Spring lessons - Stock vs H&E OE Sport vs H&R Sport

[TakiM3]

Okay - so I've once again taken the wheels off to finagle with the springs and pads. I chucked the old 5mm pads (more like 2mm after 17 years on the job), I cut the "nipples" off of some new 7.5mm pads and stacked them above my new 10mm pads. Slapped it all back together and now I'm riding right around 12.25-12.375" in the rear, roundel center to fender edge. I keep getting a different measurement after driving it a few times to help it settle. Anyhow, I think I like it now finally!

File Aug 27, 11 54 17 AM.jpg

[zactastic]

i really appreciate everyone input here, measurements, photos and divided opinions. Since my car wont be a daily driver, I'm going to go with H&R sports with 15mm pad in the rear with Bilstein's. I had this set up on my GTI and loved the ride and that car was a DD for me at the time. I don't get how lower isn't better (if i was to go for a couple of track days per year) as mentioned earlier in this thread. I honestly like the oem stock setup in the rear yet i do see why everyone wants to drop the front 1 inch as there is more wheel gap per se. The right look and feel can be obtained.

[tsmith25]

When people say that "lower isn't better", what they really mean is "too low isn't better". It is down to the suspension geometry. The roll center, and camber curves. The rear geometry gains negative camber as it compresses, or gets lower, and the front camber gain is minimal, and can actually do the opposite if the car is too low, which will make it understeer more, or you have to run tons of static camber up front to fix it, which will start to eat tires at that level regardless of toe setting(typically minimal toe increases tire life). Here is a good article about roll center.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...ll-Center.aspx

[Mless5]

Thanks. In any case, I look forward to my Koni/Eibach!

Hating my Eibach springs to be honest. Feels like I am riding on bump stops. Front spring is too short.

[RightYouAreKen]

Hating my Eibach springs to be honest. Feels like I am riding on bump stops. Front spring is too short.

Did you cut your stock bumpstops? The H&R instructions require you to do so. I missed that, and initially installed the sport springs without doing so. As you said, it was terrible, with the car hitting the bump stops on nearly every small imperfection. I cut 0.75" as recommended in the instructions and it made a world of difference.

<edit> Here's a better link to the H&R instructions - http://www.hrsprings.com/tech/hr_technical_info.pdf </edit>

[bimma360]

Did you cut your stock bumpstops? The H&R instructions require you to do so. I missed that, and initially installed the sport springs without doing so. As you said, it was terrible, with the car hitting the bump stops on nearly every small imperfection. I cut 0.75" as recommended in the instructions and it made a world of difference.

https://www.carid.com/images/h-r/inf...nical_info.pdf

SOB... I installed new sports w/koni's in the spring and totally didn't do that. I can't believe I missed it with the included info. The ride still feels great compared to the Bilsteins that were on there before... hahah. I can't believe I'll have to remove the fronts again. Man that sucks.

[tsmith25]

SOB... I installed new sports w/koni's in the spring and totally didn't do that. I can't believe I missed it with the included info. The ride still feels great compared to the Bilsteins that were on there before... hahah. I can't believe I'll have to remove the fronts again. Man that sucks.

You might be able to just pull the wheel and carefully cut the stops while the suspension is still on the car. I would try first before I started pulling everything off.

[Ex36]

I think I skipped that step, too. And I've looked at it and don't see why you couldn't just take an X-acto to the bump stops in place, without disassembling them. I also don't see how something relatively soft (IIRC they can be squeezed by hand), in comparison to the forces involved, really makes much of any difference?

[weedshoes]

You can buy bump stops for lowered cars.

[weedshoes]

When I drove a H&R equipped e36 back to back with an Eibach equipped e36, the first thing I noticed about the H&R setup was how crappy turn-in was. Dropping the roll center below ground causes unreal amounts of body roll. Even though the center of gravity is technically slightly lower, the roll center is significantly lower, consequently the roll couple is much longer and body roll is tremendous.

There I was, comparing an automatic e36 sedan with no power steering on eibachs to a 5 speed coupe on H&Rs and the body roll on turn in was the most noticeable difference in handling.

[zactastic]

...There I was, comparing an automatic e36 sedan with no power steering on eibachs to a 5 speed coupe on H&Rs and the body roll on turn in was the most noticeable difference in handling.

great quote!

[Nate047]

High is good. I like to be high, and so does my car.

[bluptgm3]

Just figured I'd come back and say that since i scrapped the oem struts recently-- i decided to just get something better. I ordered a set of GC street/touring C/o's. If i had the oem stuff still i'd have tried the koni inserts.

LOL!!! You are getting the Koni inserts in the Ground Control or TCKline coil overs…oh and you will most likely need 5mm spacers up front to clear the spring and lower spring perch.


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[weedshoes]

LOL!!! You are getting the Koni inserts in the Ground Control or TCKline coil overs…


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If you're suggesting that the koni shocks in ground-control and TCKline kits are off the shelf koni yellows, you're entirely incorrect.

[propcar]

If you're suggesting that the koni shocks in ground-control and TCKline kits are off the shelf koni yellows, you're entirely incorrect.

I had read that under certain circumstances like low-stock situations or something, GC/TCKline had sent Porsche 911 off the shelf shocks with top adjusters for the rear shocks. The front coilovers obviously have to be designed in house and I believe they are typically serialized as unique.

[bluptgm3]

I had read that under certain circumstances like low-stock situations or something, GC/TCKline had sent Porsche 911 off the shelf shocks with top adjusters for the rear shocks.

TCKlein offers the 12mm shaft top adjustable rear shocks for E36.
I would be very surprised to learn that the 911 length rear shock was 'universal' fitment.


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[Mless5]

I am not running any at the moment, but I was able to locate OEM short ones and will be installing them this weekend. As much as I hate to say it, so far my beater 328is with Bilstein and BavAuto front, stock IS rear springs rides a million times better than my m3 . I'll report back ones bump stops have been installed and I put some miles on the updated setup.

Did you cut your stock bumpstops? The H&R instructions require you to do so. I missed that, and initially installed the sport springs without doing so. As you said, it was terrible, with the car hitting the bump stops on nearly every small imperfection. I cut 0.75" as recommended in the instructions and it made a world of difference.

<edit> Here's a better link to the H&R instructions - http://www.hrsprings.com/tech/hr_technical_info.pdf </edit>

[RRSperry]

The top adjustable 911 shock isn't universal, but it works quite well in an E36.

[bluptgm3]

I had read that under certain circumstances like low-stock situations or something, GC/TCKline had sent Porsche 911 off the shelf shocks with top adjusters for the rear shocks.

Any particular year or model(s)?


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[RRSperry]

Iirc, it's 8210-1159

[persiandude]

SOB... I installed new sports w/koni's in the spring and totally didn't do that. I can't believe I missed it with the included info. The ride still feels great compared to the Bilsteins that were on there before... hahah. I can't believe I'll have to remove the fronts again. Man that sucks.

I have older H&R Sports in the back (part# 29936 HA black) and I am putting in Koni Yellows this weekend. Not sure what I will do for spring pads But I called H&R today to ask about cutting the bump stops and the guy quickly said - don't cut your bump stops however everything I have read on here and other threads says there are instructions in the H&R sports that specifically say to cut the bump stops

[persiandude]

I believe Koni only offers the insert for E36 M3s. That's what I went with. It wasn't too much of a pain to install if you have an angle grinder, drill, and bench vise.

yeah doesnt seem too bad after watching this - having a vice is the main thing.
This guy released the top and let the strut housing shoot a little bit backward while it was laying on the ground just shy of the 3minute mark

[RRSperry]

Yeah, that's not the way I'd do it. Just go rent spring compressors at an auto parts store.

If you don't have air tools, I'm sure there is someone local to you that does, and would be willing to help.

As for pads. I order things like that from my dealer. With my BMW CCA discount it's pretty reasonable and they usually can get everything the next day. But, I've been dealing with them for 20 years...lol

[zactastic]

Hey guys, Im going camping but i got up early to make some purchases. what's the part number for the 95 M3 "top hats"? cheers

[bluptgm3]

The following pulled from www.realoem.com for 1995M3
Upper spring plate 31332227348
Upper spring pad 31331128523
Conical washer 31332227342
Dust seal 31331110196
Bump stop 31332225377
Protection tube 31331137932
Lower spring pad 31331124322


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