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Thread: AC compressor for 91 E31 850i

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2015
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    New Jersey
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    1991 BMW 850i

    AC compressor for 91 E31 850i

    Hey guys a couple months ago my AC compressor stopped working. Since I am not going to be driving the car much during the winter I figure I'll have plenty of time to tackle this.

    It kept blowing fuse 29 and caused a few other things to fail. Like my windows and ASC stopped working because of it. I ended up disabling the compressor and replacing the fuse to get window switches and ASC to work again. Now I can go ahead and replace this thing. The thing is that I believe it is the original R12 unit. Is there a way to verify that. Also if it is still R12 I think I would like to keep it that way. Maybe I can get a machinist to check the bearings and rebuild if necessary.

    The BMW dealer near is certified for R12 as I had it in for service on the transmission and he told they could, but that they would might have to try different compressors out, since BMW no longer makes the part.

    Or do you think that the retrofit would work just as well? I want to know what the rest of you pre-94 guys have done, as I believe BMW switched in 94 to R134a.

    Also what part numbers would I be looking for as I think I will need to get a third party manufactured unit. I saw DENSO makes some, but I'm not sure which ones would fit. On RealOEM it looks like 64528350059 is the number for the R12 unit and 64528390964 was the R134a unit for the retrofit. Looks if I go the retrofit route that I can still get the kit.

    Any advice would be great.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Japan
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    11/88 E32 750iL+98 E36M3
    I have converted my 88 E32 750iL (which has the same compressor as the 850) from R12 to R134a in 2006 with a cheap R134a conversion kit, which comes with R134a with the proper oil, the new connectors and the new sticker. Works fine since then. Basically I have done it the same way as shown here on the website of Timm http://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/AC/Index.htm
    In addition I have replaced the dryer and also vacuumed the complete system before I filled the R134a. Did not change any gasket and they do not leak at all.
    R12 is very expensive and sooner or later you will not be able to get it anymore. Here where I live R12 is not allowed anymore.

    To verify if your car still has R12 is pretty easy, just look at the connectors
    Here the old R12 are also shown http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/airc...con_R134a.html

    You need a 10PA17C compressor. Compressor for the E32 750 and E31 850 are identical, but the pulleys are different. M70 compressors have a lock sensor, that is the difference to the other models.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    '92 850i '94 850ci
    The compressor with the sensor is NLA. I believe if you replace with an aftermarket or DENSO 10PA compressor they will not have the sensor and you'll also have to mod your lock sensor or change it out to a later version.

    The lock sensor compares the compressor rpm with the engine and disengages the compressor if there are significant difference so that a seized compressor won't take out the engine by stopping the water pump, which is on the same belt.

    I believe the later M70 dispensed with this little piece of over-engineering.
    Last edited by affa; 11-20-2015 at 11:26 PM.

  4. #4
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    11/88 E32 750iL+98 E36M3
    Not sure if they are no longer available with the sensor, but because of the price also many E32 750 drivers use as replacement just the normal compressor and mod the wiring for the lock sensor. There is some write up in the E32 forum by E32Fan, the resident electronic expert there.
    We discussed that also here on the E32 forum in 2011 http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1221130/
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  5. #5
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    '92 850i '94 850ci
    You may be right I might have remembered incorrectly. May be I saw the price (!) and my brain filed it under NLA.

    BTW I just changed the compressor on my merc, it's also a 10PA17 and it has a rpm sensor in the back where the shaft would be. Aftermarket OEM replacement from denso is widely available so I wonder if that would work for the E31/2. Any one know how many pulse per rev for the OE compressor? No I don't have my old compressor anymore...
    Last edited by affa; 11-21-2015 at 01:40 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Hesperia, CA
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    30
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    91 850i 165,000mi
    Replaced the old R12 compressor on my '91 850 with a new Denso 471-1263 and also needed:

    1. Replacement relay in place of lock sensor (from BMW)

    2. New Mounting bracket 64551710471 - the old one is the wrong diameter

    3. New lower water hose 11531741411 and new longer drive belt 11281733708.

  7. #7
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    May 2015
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    New Jersey
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    1991 BMW 850i
    Thanks guys for the input, this is the kind of direction I needed. I guess I'll go for the conversion, then at least I can service it myself if I want. I'll take a look at the parts you've suggested. You say BMW has a Replacement relay for the lock sensor. I'll have to ask the dealer about that. Hopefully I can started on this in the next couple weeks.

  8. #8
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    1991 BMW 850i
    Hey guys finally getting around to this. We got the denso compressor installed but having trouble with the lock sensor. I read the post on how to modify the lock sensor relay but I'm not sure where to find it. And is there a newer module that I could use in its place. I don't mind trying the mod myself, but was wondering if there was another option.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Iceland
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    BMW 850
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfebrian2120 View Post
    Hey guys finally getting around to this. We got the denso compressor installed but having trouble with the lock sensor. I read the post on how to modify the lock sensor relay but I'm not sure where to find it. And is there a newer module that I could use in its place. I don't mind trying the mod myself, but was wondering if there was another option.
    What does that mod do? What problems are you having with your compressor ?

    I am having problems with my compressor after swapping in the s70
    The problem is that the compressor and fan never go off
    I was wondering i.e. If the reason would me the lack of that locking lock sensor
    Last edited by Fatandre; 06-23-2016 at 03:22 AM.

  10. #10
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    1991 BMW 850i
    So far in my search I have found a few sites that info regarding the lock sensor module.

    http://www.ow.no/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=59&Itemi d=13 -- explains a couple different module used on the e32 750

    http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1221130/ -- thanks to shogun for sharing this one. explains the modification to the lock sensor unit.

    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2296297-BMW-TSB-641192-(3596)-AC-CONTROL-UNIT-LOCK-SENSOR-61358360039-issure
    This points out the part # for the lock sensor module.

    Looking at Realoem.com I see that there are two parts # for this module;
    61351392410 and 61358360039. So far I suspect that the 410 is what is currently in my car and does do the lock sensor measurements. I believe the latter part is the module used on the later models which didn't have the lock sensor. Realoem says they are exchangeable.
    So were gonna see whats in there now. The part is a bit pricey. ECS shows it for $300.

    UPDATE:

    We pulled out the old module and it was in fact the one ending in 410. So I decided to go with the newer module. It is a bit expensive, but the way I look at it if there is an existing part for the car that does what I need, I'll give that a try before rigging something. I had my mechanic give me all the old parts. So I got the older compressor and module. One of these days I'm gonna see if my brother whos a machinist could possibly take that pulley with the sensor off and put it on a denso.
    Last edited by wolfebrian2120; 06-24-2016 at 07:39 PM. Reason: UPDATE

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    '91 E31 850i,'05 E53 4.4
    I just had my '91 M70's A/C system evacuated at a shop. I can not find a sticker showing the oz or gm's needed to refill the system. Could someone mention it please?
    I swear, my cars are like a girlfriend.
    Sometimes its a rough ride, sometimes its smooth motorin'.
    Sometimes she doesnt like how i treat her and sometimes i dont like how she behaves.
    BUT at the end of the day, she loves it when I am inside her.

  12. #12
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  13. #13
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    '91 E31 850i,'05 E53 4.4
    sensational/ thank you
    I swear, my cars are like a girlfriend.
    Sometimes its a rough ride, sometimes its smooth motorin'.
    Sometimes she doesnt like how i treat her and sometimes i dont like how she behaves.
    BUT at the end of the day, she loves it when I am inside her.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    Calgary, AB, Canada
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    1990 BMW 850i E31
    Anybody know how to alter the old lockout module as per these instructions? http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1221130/

    - - - Updated - - -

    Anybody know how to alter the old lockout module as per these instructions? http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1221130/

    Where is X80 Pin 3, and X77 pin 1? Inside the module? Outside in the wiring harness? The directions are too vague in that write-up.

  15. #15
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    1998 BMW 740i
    Can someone chime in on this? I too am in the same boat as the above post. The new module P/N ...39 appears to be NLA.
    Last edited by rotomoto712; 12-08-2016 at 04:21 PM.

  16. #16
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    1991 BMW 850i
    hmm.. I got mine from BMW about 6 months ago. Have you tried FCPEuro or ECSTuning. You might have to try different suppliers.

    If not, you can modify the old module to bypass the lock sensor.

    shogun and wuffer have helped a couple others with the modification.
    Last edited by wolfebrian2120; 12-08-2016 at 05:12 PM.

  17. #17
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    1998 BMW 740i
    Ecs lists the part as NLA, FCP shows it it as back order no ETA. I guess I'll have to contact Wuffer or Shogun for more details as you suggested. Thanks!

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    91 850 Panzer
    Wuffer has one 61 35 8 360 039 Lock sensor available...
    wuffer at shaw dot ca
    Or... here: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...gnal-Schematic
    Last edited by Wuffer; 12-08-2016 at 06:08 PM.
    91 850 (Panzer), 2012 Mini Cooper Countryman (WifeMobile) www.wuffer.ca


  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2019
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    Grovetown, GA
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    1991 850i 6-speed
    Here's a picture of the old and new brackets side by side. The new bracket bolts up to the new R134a compressor nicely
    IMG_3626.jpg

    For those that may have the earlier lock sensor, as reported on a couple of other threads, modification of the sensor is possible.
    https://www.pusches.de/index.php/tei...duct/view/1/91 is one option.

  20. #20
    Join Date
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    Had a 1991 BMW 850
    My AC Compressor took a dump. Looking thru this thread, I am going to wait and see if my new just ordered compressor will line with current bracket or order the $150 new bracket if needed, no idea if they one I have is an R12 unit or not. I will post a picture when I get it out

    I was wondering why Dusty21 needed?

    3. New lower water hose 11531741411 and new longer drive belt 11281733708.

    I will compare pulley diameters when I get then new compressor or is it the new bracket moves the compressor to much?

  21. #21
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    1991 850i 6-speed
    Quote Originally Posted by rjjablo View Post
    My AC Compressor took a dump. Looking thru this thread, I am going to wait and see if my new just ordered compressor will line with current bracket or order the $150 new bracket if needed, no idea if they one I have is an R12 unit or not. I will post a picture when I get it out

    I was wondering why Dusty21 needed?

    3. New lower water hose 11531741411 and new longer drive belt 11281733708.

    I will compare pulley diameters when I get then new compressor or is it the new bracket moves the compressor to much?
    There's a used 64551710471 bracket on eBay for a third of the cost of new, https://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-AC-COMP...0/283932406594

    Pulley diameter determines the belt length.

  22. #22
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    Had a 1991 BMW 850

    Bracket

    Here is My Bracket PN 1 713 992.9 Does not match Real OEM and Compressor that failed I assume its an R12 Compressor based on the grime. Any Ideas on whether my current bracket will fit my 10PA17C compressor?
    AC Compressor II.jpgAC Compressor IV.jpg

  23. #23
    Join Date
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    1991 850i 6-speed
    I don’t know if the Denso that you purchased is the same as mine, what I can show is the cast numbers on both my old and new brackets. The old bracket matches the one from your car, and the new one matches the one on the auction I linked.

    Old bracket for old compressor:


    New bracket for Denso replacement:



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    Texas
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    1975 Bmw 2002
    I was searching on rock auto for the DENSO 4711263 compressor and its out of stock. After doing a little looking I realized the GPD, UAC and 4 Seasons compressor all have the same part number listed for both the 840ci and the 850i. The denso compressor part numbers however are different for the 850i and 840ci. Denso 4711263 is listed for the 850i and 4711115 is listed for the 840ci. The 4711115 looks the same as the original compressor that came with the car and has a Clutch diameter of 110mm. The 4711263 has a clutch diameter of 120mm which is why you need a new belt and bracket as discussed above.

    Im wondering if anyone knows if I could get the 4711115 for my 1991 850i. The only difference im seeing between the original compressor and the denso are the denso has a plug bracket which faces the plug upward instead of to the side. Also the 4711115 only has one pulley like the original while the 4711263 has a dual pulley. If anyone is running this compressor and could let me know that would be great.

  25. #25
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    I have the dual pulley on my ac compressor. I have since acquired the additional alternator to run off it.

    The accessory belt you need for the the compressor with the larger diameter dual pulley is the longer one listed on realoem. Checking it now, I don’t recall if I’m using the 1180 or the 1190mm belt, but one of those will work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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