BMW E36 M3 - HK Audio system questions, head unit replacement

[CMG]

This is in a 99 BMW M3 vert. Has the HK system with aftermarket old alpine head unit. Sounds ok and sub works but gets distorted at higher volume, the head unit sucks. I do not know how it is wired up i will have to see. Just had a couple questions so i can know what to look into.

-Since my sub works should i assume i have an aftermarket amp for that? Is there any way to get the oem sub to work with aftermarket head unit without adding a dedicated amp?
-Does the stock system have 4 pre-amp inputs from head unit to amp? If no pre-amp is available from aftermarket head unit it can be gotten from a CD changer output adapter?
-Once 4 channels hit amp does it have an internal active crossover that splits to the other 9 channels? Are the ohms output to all the channels the same or does it vary?

[944CS]

on the E36 HK all the speaker pics I've seen show 2 ohm speakers (rear 6x9 baskets on the 2/4 door non verts say 2 ohm 30w/ 3 ohm 20w).

My only other advice for you is that if you get a head unit with 7+ band eq, you will be able to tune out a lot of the distortion which comes from the smaller speakers getting too much low freq. signal.

[CMG]

Looked into it a little and doesn't look like you can get preamp out from cd changer. RCA are preamp so i could just use an aftermarkey deck and rca out to line in adapters.

[CMG]

?

[tyr283]

What exactly are you trying to do? I'm guessing the aftermarket head unit is currently wired with an aftermarket harness which feeds the hi-level outputs into the factory amp from which it is split to all the speakers including the sub. Unfortunately, that means that the input is often too hot and it cause quality to degrade so the solution is usually to install and aftermarket amp

[tyr283]

And yes, the amp splits the 4 channel inputs into 9 channels all of which have the same impedance on them

[n601ap]

I finally got around to pulling the door panels and noticed the mid range and tweeter speakers are different impedance( 4 & 8) by Nokia is this usual factory practice for the base radio system?

[CMG]

The system right now is oem hk with older alpine deck. Everything works but sound and adjustment sucks, as does reception. I want to either get a better aftermarket deck or switch back to oem to improve things. I mainly just want low distortion, good frequency balance at all levels, good receiver, and aux. input.

[944CS]

I finally got around to pulling the door panels and noticed the mid range and tweeter speakers are different impedance( 4 & 8) by Nokia is this usual factory practice for the base radio system?

yes

[grandparipper]

The factory stuff has the wrong impedance to mix and match with aftermarket stuff. Replace the head unit with one that has enough RCA outputs to fit what you plan to do. I like decent power and a solid sub. The last system i did was pretty simple and sounded pretty good. A relatively cheap JVC CD player running four 6.5" Blaupunkt separates. I ran a sub RCA output to a single strong sub amp that drove just one 8" sub in a decent sealed box. Normally, I run a four channel amp for the mains, plus a sub amp and sub, but the deck power seemed adequate and was much simpler.

[Shann1onPi]

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[CMG]

In my other m3 i have full aftermarket system and i love it but i want to keep the vert mainly oem. Other than sound quality the only other thing i like about aftermarket decks is the bluetooth for music. If i were to just swap back to oem head unit how do i find out which one is correct for the 99 m3? I can just use an adapter into cd plug for phone connect right?

[grandparipper]

My suggestion is to keep the OEM stuff as an option to revert to when you sell it. To get decent power, sound quality, and flexibility, go with aftermarket. The stuff is not as expensive as it used to be unless you go crazy. Replace the head unit, run RCAs to an amp with good speakers, and run a sub amp and a pair of 8" or 10" subs if you have the room. Leave the factory wiring in place for the possible future reinstall.
I did run a set of 4 aftermarket separates just using the deck power of a cheap JVC deck and I was surprised that it could drive them fairly well. I set the deck up to only drive them down to about 80 or 100 hz, so the power demand was not so great. The sub amp and sub took it down to the lower frequencies with authority. Simple, fairly easy, and not too expensive, but it sounded very good.
Deck $100, Separates $110 per pair times 2, sub amp $200, 8" sub $80 in a home made box, RCAs left over from another installation, ~$25.

[deayge]

I agree with grandparipper!
I have a decent HU wired up to the factory system and it sonds great at low volume but distorts at higher volumes, espically on metal like pantera or megadeth. Becasue I love system of the down and rage against the machine I need excellent SQ, and to achieve that at a high volume you will need more power/amped speakers. On a nother note, I also am trying to set myself up to have 5.1 oneday too when I change to a different deck. This is mostly for pink floydd lol.
ANYWAY...
To get low distortion you will most def need to get rid of the factory amp. There are options on how to do this. I like the idea grandparripper has about keeping the amp for easy install later, but I plan on keeping my m3 forever So im gonna rip the amp out. I already riped the cd changer and head unit out. I stil have them for sure, and will keep them? maybe...
I was on the same "keep oem" mission last year. Well here I am collecting infinity speakers, old MB quartz xovers, boston acoustics and MB quartz amps, for the low.
THe only "no name" im using is the vifa mids in the doors with the cut off ears.

I have found this post on accident searching for answers to using factory wiring. I know many people say don't do it, but it looks (based on reading) to be quality wire.

SO my plan is to rip the amp out cut the wire :/ (there was someone making harness a while ago but I think they stoped.)
replace speakers
xover amp everything (i was given a nice mb quartz amp and got a good deal on a boston gt24)
subs bla bla


hope this helps a little. I typed it quick and Im not gonna edit it. I have many things to do good luck!

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I do believe any oem head unit will work like the one I have from a 98 m3, but you will have the same distortion issue. The oem cd changer should fit any deck that was factory from an e36 with the cd changer port on back. I remember something about the bmw busisness cd player being the best, but that may have been e46 so search that.

In my other m3 i have full aftermarket system and i love it but i want to keep the vert mainly oem. Other than sound quality the only other thing i like about aftermarket decks is the bluetooth for music. If i were to just swap back to oem head unit how do i find out which one is correct for the 99 m3? I can just use an adapter into cd plug for phone connect right?

[CMG]

I know the various ways to add aftermarket, you can check my threads from like 7 or 8 years ago when I did a full system in the coupe that is still going strong. Yes you can use the factory amp wiring for speaker signal, but you still have to run RCAs so might as well run fresh speaker. The OEM HK system is pretty damn good for an old ass stock system, the only thing I want to add by using aftermarket is using Bluetooth to play music from my pocket. I actually found the old stock cassette deck and cd changer in my box of parts, so I might look into just swapping back to that.

[deayge]

I'm gonna check those threads out thanks. I agree the stock system is pretty good, but I am audophile since my first pair of "old school big @$$ headphones" Therefore I need a concert hall in my car. Plus I like weird unpopular music. Rap always sounds good lol, but some dream theather, Steve vai, satraini, pantera, megadeth can never be clean enough even with Bose headphones. <~~~my baseline goal aha Dream on!

Ps check this out...
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...68&postcount=7

this is the direction I thought I was headed, then I got caught up in speaker hype! now I know I am going to use my old infinity xovers, my quart xovers, and I'll add high pass/low pass as needed. Yes resistance test everything with ohm meter.
If and When I blow the speakers I'll get paper speakers from parts express, as the vifa/Tiffany loudspeaker I used (per others suggestions here) sound great on the stock amp (but it is eq'ed well for those speakers) hence the need for xovers and custom coil/cap setups to further control the eq and ohm load.

Regarding the factory amp it is a good amp and the stock HK system has a wide tonality and decent SQ until you add a sub and wanna feel the sound. Then the amp needs upgraded. The reason for this is is simple. The stock HK amp has a 1% thd iirc and my new one has .01 so the stock hk speakers that are paper sound great on my mock up out of the car.

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excuse me I think it is 10% for the stock hk. Also the lows that are stock in e36 clash with the subs that people liek me add.

[CMG]

Crossovers are essential to any set up, but for the most part the powered xovers in the amp is good enough. Around 100-150hz is the range for the xover both lp and hp. I experimented with coils and caps back in the day when you could get the stuff at military surplus stores. I think i still have a 1/3 farad cap i got for $5. Coils suck power and caps do nothing for the average sub 500w system. Multi channel eq are cool but more for fun as a good middle ground can be found by just tuning all the different channels with eq and gain. Rear speakers can be upgraded to 6x9" with adapters to fill in tge mid weak spot. Where did you find the oem hk has 1% thd? I dunno i believe that it's absurdly high.

[deayge]

Not the best source but

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ubwoofer-Specs

I believe there was a second thread blaming a whopping 10% thd...hard to believe especially Harmon I agree. But there is no question it is higher than thy local .01%

So do you know if 6x9 Easley fit into the stock 6x9 boxes? I'm looking at some diamond component 6x9 some component 6x8 (forget brand but specs are on par) and some jbl 6x9 all are 2 ohm as my amp is 2 ohms

[CMG]

You remove the stock component boxes and just use an adapter to go from oem holes to 6x9 holes. They are open not sealed I think only bsw had sealed 6x9 boxes. I did that and used just coaxial front 5.25 and didn't use door speakers.

[deayge]

For sure!

You make it sound like the coaxial's sounded fine? I have heard a few reports of them sounding like garbage up front? Staging, and timing may be way off. I am looking for a sort of SQ setup, not to impress judges tho. My mission is to sound like clean as good headphones at a loud(ish) volume.
I was initially thinking about using 5.25coaxals and two ways up front because one I have a decent 3" all range speaker and tweet pair w/ good mb quartz xovers that sound decent when paired.
I have been looking at some boston 5.25 components and some JBL's as well.

[tyr283]

Can confirm that coaxials sound like garbage in the kicks. If you're gonna do it, do it right and get components

[CMG]

For sure!

You make it sound like the coaxial's sounded fine? I have heard a few reports of them sounding like garbage up front? Staging, and timing may be way off. I am looking for a sort of SQ setup, not to impress judges tho. My mission is to sound like clean as good headphones at a loud(ish) volume.
I was initially thinking about using 5.25coaxals and two ways up front because one I have a decent 3" all range speaker and tweet pair w/ good mb quartz xovers that sound decent when paired.
I have been looking at some boston 5.25 components and some JBL's as well.

You're way over complicating things. You talk about judges so maybe you do want to win a competition. Staging and timing are irrelevant in a space as big as a cubic yard. Audiophile is best left to in home comfort not in a car with a ton of road noise. But I think I may be from a different generation. At home I listen to records on Technic 12s thru some big a$$ db9s. Not saying that's audiophile, but that's what music should sound like, not like good headphones. In my cars I use modern decks but strictly old school amps and speakers (Fosgate Punch, Soundstream reference, Kicker comps, etc.). You should look into quality of hardware too, most audio companies have been sold off to various corporations and are just a shell of the name, while the quality sucks. If you're into that as a hobby that's cool, but there's definitely cheaper and easier ways to do it.

[CMG]

By the aay. Does anyone know how the e36 vert antenna reception system works? For example in normal e36 there is a reception amp in c pillar and an additional wire to connect to deck. If you don't connect it you get crap reception. I now have crap reception in the vert. Is there something i can look into?

[grandparipper]

The factory stuff has the wrong impedance to mix and match with aftermarket stuff. Replace the head unit with one that has enough RCA outputs to fit what you plan to do. I like decent power and a solid sub. The last system i did was pretty simple and sounded pretty good. A relatively cheap JVC CD player running four 6.5" Blaupunkt separates. I ran a sub RCA output to a single strong sub amp that drove just one 8" sub in a decent sealed box. Normally, I run a four channel amp for the mains, plus a sub amp and sub, but the deck power seemed adequate and was much simpler.

I finally finished the custom sub box for this little car. No room anywhere easy, so I pulled out the factory HK "Subwoofer". (How can they call two 4 inch drivers a subwoofer?) I laid plastic into the area, used epoxy resin and glass cloth over that to make a removable 'box' with enough interior room to handle an 8 inch sub driver. I built it up in stages using cardboard taped together, glass cloth and some old rags epoxied into that for bulk in the side panels. I glassed the 3/4 inch MDF board onto the front and top, then covered it in carpet. Ugly underneath, decent finish work on the outside. Brings up the fullness of the music that was missing! Musical, not overpowering!
.P1010023.jpgP1010018.jpgP1010021.jpg

[CMG]

By the aay. Does anyone know how the e36 vert antenna reception system works? For example in normal e36 there is a reception amp in c pillar and an additional wire to connect to deck. If you don't connect it you get crap reception. I now have crap reception in the vert. Is there something i can look into?

Bump, anyone have info on the vert antenna system. Is it in the windshield and does it have a booster that needs to have connection to work right?