740il p0011 bad times

[Dhione]

I got a 2000 e38 and I just did the valve cover gaskets, cam gaskets, vanos solenoid seal, and chain tensioner. I got the car back together, took it for a short drive and after like 5 mins of driving the car started to run rough at idle with the light coming on. I The swaped the cam sensors side to side and the p0011 did not change. I don't have any chain chatter and I didn't have any before. I did remove the vanos solenoids and put them back in. If I swap them side to side could that mess it up. Thank for any help ahead of time.

[Mayorchuck]

Towed to E38 forum.

[chris33]

Did you reconnect the leads to the VANOS solenoids?

[740iSport303]

Did you verify timing of the cams and Vanos gears before you put the covers back on? If not, I'd bet your vanos gear/timing is off.

[Dhione]

Did you verify timing of the cams and Vanos gears before you put the covers back on? If not, I'd bet your vanos gear/timing is off.

I have not tryed to disconnect and reconnect the vanos. I did not move the timing while the tensioner was removed. Could the timing jump while driving it. The car ran great at first then out of nowhere the cel came on and started running rough at idle. Above idle it gets smooth.

[cazal740i]

My personal view on the matter is when ever you install the NEW Chain tensioner and vanos Solenoids at same time you have inadvertently let off too much chain slack. Start up with fresh oil took a bit for oil pressure to build up
causing the chain to skip....Rather easy fix...
Get yourself a hold of some Vanos M62TU timing tools, Remove Valve covers and upper timing covers and re time the engine.
No point chasing codes via swapping out solenoids or cps sensors etc...just re time and u will be back to normal

[Dhione]

My personal view on the matter is when ever you install the NEW Chain tensioner and vanos Solenoids at same time you have inadvertently let off too much chain slack. Start up with fresh oil took a bit for oil pressure to build up
causing the chain to skip....Rather easy fix...
Get yourself a hold of some Vanos M62TU timing tools, Remove Valve covers and upper timing covers and re time the engine.
No point chasing codes via swapping out solenoids or cps sensors etc...just re time and u will be back to normal

Ok that sounds good. Where can I get this tool kit from for cheap or is there a way to do this without them.

[cazal740i]

No getting around it
They have tools for rent or ask to borrow a set here from a member.

[kouks]

Ok that sounds good. Where can I get this tool kit from for cheap or is there a way to do this without them.

Go here http://www.bimmertoolrental.com/ or find a forum member near you that has a set to let you use

I also recommend you stop driving the car. Being one tooth off may not be a bad problem, but if it slips any further you could impact the valves and then its all she wrote for the engine.

[Dhione]

Which kit do I need.

[clarkitect]

Get the M62,M62TU Master Timing Kit V1, third one down on the page.

Follow the timing procedure shown here in this TIS. You will just be timing the engine for now so you don't need to strip it all down like you would if you changed the timing chain and guides, just the VC and UTC.

http://www.bmw-planet.com/lib/E39.Vanos2.pdf

Pretty sure Nordman went through this a little while ago. Not sure if he used the timing tools to re-time everything, or if he just used the holes in the UTC. That's an option too but I have never done that.

Good luck with it guy.

[Dhione]

Well I got those tool and got everything reset and then when I was intstalling the cam sensors wheels the drivers side wheel lock doesn't line up with the hole and bmw tool rental is closed on Fridays and the only work by email. What do I do now.

- - - Updated - - -

1030150929.jpg

Here is what it looks like right now

[clarkitect]

Did you do the timing procedure starting on page 12 of that TIS I referenced? The idea of that tool in the photo is that it aligns the sesnsor wheel properly when you install it. If you carefully followed that procedure, you should be able to loosely install the sensor wheel, then tighten it in that proper position.

But you must hold the cam with a wrench, and use the cam adjustment tool to rotate the vanos all the way to the left first, then tighten, and install the sensor wheel. Flywheel needs to be in the locked position to do this.

Carefully read that timing procedure, page 12 is where you want to start for what you are doing.

[Dhione]

Yes I did all that but if I line the wheel with the tool it will not mount flush. If I adjust the tool will that mess this up. I did everything for the timing I am just trying to put it back to gather now

[clarkitect]

Something does not seem right. You should be able to rotate that wheel to align the pin with the hole. Don't adjust the tool, it should be set as it is.

Described here from the Beisan site:



Install bank 1 & 2 timing wheel positioning tool. For each timing wheel perform following.
Mount corresponding timing wheel positioning tool at timing cover head surface and insert tool pin in timing wheel hole. Rotate timing wheel as needed for pin/hole alignment.
Mount positioning tool with upper timing cover long bolt at top and short bolt at bottom. Rest positioning tool top bracket on head top to align positioning tool and facilitate bolt insertion. Do not fully tighten bolts at this time.
Precisely align positioning tool by aligning top bracket onto head top surface. Lightly tighten mounting bolts (10mm socket 3/8” / 3/8” extension).

[Dhione]

That's what I did and the passenger side head is good it's just the driver side head that will not line up.

[clarkitect]

Ok but you picture was the passenger side.

Are the the cam locking blocks still properly set? The alignment tool is properly installed? Vanos shaft was turned fully counter-clockwise? (Although I don't think that would effect the seating of the sensor wheel?) The wheel is supposed to spin when the locking nut is loose.

[dannyzabolotny]

If you timed it correctly it should line up properly as soon as you put on the cam lock blocks. Redo your timing, and make sure to do it extra carefully. A really common mistake is not counter holding the camshaft enough, which causes the cam lock blocks to lift up and out of position. You wanna make sure those blocks don't move at all while torquing the camshaft bolts. The second most common mistake is not retarding the Vanos fully, which can throw it off.

JimLev has two excellent videos for timing. I followed it for both of the M62's that I've rebuilt, and it's worked really well so far

[Dhione]

So I reset the drivers side and had the same outcome. Swapped the cam sensor wheels and got the same out come. I then loosened the tool up and it had a little play in it and I got it to pin. But as soon as I tighten the bolts up the pin locks and you can no longer slide the pin in and out. This sucks because the cel is for the other side

[IR M5]

Are you checking for continuity after the mechanical portion is set? Also, a second set of hands helps tremendously.

[pnottus]

P0011 code definition

Camshaft Position “A” - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1)
What the P0011 code means

P0011 is the OBD-II generic code indicating the engine control module (ECM) has determined that the bank 1 intake camshaft is more advanced than what the ECM has commanded it be. This over-advanced condition could be during advancing or retarding of the camshaft timing.
What causes the P0011 code?

• The camshaft and crankshaft sensors have indicated the camshaft is more advanced than the ECM has commanded it to advance.
  
• The camshaft is too advanced when the ECM has commanded the camshaft to retard to a lower timing level.
  
• The oil control solenoid to the bank 1 camshaft may be stuck or have clogged passages.
  
• The oil is too thick causing the passages to become clogged due to lack of oil flow to and from the camshaft phasers.
  
• The camshaft phasers are stuck in the advanced position.

What are the symptoms of the P0011 code?

• The ECM will turn on the Check Engine Light and command the camshaft to go to its normal starting position if possible.
  
• The engine may have a hard start condition if the cam is stuck in a too far advanced or retarded timing position.
  
• The engine will have a reduction in fuel mileage due to the camshafts not being in their optimal positions to get the best fuel mileage.
  
• The engine may run rough, hesitate, or stall depending on camshaft positions.
  
• The engine emissions may exceed federal levels and fail an emissions test.

Note: The symptoms may change depending on the camshaft timing positions when the camshaft stopped advancing or retarding.
How does a mechanic diagnose the P0011 code?

• A visual inspection to determine any electrical connector, wiring, or valve issues of the camshaft oil control valve for the bank 1 intake camshaft.
  
• Check the engine for it to be full of clean engine oil with the correct viscosity.
  
• The technician will scan and document the codes received and view the freeze frame data to see when the code was set.
  
• The codes should then be reset to clear the OBD-II fault codes and retest the vehicle to see if the P0011 code comes back.
  
• If the code returns, then the next step for the technician to do is perform a manufacturer's specific pinpoint test for the P0011 code and repair as needed.

Note: Follow the manufacturer's recommended pinpoint test to narrow down the problem since each engine may be tested differently and possible engine internal damage may be done if tests are not performed in accordance with a correct procedure.
Common mistakes when diagnosing the P0011 code?

Follow these simple guidelines to prevent mistakes:

• Always do a visual inspection for common problems like checking to see if all electrical connectors are connected.
  
• Check engine oil to see if it is full, clean, and of the correct viscosity.
  
• Check, document and clear failure codes. Test to verify the code coming back before any further tests are done.
  
• The manufacturer pinpoint test procedures should be followed step-by-step without skipping any steps to prevent a misdiagnosis and replacing of good components.
  
• Do not replace any sensors or components unless tests indicate a problem.

How serious is the P0011 code?

• The engine may run erratic and stall, hesitate, run rough, or have a hard starting condition.
  
• The engine may have excessive fuel consumption, carbon fouling of engine components, and various drive complaints depending on the camshaft failed position.
  
• Driving the vehicle for prolonged time with the camshafts not advancing or retarding may cause other problems to the valve train or engine depending on the cause of the failure.

What repairs can fix the P0011 code?

• Resetting the fault codes and performing a road test
• Changing the oil and filter to the proper oil viscosity for the engine specifications
• Repairing or replacing the wiring to the camshaft oil control valve for bank 1 intake camshaft
• Replacing the camshaft oil control valve for bank 1 intake camshaft
• Checking the timing chain alignment for jumped timing problems

Additional comments for consideration regarding the P0011 code

Just a little info i found before doing the dreaded overhaul.... The engine oil passages through the camshafts and oil control valves are a specific size and only the manufacturer's recommended oil viscosity should be used. If too thick or thin oil is used, the camshaft timing phasers may not change the camshaft timing advance as the manufacturer’s designed them to and may cause premature failure of camshaft and related engine components from lack of proper lubrication.