1992 E36 Coupe Electric Rear Vents -Retrofit

[bmw4life92]

Its Pin 2 on my comfort relay that is open. Trying to insert a "pin" into the relay socket,,
I cant seem to get these "pins" to go all the way into the relay socket and hook up. Do I need new ones? I tried recycling some old ones from the M3 harness.

Thanks,

[johnf]

Its Pin 2 on my comfort relay that is open. Trying to insert a "pin" into the relay socket,,
I cant seem to get these "pins" to go all the way into the relay socket and hook up....

You first need to remove or raise the plastic piece that is between the cubic base and the relay, that cradles the relay. The cradle stops a contact from coming out of the base if the metal barbs on the contact fail. It also stops a new contact from going in.

[bmw4life92]

You first need to remove or raise the plastic piece that is between the cubic base and the relay, that cradles the relay. The cradle stops a contact from coming out of the base if the metal barbs on the contact fail. It also stops a new contact from going in.

Thanks man! I didnt get it at first so I tried splicing the fused vent circuit to the sunroof power wire+ the BLACK/RED "activation" wire from K113 to the VIOLET/YELLOW activation wire on comfort relay and grounded switches, seems as if the comfort relay died when trying to send power to the vents thru sunroof wire, a loud wierd noice occured, like a switch was turned back and forth a million times a second kinda,, if you understand what I mean, a bad electrical sound from relay,, and now the sunroof is unresponsive.

Is this a blown comfort relay, should I be looking for a replacement? or is it a fuse somewhere? I dont know.

Had I just gotten this pin into Pin2 slot before doing this splicing, it migh have worked.

[DJ Genius]

I just had another look at your pictures. Weirdly you have a big RED/YELLOW wire coming out as an OUTPUT of your Comfort Relay. Can you see where it goes?

[bmw4life92]

I just had another look at your pictures. Weirdly you have a big RED/YELLOW wire coming out as an OUTPUT of your Comfort Relay. Can you see where it goes?

Not quite, it goes down towards the footrest, to X13 or X14 mby?

[DJ Genius]

The most basic relays usually have a power, ground and a signal wire. Power and ground wires could be always connected, but the relay's latch is "OFF", hence the current is not flowing through the relay. By supplying a little bit of power through signal wire you make the latch "close" and turn the relay "ON", now the current is flowing through relay.
Most popular 4-pin generic relays usually have separate output pins. So you supply power to power pin (30), ground to ground pin (86) - nothing happens until you give a signal through the signal pin (85) and turn the relay on, then the power travels through separate output pin (87).
5-pin relays have 2 output pins 87 and 87a. When the relay is "OFF", the latch inside the relay is connected to to pin 87a, therefore the current flows through relay to the output pin 87a. When there is a signal and relay is switched "ON", the latch inside the relay is connected to pin 87 and current flows through it. With 5-pin relays there is no really ON or OFF states anymore, it's one active output or the other, relay is never OFF really.

Since there is on unused pin in Comfort Relay, it does look like standard 5-pin relay. However, Hinged Window Relay looks like 6-pin relay and is more sophisticated.
That BLACK/RED wire acts more like a "ground" activation. It is like if you supply power (+) to the bulb, the bulb will not work until you connect it to the ground. So it is the same with Hinged Window relay. BLACK/RED wire acts as a ground and pulls the current, RED/BROWN is a power wire. You need to supply this relay with power through RED/BROWN wire not BLACK/RED.

[bmw4life92]

Like the comfort relay I have originaly, wich I might have fried, these relays are also 5 pin, and they have 87 and 87 or 87b, (double relays/2 output pins),, they are way cheaper than the original comfort relay.

The blue one in the pic is the new version/ part number, of the one I have, I think its the same internally, the pin outs look the same.

So i'm wondering if these would do the same. I will try to get a cheap used comfort relay from someone local ofc.

BTW, Genius, Should I just ground the BLACK/RED "signalwire" from K113? Is that what you meant?

Peace,

[mgoods50]

You guys are awesome for fitting this mod. Is one of my favorites; I always wanted this one but gave up sourcing parts.

[DJ Genius]

Like the comfort relay I have originaly, wich I might have fried, these relays are also 5 pin, and they have 87 and 87 or 87b, (double relays/2 output pins),, they are way cheaper than the original comfort relay.

Yes, the first two are almost identical. The newer blue one is different internally as it has a micro transistor that helps to divert high power that's been reduced by a resistor to the latching mechanism. But in the end, it does exactly the same - get power and ground, a signal to latch the relay and 2 outputs that are linked. So in your case, the pin 5 was already used, so all you need to do is tap into pin2 and you will get the same result.
Like I said to you in your PM, you can check if pin 5 and pin 2 are really link on relay by using a multimeter's continuity test.

[bmw4life92]

It's starting to look like something now,, got it taped up and layed out almost like it will be in the car.

The other power harness is my backup for retrofitting the ZKE 4 for the vents, if that turns out to be the only way.


Gonna get a multimeter and another comfort relay, then when/if I get the motor turning from pressing switch, the vent system will be installed.

Thanks for all the help guys

[bmw4life92]

I got the replacement comfort relay (the old type - same as I had) and still sunroof is dead and no power comes from Pin 2 of the relay.

I left the BLACK/RED wire from K113 unconnected and got power from the cigarette lighter just to test, and the motors turned when pressing the switch My only issue now is getting the "comfort" power to work, so the vents are locked and unlocked with the comfort relay.
I get no "click" from the comfort relay when turning the ignition on. Is there a fuse I should check? Or mby the ZVM is toast?

[DJ Genius]

Check your fuses.

[bmw4life92]

So now my sunroof works again and there is power to my vents coming out of comfort relay Pin2.
But it seems as if the comfort relay is activated all the time now. Before turning on ignition the sunroof is operational.
Probably the activating part at the ZVM end that got toasted back when splicing, and now comfort relay is constantly unlocked.

Have gotten my center armrest and console out, gonna get some holes cut for switches, and lay the wiring harness very soon. Just miss some bolts and nuts to mount the motors.
When everything is installed, i'll lay wires to fusebox and back to use the original "Rear Vent" Fuse 13.

I'll be back with pictures as I go along.

[DJ Genius]

Glad to hear that.
Comfort relay stays active for another 5min. or so after the ignition is off. So I think it works as it should. What did the guys do to fix the sunroof? Was it a fuse?

Another good news is I actually won the German eBay auction for electric rear vents. The ones you showed me, Håkon. A big thank you to you. I got it for 285 EUR (315 USD). Amazing how prices keep rising for these kits as BMW no longer supplies them.

[bmw4life92]

Glad to hear that.
Comfort relay stays active for another 5min. or so after the ignition is off. So I think it works as it should. What did the guys do to fix the sunroof? Was it a fuse?

Another good news is I actually won the German eBay auction for electric rear vents. The ones you showed me, Håkon. A big thank you to you. I got it for 285 EUR (315 USD). Amazing how prices keep rising for these kits as BMW no longer supplies them.

Thats the thing, the mechanic didnt do anyhting, he didnt have time to check the sunroof etc then and there cuz I had so many other important things to do to the car, it just came back xD I went out to the car in the morning, and unlocked the door, got in and pressed the sunroof button and it opened before i put key into igniton. I was suprised, it was dead after the wrong splicing that time. no power from Pin 2 either. But all of a sudden it was back.

Mby the activation wire to comfort relay from ZVM messed up the on and off switch/source in ZVM when spliced with the BLACK/RED wire from K113. And now it is unlocked all the time.

Opening the trunk , locked the trunk and passanger door. The car was inside the shop for 2,5 days and I imagine if there was moist in the broken trunk wiring it would act like this, but after it dried, opening the trunk was no problem, it didnt lock the door etc. But when I got it back and it got wet again, the trunk would lock itself and the passanger door..

But why power would just come back to the comfort relay, I dont know.

I'm glad to hear that you won the auction! Cheers BMW made sure E36 coupe with electric rear vents would be rare, when they stopped selling the retrofit wiring harnesses. I will make a few copies of the wiring when I have time and material, just for fun
Did your kit come with bolts n nuts to mount motors?
Electric rear vents will also raise the value and rareness of the car ;D


Peace

[johnf]

I got my hands on a ZVM module, Version 2, and took it apart. BMW made allowances for shorting its Komfort output (X13012 pin 9) to 12V, so in theory, tying the output to 12V through a rear vent window comfort-closing relay should not have burnt out the output. The output also has some overvoltage protection, but I have not worked out if can manage the back-EMF from a misapplied, vent window relay.

While both the ZVM and ZKE may be appear bullet proof under normal use and against typical faults, they may not be if you mod the car in ways their designers did not anticipate. Somehow, for example, a number of Z3 folk have burned out their ZKEs while retrofitting footwell lights. I believe I have found the IC that drives the ramped interior lighting, and on paper at least, the IC should make that hard to do.

[bmw4life92]

I dont know, the ZVM seems to be working normaly in other places, locking etc , while driving the other day, the sunroof didnt work during driving, but when I stood still and took the key out it worked.
Oh, and there is no illumination in the front window switches or the sunroof switch. Corroded connections under carped mby?
Have not checked the bulbs, but the lights above the sun visors are also dead.

I will probably just have the car looked at the nearest BMW shop, have them diagnose etc, its abit more costly to have them do it, but they have always figured out small wierd faults for me in the past.


Cut bigger holes in my console for the switches this morning, using a dremel. It turned out nice, good fit for the switch frames.
See picture below.

Measured and masked around the area wich would be removed and started cutting with a thin rotating cuting disc.
Rounded the corners and smoothed everything off with a small sandpaper "bit until the frames fit.

Picked up some Tesa clotch tape at a local Würth shop the other day, gonna get the harness wrapped up with this before install.
Not just for the original finish, but it is supposed to prevent wires vibrating etc.
Will run the wires for the motors trough the armrest base, (there is a small hole in it at the back where the rear bolt goes into the chassi) and under the carpet, coming up and going to each side under the rear seat.

Btw, picked up some bolts for mounting the motors the other day, M6x10 and M6x12+ washers and locking nuts, will get some M6x16 also, incase I need longer than 12mm bolts.

Deleted my first reply by mistake on my "smart"-phone.

[bmw4life92]

Just finished wrapping my wiring harness with Tesa tape, now its ready to go into the car!
Will buy the last bolts tomorrow, M6x16.

Have never taken of the side panels/door cards in the back of coupe before, is it just clips? How do I proceed?

Thanks,

[bmw4life92]

Finished the install today. Finally!

Clip of the right vent in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjzSgWep8Tk

You can clearly see when the hinge reaches its max open and closed position, so for now I'll keep an eye on them while opening/closing, and see if I am able to get them one-touch and "smart" with moded WC1000's like johnf's system later.

So there it is, for early models with a comfort relay, follow the rear vent pin outs supplied by DJ Genius earlier in the thread. And leave Pin 7 of K113 relay open. Get power from Comfort relay Pin 2.


Something is up with my ZVM or there is some corrosion somewhere, cuz power for the sunroof and vents (both from comfort relay) comes and goes. Gonna take it to BMW and get the issue taken care of soon.



Thanks for all the help everyone!

[DJ Genius]

Glad to hear you managed to wire it up and finish it.
I shall post here when I do mine and if I find a way to wire them with a one-touch feature OEM style

[johnf]

Good job.

I expect to order a spare Autoloc WC1000 module over the next couple months, to see if it has changed, then modify it to control an electric rear vent window. I will take pictures this time.

[bmw4life92]

Great!

Thank you John!

[bmw4life92]

For easy entering & tightening of vent motors nuts.
Use some tape on wrench to hold the nut when inserting and entering bolts.

[johnf]

I expect to order a spare Autoloc WC1000 module over the next couple months, to see if it has changed, then modify it to control an electric rear vent window....

The WC1000 module I received looks unchanged other than substituting some (Chinese?) capacitors and relays I can not find with Google.

[bmw4life92]

Okai, still needs modding?
I have not had enough money to get the one touch module yet.
What kind of size resistors should I get btw?