An N/A guy looking to the darkside. Help me build boost!

[pbonsalb]

There needs to be a standard for measuring boost response that is easy for everyone to apply. Like a steady 2000 rpm cruise in each gear. Then floor it and record the rpm at which you get 20 psi. Or a dynojet with boost log. Otherwise its a bunch of butt dynos or one persons logging tool vs another or what someone thinks they saw.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

There needs to be a standard for measuring boost response that is easy for everyone to apply. Like a steady 2000 rpm cruise in each gear. Then floor it and record the rpm at which you get 20 psi. Or a dynojet with boost log. Otherwise its a bunch of butt dynos or one persons logging tool vs another or what someone thinks they saw.

Agreed, just have to remember gearing makes a difference as well.

[pbonsalb]

OK. Disclose gearing as well. Weight also makes a difference, so that should be disclosed also. And the turbine housing AR should be listed along with the turbo size. And the manifold brand and whether it is open or twinscroll. And whether the fuel is pump or E85. And the displacement of the motor and compression. And the cams.

A 2000 rpm roll at least has everyone doing the same test. Right now, one guy might have a brand X datalog, one guy reports what he sees on the gauges, and one guy has a dynojet boost log and probably for the same turbo on the same car they would all differ.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

OK. Disclose gearing as well. Weight also makes a difference, so that should be disclosed also. And the turbine housing AR should be listed along with the turbo size. And the manifold brand and whether it is open or twinscroll. And whether the fuel is pump or E85. And the displacement of the motor and compression. And the cams.

A 2000 rpm roll at least has everyone doing the same test. Right now, one guy might have a brand X datalog, one guy reports what he sees on the gauges, and one guy has a dynojet boost log and probably for the same turbo on the same car they would all differ.

Well the more we know about said setup, the better we can make sense of the findings...

[Da Infammus 1]

Sounds like what I was saying earlier!

Bf.c FI needs to stop fearing the large turbos.

I don't fear large turbos. I fear large price tag and long wait times to complete the car lol.

Never did any research on GTW turbos Butters, and links to info?

[Butters Stoch]

I don't fear large turbos. I fear large price tag and long wait times to complete the car lol.

Never did any research on GTW turbos Butters, and links to info?

There isn't a whole lot out there. They are new as of last year. Garrett wanted to put out a series of turbos to compete with the Precision lineup.
Basically real close in wheel sizes. The BB turbos are water cooled.
Couple here running them. They are very happy.
They basically have the 58/62/64/67mm turbos available. Price is awesome and should be "Garrett reliable".

[e30polak]

There isn't a whole lot out there. They are new as of last year. Garrett wanted to put out a series of turbos to compete with the Precision lineup.
Basically real close in wheel sizes. The BB turbos are water cooled.
Couple here running them. They are very happy.
They basically have the 58/62/64/67mm turbos available. Price is awesome and should be "Garrett reliable".

I know Chelsea Denofa switched from a gtx3582r to a gtw3884 and made more power on less boost, and similar spool.

[Butters Stoch]

I know Chelsea Denofa switched from a gtx3582r to a gtw3884 and made more power on less boost, and similar spool.

I'd love to see info on that.

[vollosso]

In what gear?

I was getting 25psi in 2nd at 4500, and 25psi in 3rd about 300rpm sooner.

Large 4 inch core and 3 inch piping from the compressor cover.

Lazy journal bearing holset on a stock compression 2.8, so a slightly lower comp 3.3 should come on sooner.

I do most of my stuff in 3rd gear and log everything to the little AEM.

I think its a bit apples to oranges. 1100hp turbo with a 68*92.5 compressor | 78.75*70 turbine. I don't remember, are you hx40 with a 64mm? That make you like 64-65 and maybe an 750hp turbo?

Sounds like what I was saying earlier!

Bf.c FI needs to stop fearing the large turbos.

Yeah I mean I thought the old 64mm was gonna be a "big turbo" when I bought it but I think I wouldn't go any smaller on a 3L++. I think the 6870 is honestly the right choice for a 3.3l and for a 2.8-2.999 I would probably go 6466.

Dyno? Logs?

I can upload logs, I have ordered new tires and am getting adjustable lower control arms and an alignment. I also need more fuel TBH.. but ill eventually hit a dyno.

- - - Updated - - -

There needs to be a standard for measuring boost response that is easy for everyone to apply. Like a steady 2000 rpm cruise in each gear. Then floor it and record the rpm at which you get 20 psi. Or a dynojet with boost log. Otherwise its a bunch of butt dynos or one persons logging tool vs another or what someone thinks they saw.

Agreed, just have to remember gearing makes a difference as well.

OK. Disclose gearing as well. Weight also makes a difference, so that should be disclosed also. And the turbine housing AR should be listed along with the turbo size. And the manifold brand and whether it is open or twinscroll. And whether the fuel is pump or E85. And the displacement of the motor and compression. And the cams.

A 2000 rpm roll at least has everyone doing the same test. Right now, one guy might have a brand X datalog, one guy reports what he sees on the gauges, and one guy has a dynojet boost log and probably for the same turbo on the same car they would all differ.

I will try and find time to post logs later with a 1 bar spring, gate only, from 2000rpm, with 3.15 rear in 3rd.. logged at 20hz.. Oh my poor third gear.
Edit: But I mean im vanos off, on soft timing with base tune AFR so there is a good bit to be gained.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I will try and find time to post logs later with a 1 bar spring, gate only, from 2000rpm, with 3.15 rear in 3rd.. logged at 20hz.. Oh my poor third gear.
Edit: But I mean im vanos off, on soft timing with base tune AFR so there is a good bit to be gained.

Other than your VANOS being off (why?), that would be good test.. spring only, no controller.

I'd like to see how it is vs my 4094R on a softer spring (13 psi) combo on my 2.9

[pbonsalb]

Do 4th since that is what is usually done on the dyno, creates good load, reduces wheelspin, and is less breakage prone.

[vollosso]

Do 4th since that is what is usually done on the dyno, creates good load, reduces wheelspin, and is less breakage prone.

Other than your VANOS being off (why?), that would be good test.. spring only, no controller.

I'd like to see how it is vs my 4094R on a softer spring (13 psi) combo on my 2.9

Jeeze, ill see if I can find enough highway for that :p

Vanos was acting funny and giving me codes, I pulled the top end apart twice thinking it was cam timing. Eventually just disabled it in the code so I didn't have a CEL. Wasn't an issue with the old instaspool-turbo. I have a spare vanos unit now and just need to rebuild it and install it, just been too busy..

hah I think its actually a 13.5# so it would be a great datapoint. I can export to CSV and you can overlay them if you'd like. Do a pull and also note your current ATMO conditions and lets compare.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Jeeze, ill see if I can find enough highway for that :p

Vanos was acting funny and giving me codes, I pulled the top end apart twice thinking it was cam timing. Eventually just disabled it in the code so I didn't have a CEL. Wasn't an issue with the old instaspool-turbo. I have a spare vanos unit now and just need to rebuild it and install it, just been too busy..

hah I think its actually a 13.5# so it would be a great datapoint. I can export to CSV and you can overlay them if you'd like. Do a pull and also note your current ATMO conditions and lets compare.

My car is down right now.. but I have a log starting from 3rd to 4th somewhere from a few months back (so warmer weather) for now. I'll get a current one once the car is back together though because I can't wait to drive it again lol.

[vollosso]

so ill just do a 3rd from 2k-4th redline
and a 4th from 2k on my way home today.

- - - Updated - - -

4th gear 6870 2200 rpm.PNG
hah i have no idea what happened with this log but imagine my shock when i look down and see like 20 psi haha.

2200 rpm start, flat surface, 83* F, no vanos.

I need to check the couplers and wastegate I guess, havent turned a wrench in a few weeks.

[chikinhed]

I was having intermittent Vanos issues a while back and it ended up being a small piece of poo in the small orifice at the bottom of the banjo bolt threads on the vanos.

[Butters Stoch]

10# at 4k ?

[chikinhed]

10# at 4k ?

I wouldn't be bragging about that.

[E36 HateR]

I wouldn't be bragging about that.

Same.

[vollosso]

Wow uploads a log for transparency.. You guys are really something..

Its a 13.5# spring, it should make 9-10# and then be mostly open. it will be 100% open by 13.5#. Its clearly creeping after that for some reason, for the first time I have seen just today.

Everyone wonders why there's nothing posted, no transparency, and nothing happening on BFC... this is why.. you guys immediately hate before thinking.. I dont get it.

[E36 HateR]

You said full boost by 4200, i thought you meant 20psi by then. With the higher spring pressure it will spool better.

[Butters Stoch]

Gate looks like it cracked at 4k then hit target at 5k.
In 3rd gear with a 6870 that might be right on par.

I talked with Reid today from Sound Performance about the 6870 vs 6466. He has probably more experience than anyone with those turbos. Unfortunately for me without being able to run high pressures, or e85 he said it would be a loss. These turbos are meant for big powers and big boosts.

[chikinhed]

Wow uploads a log for transparency.. You guys are really something.. Everyone wonders why there's nothing posted, no transparency, and nothing happening on BFC... this is why.. you guys immediately hate before thinking.. I dont get it.

Honesty, I didn't even see the graph or know who Butters was referring to, I was just responding to what Butters had said. It was a total peanut gallery remark, wasn't trying to hate.

That thing must have felt like a rocket ship by 20 psi.

[e30kid89]

Gate looks like it cracked at 4k then hit target at 5k. In 3rd gear with a 6870 that might be right on par. I talked with Reid today from Sound Performance about the 6870 vs 6466. He has probably more experience than anyone with those turbos. Unfortunately for me without being able to run high pressures, or e85 he said it would be a loss. These turbos are meant for big powers and big boosts.

Yeah, I didn't get to run mine on pump gas but it wouldn't great. Why not consider the 6766? Pump gas friendly and still good for high 8-low 900whp if you decide to max it out one day.

[hsvturbo]

These turbos are meant for big powers and big boosts.

Did he provide you with any data to justify this statement? (Specifically on a bmw engine)

[Butters Stoch]

Did he provide you with any data to justify this statement? (Specifically on a bmw engine)

Think its pretty well known that these gen2 wheels like high pressures.
They did some back to back testing back in the day using a 6266 gen2 vs a 6266 gen1 and until you got up in the 25# land the gen1 was beating the gen2. But, after that game over.
They are a supra shop tho. I want to say they built an e46 m3 years ago with over 1k whp, but I don't really follow other stuff.