Rajicase's First Turbo Build, Ballin' On A (Nonexistent) Budget

[crazyyardie]

As soon as boost hits, doesn't seem to matter what rpm, it seems to correlate with whenever it hits 27-28psi.

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I gapped new plugs down to 0.018 and its still cutting out. It also doesn't do it at lower boost.

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Yeah that's the one I'm using.

Did the old pump look exactly the same as the one pictured ??


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[tptrsn]

I've seen and heard (on a podcast with the guy who part owns Proline) of people running down to .012". Maybe give that a shot since it takes like 5 minutes on a slant 6.

I am also intrigued by PEI330's comment about running a better power wire to the coils...

[Kevin325i]

Is this the Walbro that you and Zack were chatting about before? Is it a direct drop in for the E36 with the right sock kit? I might be setting mine up for E85 and I'm looking at a new pump.

http://walbrofuelpumps.com/walbro-f9...-fuel-pump-e85

274 is the high pressure one

267 is the lower pressure relief valve

[vollosso]

Did the old pump look exactly the same as the one pictured ??


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Yes they are the same pump with different relief springs.


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[tptrsn]

This one says operating pressures of 35-120psi though... ?

[crazyyardie]

Yes they are the same pump with different relief springs.


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So which do I buy 274 or 267


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[jakermac]

I didn't spend a ton of time comparing the specs, but this is the 274. Looks like the same numbers:

http://walbrofuelpumps.com/walbro-45...utomotive.html

[Kevin325i]

So which do I buy 274 or 267


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http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.a...000274&eq=&Tp=

Go here.

[dburt86]

Bosch 2200s- 56$each

[familyMAN]

Are you logging AFR? You should work on setting up fail safes for afr also.

And one walbro 450 probably isn't enough. Even though the HP pump will support over 90psi, the flow drops off fast. On several cars I've tuned, depending on efficiency of engine, ~600whp is all one will get. Others closer to 700 but not usually. Twin 450's will take care of you for quite awhile.

Or go external with two Bosch 044. (Not quite as much flow as twin 450's but enough for your turbo.)

[PEI330Ci]

Are you logging AFR? You should work on setting up fail safes for afr also.

And one walbro 450 probably isn't enough. Even though the HP pump will support over 90psi, the flow drops off fast. On several cars I've tuned, depending on efficiency of engine, ~600whp is all one will get. Others closer to 700 but not usually. Twin 450's will take care of you for quite awhile.

Or go external with two Bosch 044. (Not quite as much flow as twin 450's but enough for your turbo.)

AFR failsafes are tricky.

For them to work effectively, there are a number things that need to be done:

- The failsafe must know what the AFR target is, and have a margin set for it that is realistically out of normal deviation
- The constant load tune (fuel table) must be accurately tuned.
- Tip/in and wall wetting must be accurately tuned. (Otherwise the failsafe will be triggered when changing throttle position quickly in both directions)
- The failsafe must know when over-run is active, and ignore it.
- The AFR signal will need to have it's update interval tuned for mass exhaust flow....otherwise the signal is going to be non-real time.


On the fuel pump situation, I would be inclined to go with a large single external pump like something from Magnafuel or Weldon.

[rajicase]

Are you logging AFR? You should work on setting up fail safes for afr also.

And one walbro 450 probably isn't enough. Even though the HP pump will support over 90psi, the flow drops off fast. On several cars I've tuned, depending on efficiency of engine, ~600whp is all one will get. Others closer to 700 but not usually. Twin 450's will take care of you for quite awhile.

Or go external with two Bosch 044. (Not quite as much flow as twin 450's but enough for your turbo.)

I am not logging anything with OBD1 lol.
I think I'm gonna pick up a buddies BAP and see if that helps..

Also gonna put back a lighter WG spring and see if I can control boost a bit better. I have a theory that this 366 is going from 10-28psi so fast that these tiny injectors don't have enough time to ramp up. Could explain why my issue is more prevalent in 2nd and 3rd and less so in 4th. If I can slow my spool down a bit that may help. This 366 spools ridiculously fast for a turbo its size. Hitting 24psi before 4k is insane IMO , especially considering when I did that test the wg was cracking at 8psi or so.

[Butters Stoch]

AFR failsafes are tricky.

For them to work effectively, there are a number things that need to be done:

- The failsafe must know what the AFR target is, and have a margin set for it that is realistically out of normal deviation
- The constant load tune (fuel table) must be accurately tuned.
- Tip/in and wall wetting must be accurately tuned. (Otherwise the failsafe will be triggered when changing throttle position quickly in both directions)
- The failsafe must know when over-run is active, and ignore it.
- The AFR signal will need to have it's update interval tuned for mass exhaust flow....otherwise the signal is going to be non-real time.


On the fuel pump situation, I would be inclined to go with a large single external pump like something from Magnafuel or Weldon.

Afr failsafes are pretty simple when using Zeitronix ZT2 data logging.
Mine sets off a nasty loud car alarm. Literally took a factory alarm put it in the cab and triggered by a 30/40 relay. Mine goes off with conditions of ( 75%+ TPS )
(14psi + boost) and leaner than 12.3 AFR. Sets it off. Scares the hell out of you to lift.

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[familyMAN]

AFR failsafes are tricky.

For them to work effectively, there are a number things that need to be done:

- The failsafe must know what the AFR target is, and have a margin set for it that is realistically out of normal deviation
- The constant load tune (fuel table) must be accurately tuned.
- Tip/in and wall wetting must be accurately tuned. (Otherwise the failsafe will be triggered when changing throttle position quickly in both directions)
- The failsafe must know when over-run is active, and ignore it.
- The AFR signal will need to have it's update interval tuned for mass exhaust flow....otherwise the signal is going to be non-real time.


On the fuel pump situation, I would be inclined to go with a large single external pump like something from Magnafuel or Weldon.

Age of Boost and standalones, failsafe widebands, etc. No reason to not have failsafes. My AEM works well. AFR threshold by boost and adjustable time until you hit cut. So a quick lean spike (from poor accel fuel tuning or maybe a misfire) doesn't trigger failsafe.

A big external single is fine for this build, but they really start to get limited at 13-14v above 1000whp.

Can you guys fit two walbro 450's in the tank? I know it's a PITA on my 3000 but is doable. Lots of fuel for cheap. You'll want the second on a hobbs switch or you'll overrun the regulator at idle/cruise. (Better yet, triggered by a standalone with failsafes)

[dburt86]

Heres my thoughts on AFR saftey- dont rely on it. Fix your hardware.

And by fix your hardware, i mean upgrade your fuel system and buy a real ECU. Your risking alot with a stock dme/80lbers/1 fuel pump. That stuff might be ok for a stock motor/500hp/pump gas setup.

[rajicase]

Heres my thoughts on AFR saftey- dont rely on it. Fix your hardware.

And by fix your hardware, i mean upgrade your fuel system and buy a real ECU. Your risking alot with a stock dme/80lbers/1 fuel pump. That stuff might be ok for a stock motor/500hp/pump gas setup.

I start my new job in February so hopefully this year will be full of upgrades and goodies, and less corner cutting

[vollosso]

We had raj dialed in at like 24psi. The tune/fuel isnt really a problem. Raj keeps doing hoonigan shit like adding half a bar without any supporting modifications

The biggest injectors you can run and keep obd1 working "correctly" is ~1150cc. Unfortunately.

I have injectors in the 2k+ range running "correctly" on obd2. I would argue that if your hardware is correct obd2 is better at keeping your motor together vs an average standalone. That also depends on how the ecu is set up...

Now if you have a hardware failure a standalone has features that may keep the motor together, But the funny thing is on most of the standalones I have seen are less equipped than a factory ecu. How many standalones have you seen on this platform with proper knock control??? I would argue thats way more important versus a few failsafes which are likely to be set up incorrectly.

Anyway, raj needs to fix his hardware like his inconsistent boost before he does anything else (he should know this by now )


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[rajicase]

We had raj dialed in at like 24psi. The tune/fuel isnt really a problem. Raj keeps doing hoonigan shit like adding half a bar without any supporting modifications

The biggest injectors you can run and keep obd1 working "correctly" is ~1150cc. Unfortunately.

I have injectors in the 2k+ range running "correctly" on obd2. I would argue that if your hardware is correct obd2 is better at keeping your motor together vs an average standalone. That also depends on how the ecu is set up...

Now if you have a hardware failure a standalone has features that may keep the motor together, But the funny thing is on most of the standalones I have seen are less equipped than a factory ecu. How many standalones have you seen on this platform with proper knock control??? I would argue thats way more important versus a few failsafes which are likely to be set up incorrectly.

Anyway, raj needs to fix his hardware like his inconsistent boost before he does anything else (he should know this by now )


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So a big part of my inconsistent boost at 24psi was running a 10lb wg spring. With the heavier wg spring, my boost is much more consistent and holds to redline better, however it is creeping kinda bad. I don't think there is a way to control creep at this point without cracking the wg really early, like 8-10psi.

You know when we were hitting 24psi Zack, I had a 10lb wg spring in and the boost controller turned 5 "clicks" up. So it was creeping even then , at least 8-10psi. I think I have found the combination that makes this boostlogic creep like a motherfucker. I guess I'm gonna have to embrace the creep and figure out my fuel situation. I'm getting a BAP this weekend, ill through that in and see if it helps. I may also get a fuel pressure gauge and see if my pressure is falling off up top, indicating a pump that's out of fuel, which is quite possible for a single 450 seeing 95+psi in boost. If that's not it, I will put a 12-13lb spring in the wg and this should slow the spool down a tiny bit and maybe allow me to dial in 27-28psi with the MBC, this should hopefully give the injectors time to ramp up (if that's the issue)

[rajicase]

I also don't think my MBC is doing me any favors. I need to get an EBC at some point.

[chikinhed]

Two walbro pumps is easy peezy.

[pbonsalb]

Could you weld a second gate onto your turbine housing?

[someguy2800]

I can't believe your able to make 24 lbs with e85 on 80 lb injectors and a single 450. I was 100% duty cycle with 1000's and 60 lb base pressure at 27 lbs. 12:1 AFR at 27 lbs with pressure starting to drop with twin 255 hp's. You have to be out of both injector and pump.

[vollosso]

I can't believe your able to make 24 lbs with e85 on 80 lb injectors and a single 450. I was 100% duty cycle and 12:1 AFR at 27 lbs with pressure starting to drop with twin 255 hp's. You have to be out of both injector and pump.

What was your base pressure?

Those 255s are relieved at 87psi? I wonder where they crack?

I know you dont get "510lph" in parallel but i wonder how much you realistically get.



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[rajicase]

I'm running a 64psi base pressure and AFRs are 12ish.

[vollosso]

I'm running a 64psi base pressure and AFRs are 12ish.

Also i think he was running an 8k redline or something which really shrinks maximum pulsewidth.


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