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Thread: 4.6is M62B46 into '03 540it. From day one.

  1. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helias86 View Post
    Just read 2 hours worth of this thread, only to get jipped on final dyno numbers! Aaaahhhh! Lol such an inspiring project! Get the dump done already!
    You feel a percentage of my pain. Get'n there.

  2. #477
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    And it begins;











    Last edited by Plattus1000; 02-28-2018 at 03:34 PM.

  3. #478
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    We're done. I just drove home... The kid in me looooovveeess the noise. The adult I'm trying to act like around the authorities and my neighbors is cringing just a bit.

    I can almost play with the sound like it's a musical instrument, that much control is what I'm feeling with throttle and its amazing. It is also going to get me pulled over, again and again. LoL live and learn. I don't have time to swap mufflers out before my trip so I'll be coasting past every cop I see through 3 states.

    Sound clip in the a.m. I'm beat. It was 34°F in his shop. We started at 10 and finished up around 6:30.

    Dave's "Ellensburg exhaust" in... Ellensburg, WA.

    He did everything. I was there because he wanted to make sure everything "looked" good to me before he made it semi permanent. He was helpful, ingenious and friendly (not an uncommon theme amongst the forum members I've met).

    SLIGHT modification to the spare well. lol



    Always quickly finding solutions to m-sport wagons with headers and dual exhaust problems. There was possibly 10' of "trial" pipe (2.5" stainless) leaning against the wall by the time he was done.



    Neat guy with a racing history (local dirt, funny and now drag) If you go, do not judge this book by it's cover-alls. He's amazing and didn't charge the moon. He's wanted to help with this build since I first thought about the swap. He's basically been waiting on me to get my shizz together. He's not alone. This is a good step in the right direction. Now, if I can tune the engine we'll finally have some frigg'n numbers to play with!


    Update-(next evening) Couldn't find the extended bungs for the O2 sensors we wanted to use tonight and after a few local shops that were still open after work had nothing. WagonsHo got dragged into it. He showed us recent pics of his beautiful roots style S/C setup for an m62 - mind blown-

    I also got to see his latest of I think 4 e39 wagons. An auction buy of his that I think he got for less than a grand, heroine needles and all, with under 90k on the clock. In less than a month, gorgeous little sled and it feels fresh on Seattle's testing grounds for tank suspensions, I mean streets. Now I feel even more lethargic. He didn't have any on him which if you've met him, you might just suppose that he had 1 of every part. Because, in many cases, he would. If I knew a fraction of what he knows how to do with a car...

    DUDMD is booked up and time is slipping away. I might only get the car to run on it's current tune. No hooning it up till there's some math that agrees in that computer.

    Tomorrow, bungs (sourced some) possibly a muffler swap (doubtful but I'll try)
    Last edited by Plattus1000; 03-02-2018 at 02:56 AM.

  4. #479
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    Awesome! I dunno how loud your particular car is, but mine is rather quiet even without a muffler. Granted, I'm still running stock headers, cats, and resonator, so I'm sure that quiets everything down a bit.
    1995 525i 5-speed - Thread

  5. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyzabolotny View Post
    Awesome! I dunno how loud your particular car is, but mine is rather quiet even without a muffler. Granted, I'm still running stock headers, cats, and resonator, so I'm sure that quiets everything down a bit.
    I can tell ya, my wife is never getting into my car with it screaming, barking and howling like it does now.

    There's a positive...

    If I could get a bumper sticker that read "sorry for the noise but if I can get used to it, so can you."

    Keep the resonator, kill the cats or go high-flow and get a bigger muffler. That's my suggestion.

  6. #481
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    When are you scheduled to go to Dudmd?

  7. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by M5 Jed View Post
    When are you scheduled to go to Dudmd?
    As soon as "not before I leave". He's slammed.
    Poor planning on my part, not his.
    Last edited by Plattus1000; 03-02-2018 at 01:08 PM.

  8. #483
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    https://youtu.be/evYxlXD11FU


    I'll be heading South Sunday, tomorrow. We got the O2's in new bungs last night. No tune/dyno yet. Might have to wait until I'm down there to play but Jed will be there so he can point me in the right "local" direction.

    WagonsHo stopped by to save my ass. He hole-sawed out some bungs off spare cars (that's a thing in his world)
    Spliced some pigtails together to give me the length needed for the distance needing to be covered. Then Tim my friend and happens to be a metal fabrication guy, installed the bungs with his tig welder. Looks good. I'm owing them both a hearty meal and many libations.


    Safer than it looks.


    All tidied up and cleared the O2.
    Last edited by Plattus1000; 03-06-2018 at 10:18 AM.

  9. #484
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    No tickets thusfar! To be fair, I am driving mostly at night and early morning. I stopped North of Yreka but South of Shasta for my first nap but at 16°F, kinda wanted to feel my fingers and toes when I woke up so I continued to Redding and caught a few hrs.
    Sacramento was first to visit an old detailer friend of mine for dinner and to catch up. Then a really fun drive on a little road from his house to go see Ghostbutts.
    4 lanes, 2 each direction, seperated by a single reflective stripe that starts in farm country then quickly winds you to the base of a hill. I think the corvette had me in the corners but we had a blast both up and down. On snow tires, I didn't feel all that safe on the bendy bits but on the straights... Man 5th gear never sounded so good.

    I took a trip to see Ghostbutts because he bought a spoiler from me. Paid someone to prep it and install it. A short while later, it cracked. I have seen this before and alerted the guys making these to it and how they can prevent it and yet...
    So, I had a few bad ones and 2 good ones with me for demonstration purposes when I get to a face to face with these guys.
    So, I offered to do anything I could for Ghostbutts to help set things right. I gave him a new spoiler for his car (so clean!!) but after we talked for a bit about cars and what it was like to not have rock chips all over the front of your car is like, I headed out only to have Ghostbutts call me to say the one I'd given him had a crack too. Talk about crappy luck. I hadn't brought any "good" ones. Ghostbutts is on my radar as someone I need to make happy, he's allowed me some time and for that and seeing that flawless hood, my god! I'm fortunate.

    Leaving him to head still further West, hwy 15... 200+ miles of rail straight lines of semi's mixed in with R/V's and people trying to set a new land speed record, on 2 lanes! An accident or boredom will kill you. Ugh.

    The grapevine is basically a washboard to drive fast on, it sucks but it prepares you for I-5 through LA which could be a blast in the right car with super squishy suspension but if you roll an m-sport all you do is swear the whole time.

    Just hit San Pedro near Long Beach. I'll be here training some folks on how to detail boats for a few days but then I head South to see more people, some good scenery and fun playing with the new pipes. Love-hate relationship really.

    Averaging 22 mpg doing 10 over the posted and again, snow tires so I shut it down at 110. If it were posted and I swear I saw it once or many times.

    Today had ups and downs many ups, just a few downs. Looking forward to tomorrow.

    Sleepy-time.
    Last edited by Plattus1000; 03-06-2018 at 10:23 AM.

  10. #485
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    So a funny thing happened along i-5 heading South of Jed's hood:

    I see this Chevy Volt catch up to me cruising at around 82 mph (where I average 22 mpg!) and he's grinning with a thumbs-up. I have to admit, as he was in an all electric car, I thought it was sarcasm for a nano-second. But he seemed really honest in his thumbing so I waved and gave him a nod of thanks. Didn't think too much about it till the next stop in Carlsbad. Right about then, Jed texted me this shot one of his friends took. After meeting Ghostbutts, getting help from Wagons-ho and my buddy Tim minutes before leaving, this is turning out to be a great trip. I'm glad I took the time to come down here. Sadly, for the 2nd year in a row, I seem to have brought the Seattle rain with me. Small price to pay to surround yourself with great people. I'm as honored as ever to be part of the touring.

  11. #486
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    To be fair, I just bought a Civic hatchback so that I have time to work on the wagon and the M3 more. I was considering a Nissan Leaf too haha.

  12. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by nauqneyugn View Post
    To be fair, I just bought a Civic hatchback so that I have time to work on the wagon and the M3 more. I was considering a Nissan Leaf too haha.
    I get it. I assume down the line, we'll all have an e-car and will only take these relics (V-8 or modified 6's, super-cool V10's, gas-guzzlers) out on special occasions. We're driving the equivalent to WWII Mustangs or Spitfires. Apex workhorses but even in their day, the M109 jets were hammering the nails into their proverbial coffins. I digress.
    In CA, e-cars are so prevalent that I assumed there was already a divide amongst drivers. Those for gas and those against. I simply didn't expect it. My assumptions were off.
    CVCC hatch (old school) or civic hatch? Both are fun and run forever.

  13. #488
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    2018 Civic hatch... wanted something with a warrantee. Plus the dealership is two blocks from my office in Everett, so I can just drop it off for free oil changes. Can't wait until I get a bit more time so I can install the LSD in the wagon.

  14. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by nauqneyugn View Post
    2018 Civic hatch... wanted something with a warrantee. Plus the dealership is two blocks from my office in Everett, so I can just drop it off for free oil changes. Can't wait until I get a bit more time so I can install the LSD in the wagon.
    When you do, call me up, I want to learn how to do it too.

  15. #490
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    Speaking of cool additions:
    M5Jed has once more dialed it up to "11" Check out this e-brake handle!! ($100) comes in 3 colors, silver, black and blue.



    Pretty easy install, nice feel and unique. I love it!


  16. #491
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    https://youtu.be/AcbG3LzUQus
    Please enjoy this over a good sound system or headphones. It's one of my favorite exhaust clips.

    So...

    Unicorn Headers added to the 4.6:
    I should have run the car on the dyno again before changing my exhaust setup. To get real-world gain numbers. I did hit the dyno after the swap and again after the tune but we lost 20 hp somewhere and I lost funding to explore that this last Summer. I had worked a labor trade with someone to do this current exhaust and honestly, I'm not sure that the little kid in me just wanted free-flow pipes and forgot all about numbers.

    I screwed up my plans to get M5Jed good data.

    In this episode of Summer, I'll be going back to a basically stock setup minus mufflers and scuba tanks but it'll still need to be a dual pipe setup or the info won't relate to what I had before the headers. So this Summer, I'll be going back in time for a dyno number we can use.

    Then, at some point, WagonsHo will have his m122 blower units all sorted and I can plan for the Winter project.
    Last edited by Plattus1000; 04-11-2018 at 10:03 PM.

  17. #492
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    Hey Plattus,

    I live down the i5 in Lake Oswego, so not too far from you. Dima has done all the work on my Dinan7 so far with the tune and customized cooling system. He is far the genius behind tuning my BMW. So I haven't been able go through all the pages on this post, but did you ever consider swapping engine internals from the Alpina M62b48 (e53 Z8) to bump up the horse power and torque from the M62b46 stats? Do you know what engine components are different between the 4.6 liters and the 4.8 liters? The bore is obviously different, but also I assume they don't share the same crankshafts or camshafts. I am curious if you were to tear your engine apart, whether it would be easy as finding the different part numbers from the two engines (using the 4.8L part numbers) and swapping the 4.8L parts in instead?

  18. #493
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    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramacher View Post
    swapping engine internals from the Alpina M62b48 (e53 Z8)
    I'ts stroked not bored actually. And the B48 Alpina motor is not the 4.8 E53 motor. The E53 4.8 is an N62.

    That's important because that makes the true Alpina M62 4.8 super unicornium to find, as are the bespoke parts for it - it'd cost you way way more than dumping a perfectly excellent S62 in instead.

    And while the Wikipedia entry says the M62B48 is dual VANOS I'm pretty sure that's wrong. I've never seen a picture of a Z8 engine bay that has anything that looks like a dual VANOS head. Basically it seems to me to be a B46 engine with the tiniest bit of additional displacement - and 4% extra displacement doesn't do diddleypoo really. Without digging deep into the ETK, my guess is the output difference from the 4.6 to the 4.8 is some minor cam & tune work, plus some selective marketing 'massaging' of the numbers so it didn't look like the Alpina car was too much of a performance downgrade from the (proper) S62 Z8. I seriously doubt swapping crank and cams on a 4.6 to make it a 4.8 is going to be even remotely worth the cost. I suspect the 4.6 already got the lion's share of the cam-gains that were available when they made it out of the 4.4 common engine.

    IMO, using a B48 engine (or making one from a 4.6) would be an exercise in "its slower, and it cost a lot more, but its unique" vs putting energy into a proper S62.
    The only caveat to that would be if you want S62-ish performance, AND factory DME and systems integration, AND you insist on an automatic... That's where the Alpina motors could be argued for (and in fact was Alpina's strategy and target market for the B10... "look BMW is ignoring M5 customers that want an automatic, lets make one...")
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
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  19. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramacher View Post
    Hey Plattus,

    I live down the i5 in Lake Oswego, so not too far from you. Dima has done all the work on my Dinan7 so far with the tune and customized cooling system. He is far the genius behind tuning my BMW. So I haven't been able go through all the pages on this post, but did you ever consider swapping engine internals from the Alpina M62b48 (e53 Z8) to bump up the horse power and torque from the M62b46 stats? Do you know what engine components are different between the 4.6 liters and the 4.8 liters? The bore is obviously different, but also I assume they don't share the same crankshafts or camshafts. I am curious if you were to tear your engine apart, whether it would be easy as finding the different part numbers from the two engines (using the 4.8L part numbers) and swapping the 4.8L parts in instead?
    Dima is definitely good people. I drive through your hood like, once a year, lk Oswego.

    As GG just plopped out, the 4.8 thing seems more money than would be worth the gains. Then there's availability and that shuts you down again.

    The 4.6is, if built right could develop 380-400hp if it were done from the crank bearings on up and a "money is no object" attitude. Honestly though, according to a few here, an older 4.4 taken to a 4.7 with some m60, m62 and s62 parts, added to a supercharger would be the best bang-to-$ ratio for those wanting to stay period correct-ish and bmw-soul intact-ish.

    GG-- dead on; the alpina approach to selling cars by adding fancy pinstriping, slightly boosting performance (except the Z8) and adding an automatic. Not the direction you or I might have chosen but it's a funny observation. I suppose, I was trying to build that with my wagon to some extent
    An m5 clone with Alpina-inspired tuning on a 4.6 build.

    I think if Alpina had access to m5Jed's Unicorn headers, the slushbox issue in the e39 Alpinas wouldn't have been an issue. The two M5 e39 and the Alpina e39, side-by-side were fairly evenly matched till about 100 kph or 62 mph (warm) as I recall of the video. Not bad for an auto with a smaller engine and a spare tire, full-sized mind you.

    https://youtu.be/a8j5wVikBVk



    I enjoy unique and wanted the 4.6 for that and future plans. If pure power was all I cared about, LSx swap would have been a good plan.

    I think every car deserves "more". How much more is the result of a discussion between your budget and your dream. Mine said a 4.6 was good, my arse concurs.

    Next road trip, I'll swing by for a meet-n-greet.
    Last edited by Plattus1000; 04-18-2018 at 10:07 PM.

  20. #495
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    So I have became a HUGE fan of this upgrade and am plotting a similar swap in my e38 sport minus all the extras if I can score this 4.6 engine that needs guides for a decent price. I would just need to keep the 4.4 headers, oil pump and chain, oil pan, bank 2 valve cover, e38 pcv setup and hopefully have Mirza create a 746i tune so it will run right and not throw a check engine light? I also attached some pics of the godly true M62B48 from the Z8 I wish I could afford...

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by purplecty; 10-12-2018 at 11:41 AM.

  21. #496
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    No tune needed, Great pics of the unicorn engine
    E85 fueled, Eaton m112 supercharged 4.5L M62TU, TTV racing flywheel, Spec stage 2+ clutch, 88c thermostat, eibach sway bars, wavetrac 3.15 lsd, m5 steering box, Quantum 340lph fuel pump, Dinan camber plates, some powerflex bushings, Supersprint headers, M5 cats, 2001 gas pedal upgrade and many other things done. all diy by me

  22. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1999 540i m View Post
    No tune needed, Great pics of the unicorn engine
    No tune needed? So can I flash the b46 software or use the b44 software? I know there are some differences between the 2 for example the 2 emission sensors on the top vs 1 on the 740 along with all the stuff Terra mentions as well for 540 4.4 vs x5 4.6. I am already using his moded flash for the 4.6 cluster to be fully functional in my e38...

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by purplecty; 10-12-2018 at 12:48 PM.

  23. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplecty View Post
    No tune needed? So can I flash the b46 software or use the b44 software? I know there are some differences between the 2 for example the 2 emission sensors on the top vs 1 on the 740 along with all the stuff Terra mentions as well for 540 4.4 vs x5 4.6...

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    You don't have to do anything to the computer, I ran a 4.6 for 1000 miles with no check engine light, I removed it for head gasket problems, I highly recommend changing the head gaskets, and opening the cooling passage at the back of the block


    I am currently running a 4.4 in my x5 4.6is, also no check engine light
    E85 fueled, Eaton m112 supercharged 4.5L M62TU, TTV racing flywheel, Spec stage 2+ clutch, 88c thermostat, eibach sway bars, wavetrac 3.15 lsd, m5 steering box, Quantum 340lph fuel pump, Dinan camber plates, some powerflex bushings, Supersprint headers, M5 cats, 2001 gas pedal upgrade and many other things done. all diy by me

  24. #499
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    No map differences for the bigger heads and cams?
    Quote Originally Posted by 1999 540i m View Post
    You don't have to do anything to the computer, I ran a 4.6 for 1000 miles with no check engine light, I removed it for head gasket problems, I highly recommend changing the head gaskets, and opening the cooling passage at the back of the block


    I am currently running a 4.4 in my x5 4.6is, also no check engine light
    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  25. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplecty View Post
    No map differences for the bigger heads and cams?

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    I have no idea, But I know it works
    E85 fueled, Eaton m112 supercharged 4.5L M62TU, TTV racing flywheel, Spec stage 2+ clutch, 88c thermostat, eibach sway bars, wavetrac 3.15 lsd, m5 steering box, Quantum 340lph fuel pump, Dinan camber plates, some powerflex bushings, Supersprint headers, M5 cats, 2001 gas pedal upgrade and many other things done. all diy by me

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