fitting into your manifold icv port. I used a natural gas fitting since it fit best. No issues in 9 years of boost. Have a stock turkey neck off that to the icv. Then parts of a stock icv hose sectioned and connected going to the cold side pipe. Inexpensive and holds as much boost as my motor has ever seen, which is probably 25 psi.

    But for $60, assuming you already have a TB elbow with icv nipple like me, the MaxPsi hoses are an inexpensive and simple solution to the hose part of the problem. You still need to secure a fitting into the manifold and that is really the main problem with the icv and boost.
    I modified m50 mani kit for the hoses. Blocked off one port using an old iat sensor and then zip tied the hose that goes to mani. The problem was the nipple I silicone glued onto the 3" elbow was coming off. Didn't mean to jack thread!
    Last edited by bmw328m52; 12-30-2015 at 09:40 AM.


    96 328 Turbo
    98 M3/4/5

  10. #110
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    Another easy way of doing it is, with the manifold off, take the obd2 grommet and put it in the m50 manifold, you will need to cut 2 tabs on the grommet to get it tight. Then take the manifold to home depot and go to the plumbing isle. Go to the brass or black steel fittings and find one the will fit just right and cut threads into the rubber grommet. As you thread it in it will slightly expand the grommet and pin that bitch in place. Once you got the right pipe thread , go home and put a little rtv on the pipe threads and spin it in.
    That will never go anywhere. Then short piece of hose from pipe fitting to ICV and 2 clamps. All done for like $5.
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  11. #111
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    Jumping in here late. Based on the racing and driving you do, I definitely say suck up the slightly laggy turbo and get the 6466. I know you will want more, and the ability to turn it up and NOT have to buy another turbo again. This makes the 6466 the best choice.

    As for tuners, Nick or Jordan are both great. They both have made similar power on all set-ups, and both offer great drive-ability. I've personally driven only 1 Nick G. Tuned car, and more than a dozen of Jordan's turbo cars, they were all great. If you pony up and buy a proper twinscroll manifold, the 6466 isn't that bad on even pump gas. My friend Ben made over 600whp on a 6466, with a Radowski TS mani, custom Paul Berk pistons and cams, on 91 at 15 psi with Jordan's tuning. Car started spooling around 3600 and had full boost before 4500, IT RAPES (made 755whp on 21 psi with 91 and meth)! On E85, my buddy Jordan's (xinlinesix) 845whp 6466 e34 touring, beat on 800-900whp Alpha 9+ GTRs.

    As for gearing, the 3.46 will be too short. Stock 3.23 IMO is the shortest you want to go. For 600+ I prefer 2.93s from my experience, all the cars that have 3.23 with that kind of power that I've driven make 1st and 2nd useless, and 3rd spins hard. Ben's 6466 car at 600whp spun at WOT in 3rd and at 755whp spun in 4th at over 100mph with 3.23s, and sticky 265s out back.

    Also, I think your cams are going to be too aggressive and tricky to tune. If anything trade + cash for some Schricks and you'll make great power!

    Excited for you buddy!
    Last edited by e30polak; 12-30-2015 at 01:51 PM.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    Glue/jbweld/thread a barbed fitting into your manifold icv port. I used a natural gas fitting since it fit best. No issues in 9 years of boost. Have a stock turkey neck off that to the icv. Then parts of a stock icv hose sectioned and connected going to the cold side pipe. Inexpensive and holds as much boost as my motor has ever seen, which is probably 25 psi.

    But for $60, assuming you already have a TB elbow with icv nipple like me, the MaxPsi hoses are an inexpensive and simple solution to the hose part of the problem. You still need to secure a fitting into the manifold and that is really the main problem with the icv and boost.
    Thanks for the info, I like the maxpsi kit. I'll add it to the ever growing list of parts and modify the VC to CCV accordingly lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bmw328m52 View Post
    I modified m50 mani kit for the hoses. Blocked off one port using an old iat sensor and then zip tied the hose that goes to mani. The problem was the nipple I silicone glued onto the 3" elbow was coming off. Didn't mean to jack thread!
    Another good solution here, thanks for the visual!

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  13. #113
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    Met a supra guy tonight, said hes shooting for 550whp, has a 72mm turbo, I was like...... bc supra lol

    Got me to thinking though, s366 on a great spooling twin manifold with a 3.2 and shrick cams would be an awesome setup, 600-650whp on pump all day and the turbo is pretty cheap.

    As long as you make 400-450 ft lbs by 4500 you'll love it, trust me.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by e30polak View Post
    Jumping in here late. Based on the racing and driving you do, I definitely say suck up the slightly laggy turbo and get the 6466. I know you will want more, and the ability to turn it up and NOT have to buy another turbo again. This makes the 6466 the best choice.

    As for tuners, Nick or Jordan are both great. They both have made similar power on all set-ups, and both offer great drive-ability. I've personally driven only 1 Nick G. Tuned car, and more than a dozen of Jordan's turbo cars, they were all great. If you pony up and buy a proper twinscroll manifold, the 6466 isn't that bad on even pump gas. My friend Ben made over 600whp on a 6466, with a Radowski TS mani, custom Paul Berk pistons and cams, on 91 at 15 psi with Jordan's tuning. Car started spooling around 3600 and had full boost before 4500, IT RAPES (made 755whp on 21 psi with 91 and meth)! On E85, my buddy Jordan's (xinlinesix) 845whp 6466 e34 touring, beat on 800-900whp Alpha 9+ GTRs.

    As for gearing, the 3.46 will be too short. Stock 3.23 IMO is the shortest you want to go. For 600+ I prefer 2.93s from my experience, all the cars that have 3.23 with that kind of power that I've driven make 1st and 2nd useless, and 3rd spins hard. Ben's 6466 car at 600whp spun at WOT in 3rd and at 755whp spun in 4th at over 100mph with 3.23s, and sticky 265s out back.

    Also, I think your cams are going to be too aggressive and tricky to tune. If anything trade + cash for some Schricks and you'll make great power!

    Excited for you buddy!
    I'm definitely still leaning towards a 6466 type setup, and you're right I'd like to do one and done so it would probably be my next choice. I'm on the list for the new CES twin scroll group buy so I think they'd complement each other VERY well. At this point either the 6466 or HTA3586 are gonna end up in my possession. I don't think I'll have 600 off the bat, but the 3.46 is still too high to use every gear. I'll probably get the car running again before I replace it though. As for cams, the new motor fortunately has some Schricks. I'll probably keep them in until later on when I get a turbo specific cam, I'm gonna miss that lopey idle of those big cams but I suppose the sound of spool will suffice as a replacement lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Met a supra guy tonight, said hes shooting for 550whp, has a 72mm turbo, I was like...... bc supra lol

    Got me to thinking though, s366 on a great spooling twin manifold with a 3.2 and shrick cams would be an awesome setup, 600-650whp on pump all day and the turbo is pretty cheap.

    As long as you make 400-450 ft lbs by 4500 you'll love it, trust me.
    Funny you mentioned the s366, a friend of mine wants to sell me his. Its just a large frame turbo for a bottom mount setup. All the s366 sized turbos i've seen are top mount

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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post

    As long as you make 400-450 ft lbs by 4500 you'll love it, trust me.
    I don't think 400-450 lbs rwtq by 4500 rpm is good. The only way I would tolerate that is if my motor was set up to rev to 8000 so I regained the power band I lost with the slow spooling turbo. Even 500 lbs at 4500 would be disappointing to me if redline was the 7200 that most of us have.

  16. #116
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    Id rather make 400wtq by 4k and 500wtq by 7krpm than have the opposite.

    Torque curve falling on its face dropping 150wtq from peak to redline is not "winning".

  17. #117
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    Doesn't horsepower "take over" up top ?

    Ideally I'm trying to achieve 500 TQ by 4k and have 700+HP up top on pump 93+meth. If I can pull that off I will be happy and consider the car done.
    1996 332IS
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Id rather make 400wtq by 4k and 500wtq by 7krpm than have the opposite.

    Torque curve falling on its face dropping 150wtq from peak to redline is not "winning".
    You will never have 400 lbs rwtq at 4000 and 500 lbs rwtq at 7000 with stable boost control due to declining engine volumetric efficiency. You will have that only if you have massive boost creep or programmed boost rise by rpm to offset declining engine VE.

    Torque curve dropping at high rpm is normal and expected and unavoidable absent changing the boost at high rpm. You should have horsepower climbing with rpm. Torque gets you going. Horsepower then takes over.

    If you do not want stable boost and you want rising boost to offset declining VE, that is OK if your engine can take it.

    For my car, which is driven about 8000 miles per year in all sorts of conditions, and is not just a highway pull car, I want great overall driveability. I do not want to slice the hump off the dynograph when that hump is where I spend most of my driving time.

    By your account, the dyno below is terrible because it drops 200 lbs rwtq to redline.

    litemup 35 psi.jpg

    You would much prefer to slice off the hump and have a centrifugal supercharger like curve. You would have much less power under the curve, though I agree that in an all out race where you are mostly between 5500 and 7200, the difference would be minimal. That just is not the interest of most drivers.
    Last edited by pbonsalb; 12-31-2015 at 09:07 AM.

  19. #119
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    All you would need is 540wtq by 6800 rpm, and if you held 540wtq till 7200 it would make 740whp.

  20. #120
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    Here is a good one. SM3. This is a fully built S52 with about $4k worth of cylinder head to help engine VE as much as possible. Big GT4094R turbo, and only 19 psi stable boost.

    sm3 new engine cams GT4094R 19 psi.jpg

    I really like this power curve. Nearly 600 lbs rwtq from 4200 to 6000. Lots of get up and go. No need to wait until 6000 to get moving. The drop off of 100 lbs to redline is no big deal to me, since it is making great horsepower at that point.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36 HateR View Post
    Met a supra guy tonight, said hes shooting for 550whp, has a 72mm turbo, I was like...... bc supra lol

    Got me to thinking though, s366 on a great spooling twin manifold with a 3.2 and shrick cams would be an awesome setup, 600-650whp on pump all day and the turbo is pretty cheap.

    As long as you make 400-450 ft lbs by 4500 you'll love it, trust me.
    It is very fun. Even with stock s52 cams

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    Here is a good one. SM3. This is a fully built S52 with about $4k worth of cylinder head to help engine VE as much as possible. Big GT4094R turbo, and only 19 psi stable boost.

    <img src="http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=559053"/>

    I really like this power curve. Nearly 600 lbs rwtq from 4200 to 6000. Lots of get up and go. No need to wait until 6000 to get moving. The drop off of 100 lbs to redline is no big deal to me, since it is making great horsepower at that point.
    See now that's a powerband I can get used to

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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Infammus 1 View Post
    See now that's a powerband I can get used to
    The problem is that you will get use to it and will want more

    Sent from my GTX3582R
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  24. #124
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    I have a snow meth system. It's OK but its boost activated. Spend a little extra and get an aquamist that's activated off injector duty cycle. Much more accurate.

    For boost control you have a couple options. The eboost2 is great. It offers multiple boost settings. You'll need a separate wideband. I use the Innovate SCG-1 boost controller\wideband. I've been extremely happy with it. It offers boost triggered failsafe and AFR triggered failsafe. I like the standard sized gauge pod vs the larger eboost2. The only downside ive seen is the SCG-1 only offers 1 boost setting. Settings are easy to change on the fly but some people prefer multiple settings. It hasn't been an issue for me. A big plus is the SCG-1 is less expensive than eboost2 and it includes a wideband.

    You're probably going to want some kind of data logging. I've looked into lots of systems. The one that Butters has is the best hands down. He can give you more details. If you're budget is tight BMW logger is very inexpensive. Innovate offers some options beyond the free stuff. In all honesty I'm not impressed with their data logging software.

    There's been almost no discussion of your drivetrain. Maybe you're all set on that part. I know from my experience with the New England forum you're looking at a pretty big investment if you're planning on taking a big step over that 500hp threshold.

    As far as turbo choices.... I love my setup but its not for everyone. I've got a gt35r with a .63ar exhaust housing on a T4 SPA manifold and a Tial 38mm wastegate. That setup spools about as quick as anything you'll see. I do almost entirely street driving around town. A few drag strip runs. This setup starts spooling at 2800. Also running a NickG tune, 42lb injectors, walbro 255 pump, stock FPR, 3" vband exhaust. My gt35r does not hit hard. It's extremely smooth.

    There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple your first time out of the gate. Bigger fuel pump would mean aftermarket FPR and more $$$$ bigger turbo probably means bigger exhaust and more $$$$ it all gets more expensive and more complicated.

    just saying.....500hp is a nice place to live. Especially if you don't live at the track.

    Figure out what your budget is. Budget drives the bus. My choices were pretty easy to make. I bought a used tune and built my setup around it. You've heard the old saying "there's always a faster car"? Same thing holds true for turbos. Theres always a better turbo. Just choose one and move on.
    Last edited by flyfishvt; 01-01-2016 at 10:25 AM.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    The problem is that you will get use to it and will want more

    Sent from my GTX3582R
    True story

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