E36 M3 Porsche 996 front caliper conversion

[RickyN F355]

has anyone tried to measure what the real word daily driving difference is with this upgrade? is it measurable? im not talking about track use.

[Mklock]

Real world difference will be negligible, (It will stop perfectly fine.) You won't even notice it, it's when your hammering on them is when it gets bad. I can tell you first hand experience the backs WILL lock up without proper setup. This is with ALL 4 996 calipers. As far as bling and real world they would be fine but don't expect them to be setup out of the box when in "track" use.

[ECSTuning]

golgo13 if you're trying to keep costs down keep your eyes open around turkey day....

-James

[Dane36328i]

Ii have e36 sedan and just bought a 6piston caliper with 325x25 rotor would this fit under my apex arc8 17x9 et42

[aeronaut]

Ii have e36 sedan and just bought a 6piston caliper with 325x25 rotor would this fit under my apex arc8 17x9 et42

Without a lot more detail, no one can tell.

[Mklock]

Yes they will 325 rotor is stock size.

[pbonsalb]

The Apex wheels have pretty good clearance inside. I’d guess that at worst you would need a spacer. Some 6 piston calipers may be bulkier than others. I have Stoptech ST40 332mm front and rear. They fit under my Apex 17x9 ET41 but not under 17x7.5 ET41 Contours without a 25mm spacer due to the wheel design.

[TH3 Shifty]

25mm spacer?? wow thats large, cant you get a larger ET wheel ?

[pbonsalb]

Sure. My Apex ARC8 17x9 ET41 fit great -- I could probably have run a larger BBK under those. But my snow wheels are 17x7.5 ET41 Contours with 225/50/17 snows. This is the first winter with the BBK, and I had not tested. Otherwise, I might have bought a used set of wheels that would fit better for winter. I think 8.5 Contours might have fit better but I wanted narrower wheels for snow. The spacers got me on the road the fastest, but I had to buy longer studs and it was a pain to double nut each loctited stud off.

[Joekart]

just my 2 cents as I have a 2001 996 C4 and an 95 M3. The M3 brakes are WAY better which a attribute to better pads. Jurid Black on the M3 and Textar stock on the Porsche which pretty much suck in comparison. The Porsche is going to get and upgrade shortly, BTW stock P-car pads chew through rotors like a fat kid with a box of cereal.

[JJJames]

A set of PFC direct drive rotors plus the PFC pads to the OEM setup is awesome. Can't imagine spending 3k+ on a BBK being worth it, but thats just me.

[HalfFast1]

has anyone tried to measure what the real word daily driving difference is with this upgrade? is it measurable? im not talking about track use.

For the street, not worth it. For the track, yes.

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just my 2 cents as I have a 2001 996 C4 and an 95 M3. The M3 brakes are WAY better which a attribute to better pads. Jurid Black on the M3 and Textar stock on the Porsche which pretty much suck in comparison. The Porsche is going to get and upgrade shortly, BTW stock P-car pads chew through rotors like a fat kid with a box of cereal.

So if you used the same level pad on the 996, would it be as good or better than the M3?

[TostitoBandito]

A set of PFC direct drive rotors plus the PFC pads to the OEM setup is awesome. Can't imagine spending 3k+ on a BBK being worth it, but thats just me.

I have that PFC setup and love it. I also couldn't justify $3-4k+ for a quality BBK, but under $1k for some nice PFC two piece rotors and caliper rebuilds I could do. Combined with cutting the tops of my front brake splash guards off, my front brakes now tend to stay cooler than my rears.

[pbonsalb]

Real world daily driving is not much different if using the sane pads, braided lines, good fluid. I recently changed from M3 calipers with newer rotors and hawk hp 5.0 pads, braided lines, good fluid, and Bimmerworld brass guide bushings to stoptech ST40 front and rear 332mm with stoptech sport pads and noticed no real difference in daily driving. Maybe slightly better pedal feel. Probably have to be driving hard on a track or in the canyons or mountains to run out of the stopping power you can get from stock brakes. And my car is turbo with 600 rwhp and gets to 130 fast.

Pads make the most dramatic difference if you don’t mind dust and squealing. Run Hawk HP+ or G Loc R6 and you may hate them for the dust and noise but they will stand your car on its nose on the street. Not track pads though. Track pads trade cold bite for higher temp fade resistance.

I like my fancy brakes. Wanted some for years but you definitely don’t need them in the street.

[Joekart]

For the street, not worth it. For the track, yes.

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So if you used the same level pad on the 996, would it be as good or better than the M3?

I sure hope so. The Porsche will need brakes this spring. 4 rotors and pads are going to be a spendy bit for sure.

[HalfFast1]

I sure hope so. The Porsche will need brakes this spring. 4 rotors and pads are going to be a spendy bit for sure.

Pad choice makes a huge difference. Stock pads on your P car, against race pads on the M3 is no comparison. Put the same pads on the P car and it will far outshine the M3

[TostitoBandito]

Yeah, track pads make a huge difference but only under track conditions meaning much hotter than you're going to get them driving on the street. They're flat out dangerous when cold since they have no bite, and shouldn't really be driven on the street (except maybe to/from the track if it's warm and you're very careful).

[aeronaut]

Yeah, track pads make a huge difference but only under track conditions meaning much hotter than you're going to get them driving on the street. They're flat out dangerous when cold since they have no bite, and shouldn't really be driven on the street (except maybe to/from the track if it's warm and you're very careful).

I've never had any problems running PFC08s or PFC01s on the street. Far from dangerous. Sure, they have less feel and a little less initial bite. But they will stop car EASILY, especially on street tires.

[das borgen]

I've never had any problems running PFC08s or PFC01s on the street. Far from dangerous. Sure, they have less feel and a little less initial bite. But they will stop car EASILY, especially on street tires.

Agreed, I've done it too for a couple of months on PFC08 pads front and rear back when I still had stock calipers front and rear

[HalfFast1]

I've never had any problems running PFC08s or PFC01s on the street. Far from dangerous. Sure, they have less feel and a little less initial bite. But they will stop car EASILY, especially on street tires.

I would expect though that your rotors are trashed. Race pads normally don't work well when only heated to street driving temps, and at those lower temps, they eat rotors like cheese graters.

[aeronaut]

Nope. Rotor wear is very reasonable, they get heat micro-cracks long before they get any real thickness wear. Sure, it's wears the rotors faster than street pads will, but rotors are $40, and it's far from terrible. And I have to be careful to re-bed them at the track. But that's not a real issue for a HPDE car. Bottom line, during the season, I run PFC08s or 01s full time (to/from track a few hundred miles, light weekend use, and at track) and have no real down sides (other than the funny looks from the loud screeching every time I stop ).

[jayjaya29]

I run track pads on the street year round...no problems. I even drove it in 20 degree temps with no issues. PFC08s

[Mesquite]

I am curious about something, the math doesn’t seem to work for these calipers (Boxster S/996). I’m on my phone, but at home I have a spreadsheet and the clamping force of the fronts calculates to be inferior to the stock M3 setup. When you factor in the rears, it just gets worse.

That being said, can anybody point me to the math that shows me that this is a better set-up than stock, as all I see is anecdotal evidence.

I see quite a few people running these with seemingly good success and I’ve had a set in my garage for a few years, at this point. I would like them to be a good alternative.

[Mesquite]

I am curious that I see a few people running these calipers and having success.

I’m on my phone, but at home I have a spreadsheet that shows that these calipers are inferior to the stock set-up by a decent margin in clamping force, at least on the fronts. Can anybody point me to the math that shows this to be false?

I’ve had a set sitting in my garage for at least a couple years, now, and haven’t used them due to this. It seems to me bias would be adversely effected. I would like to use them.

Thanks.

[Mesquite]

Interesting thread...

I've had a set of these sitting in my garage for a few years, now, waiting to go on a project car of mine. I've hesitated, though, as all the math that I've seen or calculated shows the front calipers to be weaker than the stock M3 calipers and shifting bias considerably to the rear. It seems there's talk and calculations early in the thread.

It seems that a lot of people on the forums are having success in the real world, but can anybody point me to some calculations that support running these? I'd like to use my set, but only if it's an improvement.

Thanks.