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Thread: Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??

  1. #201
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    Going into the US S52 Motor, American Endurance Racing 2017, April. watch out for the car with the growl.

    Also working with a client to allow mounting of prochargers using my bracket designs.
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



  2. #202
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    Sent another base setup out, gone to a kiwi in auckland.

    2017-01-15-1323.jpg

    Will be sending out another setup to US some time soon,

    Also working on a Sub base kit for a Dutch Client in Netherlands.

    Cant wait till I sort out the eaton brackets going, working with JCE928 from now on to get that started and going for a launch this year.
    Last edited by MisterM52; 01-17-2017 at 08:27 PM.
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterM52 View Post
    Sent another base setup out, gone to a kiwi in auckland.

    2017-01-15-1323.jpg

    Will be sending out another setup to US some time soon,

    Also working on a Sub base kit for a Dutch Client in Netherlands.

    Cant wait till I sort out the eaton brackets going, working with JCE928 from now on to get that started and going for a launch this year.
    I can't wait to what you have in store in one or two years time!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #204
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    Eaton M90 acquired.

    ...
    Eat, drink, and be merry - for tomorrow we drive.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by JEC928 View Post
    Eaton M90 acquired.

    ...
    Great, get it installed and hop on a dynojet. So we can finally see what these put out.
    See where it lies.

    Here is a FBO M3 vs S/Ced centrifugal , and medium sized 62mm turbo.
    Lets add a M90 roots to the list

    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  6. #206
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    Plan is:
    A) Test fitting and mock up, possible design changes as we go.
    B) Install with remote OBD1 chiptune from Ssquid.
    C) Dyno run and post.
    D) Send dyno data to Ssquid for tune revision.
    E) Re-dyno and post.

    Only obstacles are time and money. Am fitting OBD2 exhaust at the moment, then really should do RTABs and LSD dif before adding moar horsetorques.

  7. #207
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    Its On.
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



  8. #208
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    Any chance you'd be able to replicate this budget s/c kit for an m62tu out of an 2000 e39 540I? Maybe using a vortech v3 si like the vf kit

  9. #209
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    Probably. Put your 540i and a Vortech Si trim on a boat to New Zealand.

    What you really want is someone with a proper kit to have extra brackets machined cheap.
    Last edited by pbonsalb; 01-27-2017 at 08:11 AM.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveleber View Post
    Any chance you'd be able to replicate this budget s/c kit for an m62tu out of an 2000 e39 540I? Maybe using a vortech v3 si like the vf kit
    The #1 expense of any Vortech build is the Vortech centrifugal blower itself. The core "budget" item of this thread is dirt cheap roots blowers from OEM cars.
    Open your hood and you'll be hard pressed to find a mounting spot for a roots blower without $$$ fabbing a bespoke intake manifold to mount it in the v of the V8.

  11. #211
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    Here's another base setup going to US. This is for a E46 M3.

    It will be one of the last HMW M5XSC14 full base kit setups I send out.

    2017-01-28-1344.jpg

    Somebody in South Africa is also working on a setup as well as somebody in Japan.




    I am still sending out a blower to somebody in Netherlands. After which I will be marking this project as EOL as I have run out of SC14's from most NZ suppliers. Although they pop up every once a while so you never know That said I have contacts in Asia who may be able to help in the future or the blowers can always be had from ebay. I will still however be offering my HMW M5XSC14 Brackets as a set with Bolts and all as well as my whiteprints which would always be up for grabs, the user will have to source out their own SC14 or SC12 blower.

    - Hyde



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daveleber View Post
    Any chance you'd be able to replicate this budget s/c kit for an m62tu out of an 2000 e39 540I? Maybe using a vortech v3 si like the vf kit
    I could but as pbonsalb and JCE has stated, not feasible. i think a vortech setup is already there for those motors. When I do something I want to built it so that everybody and anybody a decade late can still use my work and bolt things on, and last thing I want is copying somebody else's work. Now I'd say if you already got a blower then all you need are some brackets fabbed up to spec, the piping is piece of cake on that motor with a vortech, just head over to the 5 series section, there are plenty of nice guys one of whom might just draw you out their bracket for a box of beers. 540i's are great cars, I had a e34 with the m60b40 motor that I sold few years ago. hope things go your way for the best.
    Last edited by MisterM52; 01-27-2017 at 11:48 PM.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by JEC928 View Post
    The #1 expense of any Vortech build is the Vortech centrifugal blower itself. The core "budget" item of this thread is dirt cheap roots blowers from OEM cars.
    Open your hood and you'll be hard pressed to find a mounting spot for a roots blower without $$$ fabbing a bespoke intake manifold to mount it in the v of the V8.



    I wish I found this thread long time ago. I am a huge fan of budget junkyard builds.

    I think you would find the SC14 to be an excellent power subtractor for the big V8. If you run the numbers on a flow/hp calculator will show you would have to turn it at a crazy rpm to flow enough.

    Also, on the subject of the SC14, I have some experience.

    The MR2 and AE86 crowd has about a 15 year head start on using these to swap on more flow. In the US these only came on the Previa van for few years to get 160hp out a 2.2L 4 banger. The result of this is that there weren't a ton to start with and maintained low mileage examples as about as common illegal immigrant Trump supporters. A full rebuild kit also next to unobtainium. Any kits you see on ebay probably isn't the full deal and only covers seals and maybe gears.

    Another important item about these and their Ogura TX15 decendents is the rpm limit is 10,000. Running them close to that makes a lot of heat. I ran through two little brother SC12's by overdriving them and peeling the rotor teflon off. I have a flow map hiding on an old drive somewhere, but I recall high flow and high rpm at moderate to high boost levels dipped efficiency to the 50-60% range.

    The SC14 maybe be a viable option in New Zealand, but in the US the majority you see for sale have changed hands a few times and have fuzzy history or are obviously high mileage. I believe factory asked for the charger oil to be changed every 30k with special Japanese stuff probably sourced from Humpback whales.

    In my opinion, in the US at least, something like a M90 would be a better option with many more donor Buicks hanging around and these units were designed to turn faster as factory output was 245 for the 3.8 Buick V8.

    I still think this thread is great since a big part of the supercharging challenge is the engine management part and many of the tricks applied here should work if another blower type is used.

    - - - Updated - - -

    One more thing. Don't even think about using an SC12. It maxed out on 1.6L 4 cylinder at around 180 whp... that is a highly overdriven speeds.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here's the current Ogura page...

    http://www.oguraclutch.co.jp/e/produ...rger/type.html

  13. #213
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    Good info, sorry dog.

    I will add this: the long-snout GM V6 spec Eaton M90 that I posted above won't fit into a E36 engine bay without having that snout cut down by a skilled and well-equipped machine shop.

  14. #214
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    If the GM eaton wont work, did a a 90s Ford TBird use one? If so would it fit better? Any other applications people can think of?

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorry dog View Post

    I wish I found this thread long time ago. I am a huge fan of budget junkyard builds.

    I think you would find the SC14 to be an excellent power subtractor for the big V8. If you run the numbers on a flow/hp calculator will show you would have to turn it at a crazy rpm to flow enough.

    Also, on the subject of the SC14, I have some experience.

    The MR2 and AE86 crowd has about a 15 year head start on using these to swap on more flow. In the US these only came on the Previa van for few years to get 160hp out a 2.2L 4 banger. The result of this is that there weren't a ton to start with and maintained low mileage examples as about as common illegal immigrant Trump supporters. A full rebuild kit also next to unobtainium. Any kits you see on ebay probably isn't the full deal and only covers seals and maybe gears.

    Another important item about these and their Ogura TX15 decendents is the rpm limit is 10,000. Running them close to that makes a lot of heat. I ran through two little brother SC12's by overdriving them and peeling the rotor teflon off. I have a flow map hiding on an old drive somewhere, but I recall high flow and high rpm at moderate to high boost levels dipped efficiency to the 50-60% range.

    The SC14 maybe be a viable option in New Zealand, but in the US the majority you see for sale have changed hands a few times and have fuzzy history or are obviously high mileage. I believe factory asked for the charger oil to be changed every 30k with special Japanese stuff probably sourced from Humpback whales.

    In my opinion, in the US at least, something like a M90 would be a better option with many more donor Buicks hanging around and these units were designed to turn faster as factory output was 245 for the 3.8 Buick V8.

    I still think this thread is great since a big part of the supercharging challenge is the engine management part and many of the tricks applied here should work if another blower type is used.

    - - - Updated - - -

    One more thing. Don't even think about using an SC12. It maxed out on 1.6L 4 cylinder at around 180 whp... that is a highly overdriven speeds.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here's the current Ogura page...

    http://www.oguraclutch.co.jp/e/produ...rger/type.html
    Pretty much what I've been saying, the sc14 won't do much but blow hot air on a 2.8-3.2L BMW. The problem is some people think PSI means something and feel since their boost gauge goes to 10 then they must be making 400hp like a Garrett mid frame turbo.
    When in reality the hot air is just creating high IAT's, cars pulling timing, and it ain't making chit.

    But, they are boosted I guess.

    I'm interested to see a M112/120. But, that would be some work.
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  16. #216
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    @pbonslab - Well the M112 or M122 or even the 90's Tbird One is the one I have been wanting to do really! But nobody seems to be able to get them anymore.

    @sorry dog / butters- Great point but also the real life applications we have found M62 and intercooled it makes 8PSI. Somebody in this forum (wont name them) has already seen the pictures, its so simple. but not realistic. So instead we want a bigger blower one thats available.

    Spyder no longer posts in this forum and went to the other forum, found him but unsure if hes keen to even send me the blower hes got. So I am pushing all this $hit by my self up the mountain and I will succeed.

    Its really the snout thats getting in the way, else its all figured out, Just a 2x1 piece bracket really. a flat surface that will relocate your alternator and give you all the room under the manifold to mount the blower into, any blower really as long as it dont have a giant snout.

    Tell you all what, I will make the brackets, and leave it to JCE and whom ever is interested to see what they can mount.


    @JCE - You think the M112 will be a better match due to not having the crazy large snout??
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



  17. #217
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    If this could be done really cheap for a system that adds 75 rwhp, there is a market. Target a price of $2500 with tune. NA mods with tune will get you maybe 60 rwhp for $4000 USA.

    The other option is to compete with cheap turbo kits. For this you want an intercooled system making 400 rwhp and it could cost $4k or even a little more with tune.

    Don't worry about competing with 600 rwhp turbos -- you can't.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    If this could be done really cheap for a system that adds 75 rwhp, there is a market. Target a price of $2500 with tune. NA mods with tune will get you maybe 60 rwhp for $4000 USA.

    The other option is to compete with cheap turbo kits. For this you want an intercooled system making 400 rwhp and it could cost $4k or even a little more with tune.

    Don't worry about competing with 600 rwhp turbos -- you can't.
    The question is , can it compete with dyno proven kits that seem to be always on the market for $2500.
    Like this http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...nger-Available

    Or

    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...nger-Available

    Maybe it can, but w/o data, a given "PSI" means about nothing. A simple 1/4 mile trap speed of 110+ or a simple dyno showing decent gains would be the best thing for this kit.
    If it were to hit 305whp with TS TQ curve, and not fall flat on its face above 5,000rpm. This kit would be worth every penny.
    Last edited by Butters Stoch; 01-28-2017 at 10:17 PM.
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  19. #219
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    To be Honest, I dont know if it can compete, I am looking to offer an option thats all.

    That said If the m112 comes out a 500hp - 600hp or more mustang. Then I would say it may have the capacity to flow the hot air and may not be a bad option considering I will just be offering brackets and whom ever does the setup will be buying the blower and fit it as they go and remember if the setup can mount a M112, it may be able to mount a twin screw kenne bell.

    Another point is the us dynos, dont go too well with what I have seen here, 400whp from a rear mount turbo setup at 20PSi is what we seem to get down here, just saying, numbers are important but just as that boost and numbers aren't everything at the end of the day I would like to least do the brackets that someone can follow up from and this may be more intricing to the right hand drive market then the US LHD one.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterM52 View Post
    Another point is the us dynos, dont go too well with what I have seen here, 400whp from a rear mount turbo setup at 20PSi is what we seem to get down here, just saying, .
    Again, you still think psi is relevant. You don't understand how boost works.
    Your 20 psi comment = 400hp indicates exactly what I have been trying to get through to you for some time now.

    20 psi with one supercharger is not the same output as 20 psi with another or one of the 150 turbos on the market. Hell even using the same exact turbo you can have a 100+ hp difference just by changing the back housing.
    If your turbo or supercharger is blowing hot air, its not making any more power.
    20psi from a gt3071r no where near comes close to 20 psi from a gt4094r. Both 20 psi one will make 400whp the other 600. Same "psi".

    Dyno shows a good amount, they are more accurate then u think. 1/4 mile trap speed same thing.
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butters Stoch View Post
    Again, you still think psi is relevant. You don't understand how boost works.
    Your 20 psi comment = 400hp indicates exactly what I have been trying to get through to you for some time now.

    20 psi with one supercharger is not the same output as 20 psi with another or one of the 150 turbos on the market. Hell even using the same exact turbo you can have a 100+ hp difference just by changing the back housing.
    If your turbo or supercharger is blowing hot air, its not making any more power.
    20psi from a gt3071r no where near comes close to 20 psi from a gt4094r. Both 20 psi one will make 400whp the other 600. Same "psi".

    Dyno shows a good amount, they are more accurate then u think. 1/4 mile trap speed same thing.
    Its a pretty new turbo, a borg warner I think. I get what you are saying different blowers and turbos output at the same psi. I know that. What I am saying is the US dyno power figures are always higher then NZ ones. for example a 328i with a 5 speed, headers and m50 manifold records 150whp on a good day, in the us its around 220whp with just a manifold! I just dont want to get into the numbers game, but otherwise do agree, dyno, 1/4 trap speed would show a few things but cant expect miracles from a budget build.
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



  22. #222
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    how can it be such a difference between dynos. hp is hp. isn't it ?

  23. #223
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    I could show you Dynos if you dont believe me, just look around the NZ forums, even Aussi forums. Now I am not a NZer, I dont care about their numbers or US Numbers, but even friends in EU seem to get different results. Deal is I have seen a full blown rear mount turbo setup on a S50B32 Euro 3.2l (330HP) with all built insides, (guys dad owns a shop) you name it, even that thing with some new age turbo is not really seeing anywhere near numbers seen by US cars. the same cars with a M50 manifold in NZ record around 80Hp less then US dynos. Even the ford mustangs dont exactly show the same numbers that they do in the states, so its a different numbers game here one I dont want anything much to do with. PSI is not PSI or Boost is not boost, this I understand, but 400WHP from 10PSI has been the laughing stock of the local bmw forums, a M52B28 from those older vortech centri blowers at around 4 - 5 PSi seen barely 210WHP on a good day. Its different how the HP is calculated in US vs whats here, I am not saying ones inflated or the other is wrong, I am just saying I cant promises anything in these numbers game.

  24. #224
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    When putting together a system, there needs to be some type of data.
    Dyno will differ from dyno to dyno, ie DynoJet vs Land and sea vs Mustang. 1/4 trap speed will always be accurate. Unless in NZ your radars are different from USA ? Don't think so, but, you have a clutch on that S/Cer. Get on a dyno, do a pull with it off, then on. Regardless of the NZ vs USA dyno debate, it will show pure gain.
    So, if your car dynos at 150 w/o S/Cer, and 250 with S/Cer there is a known 100whp gain. Its not about a number game, its about data. The gains will not differ from US to NZ, period.
    Humidity, altitude, tire size, all play a part. But, you can simply flip a switch to turn yours off.
    Then you will know expected gains. End result doesn't matter.
    1996 332IS
    Built 3.2
    CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
    Technique Tuning 80# tune.
    1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
    Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
    WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM

  25. #225
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    Will be doing that when I move to the eaton.
    "So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."

    Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??



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