Spring lessons - Stock vs H&E OE Sport vs H&R Sport

[Mless5]

Yes

Thanks. Bummer, but oh well - still will be better than what's in it now!

[weedshoes]

Thanks. Bummer, but oh well - still will be better than what's in it now!

Don't be upset, the eibachs are much better springs.

The H&r springs let the front sit too low and drop the roll center below the ground. Makes the car get lots of body roll and bump steer that won't be there with the eibachs.

The rear DOES sit lower with eibachs, which isn't detrimental to handling because of the design of the rear suspension.

[Mless5]

Thanks. In any case, I look forward to my Koni/Eibach!

[Brown9348]

^youll be fine either way.. i doubt the difference between the two is huge.

[bostonaudi]

Don't be upset, the eibachs are much better springs.

The H&r springs let the front sit too low and drop the roll center below the ground. Makes the car get lots of body roll and bump steer that won't be there with the eibachs.

The rear DOES sit lower with eibachs, which isn't detrimental to handling because of the design of the rear suspension.

This is why i went with H&R O.E. sport springs on my 95, to keep the front higher. Low is bad. High is good. I like to be high, and so does my car. I also track my M3 3-4 times a year, OE sports, Koni's and swapped strut hats work well, and car stays street friendly. The spring rates are a little on the soft side for the track, it rolls a bit in quick transitions, not end of world.

OE sports:

[DamnYank]

This is why i went with H&R O.E. sport springs on my 95, to keep the front higher. Low is bad. High is good. I like to be high, and so does my car. I also track my M3 3-4 times a year, OE sports, Koni's and swapped strut hats work well, and car stays street friendly. The spring rates are a little on the soft side for the track, it rolls a bit in quick transitions, not end of world.

Agreed. Similar setup on my 95, plus some misc bushings and sway bars (UUC -not recommended). Car handles very nicely, complemented by riders, both on the twisties and during HPDEs (its been to AMP and Barber).

[Brown9348]

Just figured I'd come back and say that since i scrapped the oem struts recently-- i decided to just get something better. I ordered a set of GC street/touring C/o's. If i had the oem stuff still i'd have tried the koni inserts.

[bostonaudi]

Agreed. Similar setup on my 95, plus some misc bushings and sway bars (UUC -not recommended). Car handles very nicely, complemented by riders, both on the twisties and during HPDEs (its been to AMP and Barber).

My car had UUC sways when I got it, curious why you don't recommend. I ended taking mine off as I didn't feel they were necessary, and big sways raise hell with the mounts.

[Omairtheman1]

What would you guys suggest for a street driven E36 1995 going through an entire suspension overhaul? I will never take the car to a track but wouldn't mind a little less roll in the corners. I also hate harshness and suspension that's stiffly sprung and gets agitated over rough roads fairly easily.

I was going to go with TCKline S/A with F300/R400 + camber plates but my mechanic suggested against it. He says to do my research and come back with a strut spring answer because of my wants on the road.

[weedshoes]

koni with eibach sport and swapped 96+ mounts if you want more camber, otherwise leave the mounts you have.

[Omairtheman1]

But I've noticed that Koni's are the insert types into stock struts. I am not trying to cut a front strut. Does Koni sell built struts?

[weedshoes]

You're right about that, they are inserts. But they are on special right now on tirerack. I wouldn't let the strut housing mod deter you. it is simple.

[Omairtheman1]

I don't want to go that route. I just think I can use Bilstein HD with OE sport springs to get me the balance I want. What are your thoughts on that?

[RRSperry]

I'd say you were making a mistake with Bilsteins vs Koni inserts. Bilstein still have, (and always had), way too much high speed compression damping. Making real world roads very harsh.

In my 20 years of owning my car, being involved with the CCA, racing SCCA, Suzy's list, DTM Power, Bimmerforums, M3Forum, Bimmerfest,,, The best ride is OE. Period. If that's all you want, go OE. If you want a better shock with a bit more control, the Koni inserts can't be beat. That assumes you aren't planning on lowering the car more than about 0.5" The E36 have really limited front suspension travel. (that's why the Ground Control short strut housings work so well. You don't give up as much travel) That's why the Dinan, or the OE Sport springs work well. They only lower the car about a 1/2". (but you have to get the 95 top spring hats to use the H&R.)

If you start really slamming the E36 you run into all sorts of issues. (as noted in above posts)


So... If you are looking for street comfort and controlled ride. Don't slam the car, use Koni, don't use stiff springs, and control body roll with a set of bars. Learn to love the wheel gap...lol You can't have it all...

[bostonaudi]

^ yup, what BMW delivered works just fine, nothing wrong with Sachs replacements. If you don't want to cut your struts, buy another used worn out pair and cut those for the Koni's.

Bilsteins on these cars work great at the track, daily, not so much so.

[olemiss540]

I'd say you were making a mistake with Bilsteins vs Koni inserts. Bilstein still have, (and always had), way too much high speed compression damping. Making real world roads very harsh.

In my 20 years of owning my car, being involved with the CCA, racing SCCA, Suzy's list, DTM Power, Bimmerforums, M3Forum, Bimmerfest,,, The best ride is OE. Period. If that's all you want, go OE. If you want a better shock with a bit more control, the Koni inserts can't be beat. That assumes you aren't planning on lowering the car more than about 0.5" The E36 have really limited front suspension travel. (that's why the Ground Control short strut housings work so well. You don't give up as much travel) That's why the Dinan, or the OE Sport springs work well. They only lower the car about a 1/2". (but you have to get the 95 top spring hats to use the H&R.)

If you start really slamming the E36 you run into all sorts of issues. (as noted in above posts)

So... If you are looking for street comfort and controlled ride. Don't slam the car, use Koni, don't use stiff springs, and control body roll with a set of bars. Learn to love the wheel gap...lol You can't have it all...

+1. If you are dead set on not modifying OEM housings, just call ground control and get a setup for street only use. Use the stock front strut mounts, some GC front/rear shocks, and as soft of springs as GC recommends. As long as you do not lower it more than a half inch, you will be good to go. Camber plates seem unnecessary for your use and can add NVH.

[Edsta74]

I recently swapped out my H&R Sports with Koni's for a more street friendly H&R OE Sport with Sachs SST. I bought the car with the first set up and could get it out fast enough. The ride was horrible IMO. Too bouncy and way too low for me. Especially for a daily driver in NYC. The OE Sports with the Sachs have been night and day different! I can finally drive it without worrying about every bump, roadway plate or speed bump.

before:
20150406_070456_zpsk5lwdsjx.jpg

after:
0C508538-E951-4E95-B9EF-7A6B5D2947DA_zpsjnr3ye97.JPG

[Omairtheman1]

Ok on the coilover side because clearly Bilstein dropped the ball according to most on the forums, can I get V1's or TCKline Single Adjustable with 300F/400R spring rates to mimick an OEM+ ride? I just really don't like the Koni insert aspect. If Koni was doing so well, they should've came up with a housing. Not knocking on the dampening or the credibility of Koni's (I know they've been around for a long long time) but really don't want to use a 21 year old strut housing. I rather spend a little more now then go through the process of taking stuff in and out.

[weedshoes]

Koni makes a full housing for the 325i, but it won't have the sway bar tab.

[RRSperry]

Ok on the coilover side because clearly Bilstein dropped the ball according to most on the forums, can I get V1's or TCKline Single Adjustable with 300F/400R spring rates to mimick an OEM+ ride? I just really don't like the Koni insert aspect. If Koni was doing so well, they should've came up with a housing. Not knocking on the dampening or the credibility of Koni's (I know they've been around for a long long time) but really don't want to use a 21 year old strut housing. I rather spend a little more now then go through the process of taking stuff in and out.

Sorry, but that's just silly... It's steel. Have them media blasted, and powder coated. No matter what coilover you go with, it will lower the car more than 0.5". Most start at 1.2"

Hey, it's your car, do what you want... Reinvent the wheel as much as you want...

[olemiss540]

Wow. Just a beautiful example you have there. Amazing how a clean, OEM example can look this good after soooo many years. Mine looked similar before the transformation to track car...

This is why i went with H&R O.E. sport springs on my 95, to keep the front higher. Low is bad. High is good. I like to be high, and so does my car. I also track my M3 3-4 times a year, OE sports, Koni's and swapped strut hats work well, and car stays street friendly. The spring rates are a little on the soft side for the track, it rolls a bit in quick transitions, not end of world.

OE sports:

- - - Updated - - -

Call Ground Control already.

The answer to all of your questions will be on the other end of the line.

Ok on the coilover side because clearly Bilstein dropped the ball according to most on the forums, can I get V1's or TCKline Single Adjustable with 300F/400R spring rates to mimick an OEM+ ride? I just really don't like the Koni insert aspect. If Koni was doing so well, they should've came up with a housing. Not knocking on the dampening or the credibility of Koni's (I know they've been around for a long long time) but really don't want to use a 21 year old strut housing. I rather spend a little more now then go through the process of taking stuff in and out.

TXBDAN has a set of rear shocks brand new in the classifieds. Save some money buying from a fellow enthusiast that is well respected....

[DamnYank]

My car had UUC sways when I got it, curious why you don't recommend. I ended taking mine off as I didn't feel they were necessary, and big sways raise hell with the mounts.

The rear bar is not the proper size / length (at least in the batch mine came from & a friend ordered around same time and had exact same issue). Horrid customer service TRYING to get a resolution.

[TakiM3]

RightYouAreKen,
What is your ride height in the front and rear, measured from center of hub roundel to edge of fender after you installed the H&R Sports and 10mm pads in the rear? Just curious if you've made these measurements and have them handy. In the last week I went from Koni SA + Dinan springs (front felt like a 4x4, I like the rear) to swapping out to H&R Sports, to swapping out the stock top hats to 10mm. I still feel like I'm tucking in the rear more than I care to. Keep in mind that I have a coupe too. Here are my measurements before and after:

Dinan:
FR: 13.75"
FL: 13.75"
RR: 12.75"
RL: 12.75"

H&R Sports w/stock top hats
FR: 13.25"
FL: 13.25"
RR: 11.625"
RL: 11.625"

H&R Sports w/10mm pads
FR: 13.25"
FL: 13.25"
RR: 12.0"
RL: 12.0"

I'll sleep on it for a bit, but I may switch to 15mm pads, or cut of the protrusion on the stock 5mm pads and stack them above the 10mm pads to see what happens (unless that's a terrible idea for some reason).

[RightYouAreKen]

Interesting. I just went to the garage and measured for you. This is with the Sport springs and 10mm rear spring top pad.

My measurements from the center of the roundel to the fender lip are:
Both fronts - 13 1/8"
Both rears - 12 15/16"

5mm is only 0.2". Even considering the effective change at the hub should be greater than that, I'm not sure you'll get to where I'm at with just the 15mm pads.

I recall reading that some H&R Sport spring kits had shorter rear springs during some part of their production run. I got my springs used so don't know how old they are (probably a few years at most). Are yours brand new?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TakiM3]

Thanks a ton for checking man, I really appreciate it! I think I'm going to slice the "nipple" off of my old 5mm pads and stack them with the new 10mm pads and see what happens tomorrow (thank goodness the rear springs are a piece of cake to deal with!). I think even if I gain a few mm, I'll be content. I'm also hoping my fronts settle in a bit more than they are now after some break in. Thanks again for all of the advice recently! I'll post a pic of tomorrow after adding the extra pads.