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Thread: 4.6is M62B46 into '03 540it. From day one.

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    You misunderstood me.

    I was looking at 3 files:
    540iA
    X5 4.4
    X5 4.6

    I compared the 540iA and X5 4.4 tunes and noted all the differences -- found that the catalytic converter parameters, cruise control parameters, tank leakage pump parameters, knock parameters, and AFR parameters were different. What I don't know is *why* the 540iA and X5 4.4 have slightly different knock and AFR parameters.

    I then compared the 4.6 software to the 4.4 software at the addresses identified in the first comparison. Catalytic converter, cruise, and tank leakage stuff was bit for bit identical to the 4.4, so it is safe to copy the 540iA parameters over to those. The knock and AFR parameters are different, as expected. So we'll have to use the 4.6 values there even though the 540i and X5 4.4 also have unique values. Probably not a big deal, and a dyno tune can probably get that stuff near perfect.



    Well there isn't an X5 4.4 manual. So what I'd have to do is compare the 540iA vs 540i6, and hope that none of the differences are for engine running characteristics.


    Plattus: Another thought I had was that you might want to buy a 4.6is torque converter (which is also the same torque converter as the Alpina Z8) - probably would shift better
    This is the stuff I am worried about getting aligned propery...

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  2. #502
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    Dudmd puts them all in the same listing, https://www.dudmd.net/products/m62tu...de-e39-e38-e53 maybe he uses different files for each one, I'm interested in the differences too, my x5 power delivery feels very different from my 540, I always thought throttle mapping was different, I don't know
    E85 fueled, Eaton m112 supercharged 4.5L M62TU, TTV racing flywheel, Spec stage 2+ clutch, 88c thermostat, eibach sway bars, wavetrac 3.15 lsd, m5 steering box, Quantum 340lph fuel pump, Dinan camber plates, some powerflex bushings, Supersprint headers, M5 cats, 2001 gas pedal upgrade and many other things done. all diy by me

  3. #503
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    It isn't bad to just run your stock 4.4 dme and tune it afterwards, no codes except perhaps O2 sensors, they're located in different relative positions. What Terraphantm and DUDMD did worked great, I was causing problems by messing with my exhaust and running super rich. All sorted mostly. Positioning the 02 sensors right is critical I think for the Pre-cats at least.

    Hi, the rest of you. Been some time, I apologize.
    Sometimes the path seems clear and then yuck;

    I'm still awaiting the copies of the spoilers from China and I've yet to fix ghostbutt's spoiler for his car (he's a new papa btw'z. Much happy congrats!) I messed up my plans to get bone stock vs only-unicorn-added to a stock exhaust Dyno #'s by messing with it before solving my (at the time unknown) engine power loss. Swapped in new injectors and plugs and miracles... Light issues, radio, nav, cluster... (water down the roof antenna fried my nav which does all sorts of fun things.

    Dimitry of DMI Auto Care off 15th in Ballard, WA... Figured this out and will try to help me diagnose my steptronic not being functional in manual mode.
    Point is, gremlins had a meeting and decided to line up. I'm still here, haven't given up even if you have. (look'n @ you GG)
    I'm still in the fight(s).

    I owe M5Jed and Ghostbutts first efforts. After that, pic uploads and re-posts and perhaps some progress.

    Happy T-day!
    Last edited by Plattus1000; 11-21-2018 at 10:16 PM.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plattus1000 View Post
    It isn't bad to just run your stock 4.4 dme and tune it afterwards, no codes except perhaps O2 sensors, they're located in different relative positions. What Terraphantm and DUDMD did worked great, I was causing problems by messing with my exhaust and running super rich. All sorted mostly. Positioning the 02 sensors right is critical I think for the Pre-cats at least.
    Hi,

    What do you mean by placing pre O2 sensors in a different position and this would be critical?

    I have 4-1 headers and pre O2 sensors are farther from the engine than the original m62tu exhaust manifold. No cats, other O2 sensors removed and no error code.
    I have had a problem that the engine does not go into a closed loop. O2 sensor are new, no fault codes, fuses is ok.

  5. #505
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    The 4.6 has them very close to the collector end of the stock manifolds. On the 4.4 vs 4.6 tune, the lambda and knock values are different and placing the 02 sensors too far back, using the stock 4.4 location might cause issues.

    This, I'm told and have adhered to but you might ask DUDMD or Terraphantm. They'd know a lot more about it than I do.

  6. #506
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    Really cool to see someone else's success. I put a m62tub46 into an e38, except I had the ability to rebuild the engine from the crank up, now has 12.2:1 compression, headers, and trumpet m60 mainfold, lights the tires up joyfuly as long as I'm using 93 Oct or higher....

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaspr6 View Post
    Really cool to see someone else's success. I put a m62tub46 into an e38, except I had the ability to rebuild the engine from the crank up, now has 12.2:1 compression, headers, and trumpet m60 mainfold, lights the tires up joyfuly as long as I'm using 93 Oct or higher....
    How did you raise the compression?
    E85 fueled, Eaton m112 supercharged 4.5L M62TU, TTV racing flywheel, Spec stage 2+ clutch, 88c thermostat, eibach sway bars, wavetrac 3.15 lsd, m5 steering box, Quantum 340lph fuel pump, Dinan camber plates, some powerflex bushings, Supersprint headers, M5 cats, 2001 gas pedal upgrade and many other things done. all diy by me

  8. #508
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    IMG_20180716_033012_848.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by 1999 540i m View Post
    How did you raise the compression?
    IMG_20180801_192519_459.jpg
    Was able to source a tub44 cylinder head, this head has a 5 cc smaller combustion chamber than the head on the TUb46, virtually the same except for combustion chamber size, the b46 also has higher quality valves and springs installed in it to handle its 10.5mm lift cam. After I transferred the valves, springs and cam over. I had it decked half a mil (.5mm). Did some calculations and it came out to a 12 to 1. Also check clearance for valves when in 20* advanve. And they cleared by (.4 mm) I would post some pics but I don't see any option maybe because I'm new, there are plenty in my profile however of its build
    Last edited by Jaspr6; 02-26-2019 at 08:21 PM.

  9. #509
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    Got any numbers on it? Curious how far into the 300’s you are...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #510
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    IMG_20180821_013516-1.jpgIMG_20180919_203130_412-1.jpgIMG_20190108_224913-1.jpgnot sure, have not had time for a dyno, it uses the x5 4.6is dme and if i can get my hands on some vp 110 or similar it should be around 360 hp and torque at s62 levels or just shy,
    Last edited by Jaspr6; 02-26-2019 at 08:18 PM.

  11. #511
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    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    Cool stuff man! A M62TUB44/6 hybrid. Nice. Gotta find me some 4.6 cams!
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
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  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Gotta find me some 4.6 cams!
    I can help you with that, PM me.

  13. #513
    JimLev's Avatar
    JimLev is offline Artifically Aspirated Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Cool stuff man! A M62TUB44/6 hybrid. Nice. Gotta find me some 4.6 cams!
    Should have thought about that before I moved, they were in my garage.

  14. #514
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    If y'all really want to get fancy with that "hybrid "part this part will blow your mind, m62b44+m60b40+m62b46.
    Screenshot_20190226-141854~2.jpg

    Anyone see what I did there?
    it needed a longer chain though and it was not bolted in yet when the picture was taken but will probably never ever need guides again especially with the cooler running temps.Don't pay attention to that s85 just sitting around in the background by the way...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Jaspr6; 03-01-2019 at 12:23 AM.

  15. #515
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    I do in fact see what you did there, as they say on immberwebz.

    There've been 1-2 very custom M62TU/S62 timing chain hybrids but obv this is different from that.

    Hmmm. Love the concept and effort. Not sure I like the guide angles coming into and out of the idler, my guess is those corners on the guides are gonna wear out real quicklike. The guides either needed shortening so the path to the idler is straight, or, you needed a bigger idler cog. (Obv seems like that was biggest cog that was gonna fit so I'm assume that's why you did it)
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    I do in fact see what you did there, as they say on immberwebz.

    There've been 1-2 very custom M62TU/S62 timing chain hybrids but obv this is different from that.

    Hmmm. Love the concept and effort. Not sure I like the guide angles coming into and out of the idler, my guess is those corners on the guides are gonna wear out real quicklike. The guides either needed shortening so the path to the idler is straight, or, you needed a bigger idler cog. (Obv seems like that was biggest cog that was gonna fit so I'm assume that's why you did it)
    You're absolutely right that angle would have been terrible for the guides. I had a bigger chain made so now the angle is acceptable just like in the M60

  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plattus1000 View Post
    The 4.6 has them very close to the collector end of the stock manifolds. On the 4.4 vs 4.6 tune, the lambda and knock values are different and placing the 02 sensors too far back, using the stock 4.4 location might cause issues.

    This, I'm told and have adhered to but you might ask DUDMD or Terraphantm. They'd know a lot more about it than I do.
    So with Dima's custom tune and Jed's headers, how much HP and TQ is your engine running now?

    Rhein

  18. #518
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    Good question. I'm not (gg don't you f-n do it) on the dead list yet. It's my DD and it needs work. I've got some things to amend before hitting the dyno again.

    Nothing crazy, about 340 hp but so much better to drive and have fun with, even running at 75% (estimated)

    I'm in the process of funding a brick-n-mortar garage so I can tear her down and build her back up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ramacher View Post
    So with Dima's custom tune and Jed's headers, how much HP and TQ is your engine running now?

    Rhein
    The exact numbers are somewhere in this thread. Nothing crazy but great for a beginning platform for a supercharger being assembled now.

  19. #519
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    How is your trans holding up with your 4.6 btw,

  20. #520
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaspr6 View Post
    How is your trans holding up with your 4.6 btw,
    Honestly, I'm not gentle with my car. I fight my way through Seattle and if you knew what my Tranny has dealt with since this swap and before... It's doing fine. I run in manual-auto-shift mode 90% of the time, I try not to spin it too fast but so far, so good. (knock on plastic connectors. WAIT, NO not them, the wood trim. WAIT, perhaps just a nod to the car) still trying to get me there as much as I hinder her with my deferred maintenance.
    Last edited by Plattus1000; 03-08-2019 at 04:09 PM.

  21. #521
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    IMG_20190306_010727.jpgIMG_20190306_010731.jpgIMG_20190307_182358.jpglegitimately blew mine up last week... Guess it has s62 torque after all....

  22. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaspr6 View Post
    IMG_20190306_010727.jpgIMG_20190306_010731.jpgIMG_20190307_182358.jpglegitimately blew mine up last week... Guess it has s62 torque after all....
    Can a 4.6is TC be paired with a sport trans?

  23. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplecty View Post
    Can a 4.6is TC be paired with a sport trans?
    I believe that question was raised when the work was being done. I even thought the 4.6is auto could swap too but was suggested to, that it wasn't going to fit.

    I don't think it'll fit the bell, too big.
    Time for a 6-speed!

    I've been waiting for this to happen to mine.
    Like pulling baby teeth, I figured by the time I got ready, it would blow.

    You lucky bastard!!

    (seriously, sorry but... Opportunity knocking.
    Last edited by Plattus1000; 03-10-2019 at 02:47 PM.

  24. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plattus1000 View Post
    I don't think it'll fit the bell, too big.
    Time for a 6-speed! I've been waiting for this to happen to mine.
    Like pulling baby teeth, I figured by the time I got ready, it would blow.

    You lucky bastard!!

    (seriously, sorry but... Opportunity knocking.
    Isn't the x5 4.6is still a 5hp24?

  25. #525
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    Yes it is but just like the 5hp24 running in cadillacs and small suv's around the world, they're slightly different.

    The part # for the transmission on the e39 540i-24001423305
    The part # for the transmission on the e53 4.6is-24007512588

    Torque converters are different sizes too, larger on the 4.6. I don't think you could fit a 4.6 TC in an e39 trans-bell. I don't think it'll fit.

    The tranny on the 4.6 would be open on the bottom without the front transfer case??
    Last edited by Plattus1000; 03-10-2019 at 03:11 PM.

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