Cheers, Keep an eye out, Will be posting in the UK Bimmerforums. And yes a complete kit certainly can be done if serious, from the complete bolt on brackets, painted in your choice of colour code, down to the supercharger itself and any bolts and stuff, but mind you its a heavy unit, 12KG's in its own, so you will be paying a hefty price on shipping, So on special request I rather send you brackets ready to bolt on, then you can source out the blower yourself and buy the small bits and bobs from your local stores according to my list and guide, you will only need the supercharger, some silicone hoses, some oil and vaccme hoses and barbs along with some inter cooler piping to have your blower manifolds the way you like. As for tuning, I have had a few chats with Enda Wards (END TUNING UK) and they can tune it up for you for a couple of hundred pounds last I checked with them, they can also remotely tune it, if you have INPA and some other stuff.
Yes, Everything is either in rwkw or rwhp, not crank. That was running 4lb, And No Tune.
To give you an Idea of US Dynos and NZ Dynos, its popular belief in NZ that US Dynos are wonky, or rather somewhat over inflated in numbers opposed to NZ/Aus/Euro Dynos. Our 328i (M52B28's) cars Produce around 110rwkw - 120rwkw, the M3's around ~ 150rwkw - 160rwkw. My blower setup on my own car after a proper tune I expect 180rwkw as its running slightly more boost and have a shorter 3.64 LSD.
Complete Kit: Well my idea was to keep things lite, but I guess I can take some orders, What would you consider complete in your definition, are you able to buy hose clamps, silicone hoses, barbs, vacuum and oil hoses from your local supply store, given the list, diagrams, pictures and detailed instructions on what you need and where it needs to go? I want to keep things flexible, Options I can think of would be the 1. Brackets made up all ready to bolt on + Belt + Brackets to Relocate things out of the way and install your oil catch can. Option 2 Can Include the SC14 Supercharger itself + Manifold's..But keep the weight in mind, I rather ship you what you can not get, Brackets & Diagrams, Rest is easy.. Its all about how much you want to spend, can you weld/fabricate or know somebody who does, then it would be cheaper, are you a local or international, then I rather you source out the supercharger and other bits locally as you will spend hundreads on shipping.. much to be said and though of...
??.....
https://m52supercharged.wordpress.co...ed-power-gain/
I like that, I play the devils advocate too often myself, and not looking for play time right now, I respect your long gone past of eagerly offering solutions, I liked your input and like your work overall fly, you learned as you went and you have made tremendous contribitions to this forum as you went through the years. But seriously, I am not in the mood for this.
Car in question, another local, running 4lbs, Not 8 lbs, that car has done 30,000KM since that dyno without any tunes!.
Good you...saw it was good, keep in mind that is a COMPLETELY STOCK AFR with 4 Pounds, so it wont be perfect.
If you bring legitimacy of my work into question then soon when its ready I am more than happy to send you out a copy all expenses paid.
By Holes are you suggesting flaw or suspecting of my design? In such case all I am asking is to show me the Holes, my product will bolt right on and work off the bat, I am confident of that.
Otherwise the only HOLES you are coming up with are how much it will cost, and apparently I can only tell you my costs, In NZ anybody with a Healthy 328i/M52/M50 or M3 /S50/S52 Car and a $2000 NZD budget (thats aroun $1400 USD) can get a nice setup, including the brackets, including all plumbing, including a supercharger, including a tune, including buying my design and having them made or just ordering some from me. How much would it cost in the US? too many variables, I do not know. I have a friend who does panel and welding work, I still have to pay him for his time in all fairness a job is a job.
I bought $100 worth of hoses silicone hoses, few hundred more on all sorts of hoses and fittings that went to waste, Ended up using only 3 76mm silicone hoses, even those cut ups (45 Degree & 2 Straight ones, all 3"), 1 meter of 1/4" oil line, 1" Crank Case Tubing, 1/8" vacuum lines, to just reroute it that is.. I could probably gotten away with 1/3 of the stuff I bought, but remember those were testing phases and I did buy a few times after wasting some stuff..I also bought 2 U Bend intercooler type pipes and had some Straght intercooler pipes. Thats about it!
My personal car has a BOV, my manifold design has BOV option, but I only put it there because I got the BOV for free, you dont need a Bypass valve, the car above is running without any BOV/Bypass etc, I would guess the silicone pipes will just expand a bit if you dont have a BOV under 5 pounds. The car on the dyno has gone with no BOV.
You guys are on track of my plans, will be doing exactly that and post/update my original post, all I was doing was trying to see if there was much interest, it seems the supercahrger required is not even widely used or available or even known in the US! I will however make a list, finalize photos of built, parts needed, and by the end of the year I will have some DYNO Results of my own car.
I will be an anomaly then. Here you guys are making custom turbo kits, but as soon as its a supercharger kit, did cost me a fraction of the costs..every body is all hurr durr and got their panties in a tangle.
Hes an Oppressive Obama /
Last edited by MisterM52; 10-29-2015 at 08:00 AM.
Once everything is posted and has everything I need ect. there is a high chance I will do this since I know where I can get a Previa supercharger and I have always wanted to supercharge my M52. All I would really want is everything I need to bolt in and go. Good luck with it. I am definitely interested once everything is ready. It is a great idea and everything I just don't know how to weld or where I would start which is why it is good you did all of that for us.
E36 328is - (RIP)
E30 1986 "325i" - Project Street/Track car (build thread coming to a forum near you!)
mtshiftboots.com for custom shift boots and ebrake boots for all da scene points!
I see 4 Previa superchargers on eblay, ranging from $269 to $375 (the $375 one has lots of ancillary piping and what appears to be a MAF assembled).
My googling is unable to confirm the if the Previa S/C is the target SC14 model, those listings have strange acronyms like TCR10 TCR11 2TZ, but the pictures look very much like the one in the Engage Foglights video.
There's also a Previa or two being parted out on my local CL... heh heh heh...
Eat, drink, and be merry - for tomorrow we drive.
5psi for everyone !
1996 332IS
Built 3.2
CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
Technique Tuning 80# tune.
1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM
Oh, the drama...
MisterM52,
I think you have a fairly sound design, as evidenced by the successfully running beta test car getting lots of road km despite no tune.
Personally, from a quality control standpoint I would build and sell the hard parts (brackets, piping, etc) because the success of the install depends greatly on the skill of the fabricator.
Many "fabricators" (i.e. my redneck neighbor who can weld reel gud) have a limited understanding of the importance of smaller-than-the-eyeball-and-thumb-can-detect deviations of parallelism, perpendicularity, and straightness for belt-driven systems... which I trust your blueprints specify +/- tolerances for, hmmm?
I will be following this thread, and any other builds that pop up, with interest.
flyfishvt,
I would recommend taking him up on his offer of an all-expense paid copy of the design.
Then we can critique his engineering most cruelly MUHAHAHAHAHA!
- Josh
Eat, drink, and be merry - for tomorrow we drive.
I think OP has a solid idea, in all seriousness, and I respect what he is doing here. Sounds like it will function well for its intended purpose. So good job OP, this is what the forum is all about. At this point, constructive criticism is good.. pointlessly bashing the set up for no reason and coming up with claim after claim about why it won't work is not; OP has responded to everything in a professional manner, good on him!
- - - Updated - - -
Rofl!!Originally Posted by JEC928;28889685
Many "fabricators" (i.e. my redneck neighbor who can weld reel gud) have a limited understanding of the importance of [U
Updates & Pictures Below...
Gentlemen Please NOTE:
The Different Types of Superchargers. Roots, Twin Screw & Centrifugal
1. The "beta car" was using a much smaller centrifugal style supercharger, which are pretty much like running a turbo from a pulley, it makes a lot less power around 4 - 5PSI, that was however to show you the AFR ratios at this boost, Being a the earlier being a centrifugal supercharger however there is very little parasitic drain on the engine and thus keeps your idle good.
2. The SC14 we are using now is a HEAVY Roots/Twin Screw type supercharger, The SC14 still has similar displacement & power output of an Eaton M90(Twin Screw, Although somewhat less efficient. However advantage of this unit is that it costs only 1/5 of an Eaton Unit. Disadvantage of these Roots/Screw type superchargers over your Centrifugal Superchargers are their heavy weight and parasitic drain from the Engine. Which means although it gives linear power throughout the rev range, it also puts a lot more stress to spin the heavy rotors inside, many times as much as a A/C unit would! This will give you low speed/rev idle issues that need to be addressed electronically or manually. Other than that you should be good.
I am curious to the price of the Eaton? Is that a M60 or M90? Normally Do tell me what was it that I needed to "prove" to you? If my design Bolts on the SC14 and Runs it as I claimed? Its Fitment? Its Build Quality? It does all I claim.
I hate to sound like Howard Hughes, But I just proved you wrong about 4 hours ago. The car made its maiden voyage this afternoon with the final bracket designs using the SC14, Stock DME.
Gentlemen, I give you the Spruce Goose..? I mean .... Supercharged M52..
2015-10-30-373.jpg
A really classy noir streamlined design really compared to most kits you see...
2015-10-30-378.jpg
You can tell apart from the brackets & catch can I just have some hose clamps, silicone hoses and merely relocated the few things in the way and intentionally kept the design lite and minimalist.
2015-10-30-376.jpg
We simply Modified a M50 Radiator Top Hose and put it reverse, this however does not allow the fan to be mounted without hitting the fan, so fan delete / electric fan mod may be underway, not a problem I guess, more hp!
2015-10-30-374.jpg
Summery of the Day, I reached the other town up north around Midday, Most of the day was wasted because we modified a smaller 100mm fixed pulley(could had just bought one off ebay! oh well learning curve), then used a smaller 6PK2250 Belt and it all upped the power quite a bit more than I expected, apart from running away from the rain often, The car was finally Run, using the Stock DME, All adaptations erased, It drove fine and often lost traction, given I was driving on a WET Day in Gravel back roads.
The Bad: Its still learning the new power curve however in all fairness not without its own inherited issues, at first it gave some fuel pump & fuel bank 2 codes, which was erased and after a bit it settled itself. Currently its running rich as the DME is somewhat over fueling tryig to compensate for all the extra air. The other issue being I have as expected a low idle due to the heavy SC14, The idle which is somewhat fixed by turning on the AC or adjusting the TB Cable for now, Do keep in mind my car is an Auto, so this will be far less on a Manual, I will definitely have to get my idle reprogramed to be raised when I go for a dyno tune, I also plan on using larger injectors as I am pushing far more power then the stock SC14, Injectors in this case is particularly for MY OWN Build, which I estimate to have 20% - 30% more power than the beta car.
Do you still think it can not be done? Its easier than you think, making the brackets was the hard part..Next week, I will try to have some videos taken of it i the highway, some pulls with the stock DME, hopefully nothing breaks! This will finally join my blog and I will be ready to try and offer my design or take in a few first custom orders.
Original calculations dictated 5 PSI for everyone (like the beta car) and for my personal setup 7PSI at 7000RPM using a Ford/Holden modified aircon pulley. I think it may be a bit more than 5 PSI now,Actually maybe a bit more even before 7000RPM because of the smaller pulley I am using unlike the stock SC14 Pulley. My BOV was setup at 9PSI and it kept going off quite fast. Pray for me Butters, PRAY!!
2015-10-30-372.jpg
Good point Josh... I like the fact that you do have some exprience when it comes to Superchargers, otherwise you wouldn't known the deviations and fitmet issues that can arise on belt driven pullyes if youa re off a few mm! The designs do mention that the final fitment should be precise and depedend on skills of the welder.
Had a chat with my fabricator, to make things easy, what can be done is deliver it as a kit set, so parts are cut and would bolt the blower right on except for the bottom rear bracket that would require personal fitment and weldig that even a novice redneck can tackle and can no longer greatly affect fitment, However I dont think I can meet too many orders, even 5 a month maybe pushing it, hence I kept the option to buy my design whiteprints aswell for the more technically minded.
Thats not a MAF, thats your bypass valve piping, you discard that and use the left over hole to mount a BOV, and just cut the manifolds into the shape you like and then its just either silicone hoses or weld some inter cooler piping.. The bypass valve system can only be used with the original Toyota engine they came off, these blowers in those cars were electronically controlled and only came on when full throttle was pressed. I bought the SC14 from a friend for $300NZD, Most Holden guys use it around. So anyhow, there are a few different types, mainly the variations are in the Pulley Size & Mounting Holes, The one we are using I suspect maybe from a 1GGZE Supra or an Estima/Previa. Basically the smaller Cross Pulley and a Yellow Dipstick, those two are the main ones to look out for.
Being frank, do you want a Kitset shipped to you or the design so you and your redeck friend could have a jam at it?
I think I may have some good news sometime soon, I plan to bring my car home next week and eventually Dyno Tune it i December..However as November, I can either sell you a copy of my design or have Brackets made and sent, Basically all you need to bolt the supercharger is the Bracket system that replaces the engine lift near your Vanos and the Powersteering Pump Bracket so its all straight, however it will require some welding to make it precision fit, I will try to gather a list of parts and stuff used next week though, and if you are serious let me know and I will have it sent your way, Will require some of the $$ in advance to get work started and the rest upon delivery, also would require you to sign an agreement that you wont go around selling and copying my brackets, you have full rights to use it or if you bought the design white prints you have the full rights to make a single copy.
Thank you...
Last edited by MisterM52; 10-30-2015 at 06:47 AM.
I would be interested in a bolt on brackets and everything but would like to see how things pan out after you get it dynotuned and how the car drives after a couple of months of driving. Another question about the brackets, the position of the one seems in the way of a regular maintenance item (oil filter) so basically we would have to unbolt that bracket just to get to the oil filter?
E36 328is - (RIP)
E30 1986 "325i" - Project Street/Track car (build thread coming to a forum near you!)
mtshiftboots.com for custom shift boots and ebrake boots for all da scene points!
Is it just me, or were the responses to a lot of fly's concerns along the lines of.....oh yeah my car has that/is getting that, but nah, you don't need it. Or the "proof" is coming from a car with a different set-up.
BOV - Not needed, but I have one.
Tune - Not needed, but I'm getting one because I have issues.
AFR - Claim 5-7 psi, show evidence that under 5 is fine. Current car with actual blower apparently has issues.
Price - Still unclear
Correct me if I'm wrong...
BOV or Diverter valve is needed.
1996 332IS
Built 3.2
CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
Technique Tuning 80# tune.
1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM
Very interesting, good luck sorting everything out, this is pretty cool and intriguing.
CBlock
BOV - Beta Car didn't need it for ~5 PSI. I am aiming for more power, I have one laying around, I used it.
Tune - Again, Beta car did not need it, it did run rich but adjusted with a Fuel Pressure Regulator, I on the other hand am not even using a FPR and pushing nearly twice as much boost as the Beta Car.
AFR- Again, Beta car was to show you under 5 PSI it still had acceptable or even good AFR for something without a Tune, the DME can adjust, but I recommend a tune
Issues- Only has low speed/idle issue & running rich so far, thats expected, just like when you turn the ac on, it puts extra load on the engine so the revs go down, thats why as soon as you press the AC Switch the DME increases the revs about 200rpm! Beta car used a Centrifugal Supercharger, much smaller and liter and has little parasitic drain, now here I am using a heavy duty SC14. Theory remains the same.
Price - I will gather a list of parts needed, but I was thinking $150 for the White Prints..Or $500 - $600 for the Brackets made and shipped out.
Thanks, Keep an eye out I guess.
- - - Updated - - -
Oh Sorry, missed your post... Yes the Top bracket/tensioner has to come off to remove the oil filter, 4 Bolts, 1x 13mm, 1x12mm and 2x 16mm. It was made for easy disconnection, Just add 10mins on top of your work, thats all, I think anybody can spare that.
Good work man, something different.
But looking at the photos, I think the bracket would not fit s50b30 because it would not clear the intake plenum (its a bit bigger than the m50). Also the mounting point near the vanos is totally different on the s50b30/32.
Appreciated man..Can you tell me if the bottom Power steering pump and reservoir setup remains the same on the S50? I cant remember any more, I see there is that Top Engine mount thing that comes close, one of my earlier mucking around with the designs involved mounting to that one as well, other guy I knew had it on the S50B30..I still have them given they were quite crude and I have further modified the top bracket and shortened it to use on another test car, but I still got them and they are work able still, just sitting here If you want to give it a go on the S50B30 then those brackets are yours for $200 AUD shipped. The SC14 Makes 6 PSI stock on the M3.
sc14 m3 s50.jpg
Last edited by MisterM52; 10-31-2015 at 06:06 AM.
Have driven it today quite a bit, drives really well, no more error codes, feels a bit faster then Euro spec M3's, pushing around 7.5PSI estimated.. the whine and BOV eeeeeennnnnnnnnnnnnnn..Pssssssssss noise is really worth it and turned a lot of heads, the only issue seems to be the idle due to my car being an 5 speed auto and secondly extra load and no tune, a tune will set it all right, also got my white giant injectors today from a bimmerforum member, although it seems the cars stock injectors are doing their best to keep up, surely the bigger injectors put in when I dyno tune it will do it all for me.
This is sick If it was capable of 400+ whp id be all over it!
Unfortunately the SC14 on our cars (with 6" Crank) can only run safely upto 11PSI or a 3.5"/82-87mm Pulley before crapping out as it will be spinning at 12000RPM at 7,000RPM Engine speed, thats its max limit. However what it can do is add around 100+ HP to anything you slap it on to with some accommodating mods as CAI & M50manifold. So on a M3 you will add a good 100+ HP even with a 103mm pulley. Its just the whine that does it for me..it actually made people turn their heads, lol, I always thought that was chezy but wow, I love that sound! I will post videos soon one of these days, currently working this week on an excellent, the greatest ever Fan Delete & Electric Fan Conversion Mod Writeup, ever
Last edited by MisterM52; 11-01-2015 at 11:59 PM.
My car is already FBO, 286/272 cams, m50 mani, full header back exhaust, intake/injectors, tuned, etc etc.. all in sig.
If I knew how these super aggressive cams would respond to a SC Id be more tempted. Not really sure, heard that they wouldn't work well in a SC application...
Cheers, if you are ever keen, I do have some left over brackets from a M3 project (the yellow car), the bottom ones should bolt on but we modified the top bracket for M50's so it will need to be extended a few inches to reach the engine mount/vanos, yours if you ever want, enough room to toy around with, will let them go for a few hundred bucks since I cant assure 100%.. very early prototype M3 brackets in question are below
2015-11-02-383.jpg2015-11-02-384.jpg
Whats your 0-100 (0-60) times? I am just trying to compare with the NZ/Euro Spec M3's with the rest of the world and ofcourse real world numbers not those stuff I read on charts..
Last edited by MisterM52; 11-02-2015 at 01:02 AM.
E36 328is - (RIP)
E30 1986 "325i" - Project Street/Track car (build thread coming to a forum near you!)
mtshiftboots.com for custom shift boots and ebrake boots for all da scene points!
^^Those will be perfect with a SC.
PM me later today after I am done half way through a good electrical fan write up..I have an extra 115mm pulley here too and some bits, can help you set up a SC14 on the cheap, could make you a set of custom brackets or just send you the design so you can make them yourself..Given it has dropped my fuel ecconomy and idle fluctuates if revs are kept under 1K, but otherwise its become somewhat of a highway monster.. but thats fully stock ecu no tunes! I can only imagine what the car can do with a proper Dyno Tune... I will post some videos later this week after I am done with my Radiator Fan Mod....How much are the cost to have those cams on the M52? I bought some cams last year but never used them as I didn't have the locking tools etc and it seemed like a not so worth while mod...so ended up selling them to a local who used them! if you have cam tools, I may end up getting cams in the future..
For M50manifold, CAI, S52 Cams, I have just what you need... I have a shark injector unused, yours for $200 shipped if you want?
2015-09-10-289.jpg
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-17...-manifold.aspx
Last edited by MisterM52; 11-02-2015 at 06:42 PM.
"So we've come to the conclusion that BMW just has parts laying around they decide to throw on cars for no reason."
Interest on a Very Budget Supercharger Build??
im really just worried with me doing the shark injector reflash and how a supercharger would respond with that tune on my car. but i guess ill just do it anyway? maybe after I finish my e30
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks for the offer but I will be grabbing the whole package from Turner Motorsports with the CAI, Tune, and M50 manifold swap setup. The cams costed me $350 USD. I am probably waiting till my E30 runs and drives so I can drive that while I swap everything over in my E36 ect. ect. ect.
E36 328is - (RIP)
E30 1986 "325i" - Project Street/Track car (build thread coming to a forum near you!)
mtshiftboots.com for custom shift boots and ebrake boots for all da scene points!
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