1998 E39 No Start EWS problems.

[Jayson Wonder]

Hello all. I am trying to diagnose the no start/fuel/spark problem.

I just managed to get a diagnostic cable and INPA setup on my laptop. I ranna test for errors. Not sure what exactly it all mean but here is what I get:
Initially I got these errors:
0 key number 0 not valid because of wrong identification
96 key number 6 not valid because of wrong identification
15 power on reset
99 toleration of changing code increased with key # 6
97 key number 6 not valid because of wrong password
98 key number 6 not valid because of wrong changeing code
These were after first run I cleared them and only this one returned:
98 key number 6 not valid because of wrong changeing code
I also got this error which I do not understand:
E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T------------------------------------
Date: 09/09/15 18:02:37
ECU: MS411DS2
JobStatus: OKAY
Variant: MS411DS2
------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT: 1 errors in error memory !
------------------------------------------------------------
18 EWS-Signal (DWA-Eingang) nicht vorhanden oder fehlerhaft
Error frequency : 5 Logistic counter: 40
Motordrehzahl 2944.00 1/min
Last 506.58 mg/Hub
Motortemperatur -48.00 Grad C
Drosselklappenwinkel 52.95 Grad DK
Fehler aufgetreten vor 0.20 h
Unterbrechung
Fehler nach Entprellung abgespeichert
Fehler momentan vorhanden
sporadischer Fehler
================================================== ===========
All ideas are greatly appreciated.

[dworthy]

Have you tried to clear the codes out and tried a new key? How many keys do you have?

[Jayson Wonder]

Have you tried to clear the codes out and tried a new key? How many keys do you have?

Hey,

Thanks for the quick reply. Unfortunately I only have one key . I have cleared the codes and at this point all I can see is this error code under EWS:
98 key number 6 not valid because of wrong changeing code
and this one from the main error page:
E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T------------------------------------
Date: 09/09/15 18:02:37
ECU: MS411DS2
JobStatus: OKAY
Variant: MS411DS2
------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT: 1 errors in error memory !
------------------------------------------------------------
18 EWS-Signal (DWA-Eingang) nicht vorhanden oder fehlerhaft
Error frequency : 5 Logistic counter: 40
Motordrehzahl 2944.00 1/min
Last 506.58 mg/Hub
Motortemperatur -48.00 Grad C
Drosselklappenwinkel 52.95 Grad DK
Fehler aufgetreten vor 0.20 h
Unterbrechung
Fehler nach Entprellung abgespeichert
Fehler momentan vorhanden
sporadischer Fehle

[geargrinder]

OK that's a ton of info there, yeah I am tending to thinking fx323i is right - you exceeded attempts and the key has been made invalid. He's more pro by far than I am on that stuff but I do know that you for sure can get into EWS trouble from repeated failed starts AND as well from low voltage messing around both of which you mentioned in your thread.

Not kidding or giving you a hard time but it was getting some confusion between you and the other guy in the zombie thread - can you clarify is the starter turning over or no? If no then for sure a key issue. If yes then you might have a chance at resync working. Have you done the basic EWS resync in INPA now that you have the whole setup ?

That it sees your key as 6 is interesting by the way. That's a lot of keys for their to have been made for one car - I've seen used cars that are on 3 or 4 frequently because of a couple lost or destroyed keys, but never 6...

[Jayson Wonder]

OK that's a ton of info there, yeah I am tending to thinking fx323i is right - you exceeded attempts and the key has been made invalid. He's more pro by far than I am on that stuff but I do know that you for sure can get into EWS trouble from repeated failed starts AND as well from low voltage messing around both of which you mentioned in your thread.

What you both are saying makes a lot of sense and the first run error messages support that.

Not kidding or giving you a hard time but it was getting some confusion between you and the other guy in the zombie thread - can you clarify is the starter turning over or no? If no then for sure a key issue. If yes then you might have a chance at resync working. Have you done the basic EWS resync in INPA now that you have the whole setup ?

Hey, it is all good. A separate thread makes sense and I appreciate the suggestion and I should have had slightly better forum etiquette. Regarding INPA, I just managed to get these error messages and stopped there as the syncing and writing process did not seem obvious and I did not want to screw things more. Tonight's mission is to try a resync with INPA, I did try with EWSSYNC (nice little program from gpeterson) but had no change although I am not sure if I was suppose to do some trick with keys fob and or disconnect battery or something to affect changes. Battery is fully charged and I am hoping for some success or at least progress.

That it sees your key as 6 is interesting by the way. That's a lot of keys for their to have been made for one car - I've seen used cars that are on 3 or 4 frequently because of a couple lost or destroyed keys, but never 6...

Hmmm. very possible and a possible concern if I need more keys, I do only have 1. The car was with 2 owners prior to me, so it it is possible that they went through these many keys. I will check out the keys section I spotted last night and try to capture that info also.

Thanks!

[Fx323i]

A new car came from the factory with 4 keys usually, some newer cars came with only 3. There were usually 2 remote keys, one service key and one wallet key (complete plastic key but also with a transponder inside). Other 6 keys can be ordered from the dealers for the car if the locks or units have not been replaced with junkyard ones.

The key number depends on model year and also on the numbering in certain version of INPA. Some of them count the keys with numbers 0 - 9, some of them 1 - 10. The total of 10 possible keys is done by the data contained by the EWS unit. Basically it has these information inside:
- VIN + checksum
- odometer
- password for the shadow memory in the transponder (where the rolling part of the code is stored)
- EWS parameters like part number, bus number, hardware version, date of manufacture and the manufacturer of this EWS unit (there were about 30 different manufacturers, EWS was also used in the Landrover L322, MG ZT, Rover 75, Mini One, Mini Cooper etc.)
- all the 10 keys information (key nr., solid part of the code, rolling part of the code, information if the key was ever in the ignition, and if the key is disabled or enabled)
- coding data (GM/SA/VN)
- programming date, password and sync codes with the DME/DDE along with their checksums

In our diagnostic view the most important things of EWS3 are:
- key data (password, codes and enabled/disabled state)
- sync codes

The key data (solid code and password) identifies the key. This means that every time you put a particular key in the ignition, the car knows which key it is, can use it for personalization and can handle the information if the key is enabled or not. In case you lose the key, you can disable the key (or have it disabled) with no influence on the other keys you have. When the key is identified properly and enabled, the EWS sends it a password to the shadow memory and asks for the rolling code. From this moment on, if the rolling code is correct or close in cycles to being correct, the relay in the EWS clicks and allows the starter to spin. At the same time the rolling code starts being continuously refreshed and cycled over and over and also the ISN code (the sync code - also a rolling code) is being sent to the ECU to compare. If the ISN is correct, the ignition and injection is allowed.

So, viewing the former read of the EWS faults, I can see that you have a key nr. 6 and its data is corrupted (they do not match in the EWS and in the transponder in the key).

As I wrote before in the previous thread, there are 3 possibilities to go:
1. Order a new key
If you have the key with the rubber buttons - fitted till 8/1999 - you can order a cheap ordinary key, pull the transponder out of it and replace the transponder in your remote key with the new one. BUT if your key is #6, you probably only have 3-4 keys available for ordering. Maybe less, depending on numbering of the keys in your version of EWS (0-9 or 1-10) and on if there were other keys after #6 which is not working now.
2. Order a new EWS
You can also order a new EWS unit, BUT you would get EWS4.3 which is kind of PITA in case you will have the same trouble again. You also would have to code it properly to your car, otherwise it would just turn over, but no spark and no fuel.
3. Order the AK90 EWS reader/programmer and repair the data
With this tool you can resynchronize (not a click-click solution, but I can help) the existing key and also make additional transponders for your EWS even in case when eg. all key positions were used. In that case you would need a new EWS and set of keys ordered. This tool is quite cheap on Aliexpress now and with the 0D46J MCUs in the EWS it is quite safe to read and write.

The third option gives you an almost immediate solution once you have the interface. It is more of a responsibility, but also more of the options then. Please note that you need to know what you are doing when reading/writing the EWS, otherwise it can end up erasing that whole damn thing and you would not have any other option than to order a new EWS and code it to the car or have it coded. Another solution of an erased EWS requires a solid knowledge of other stuff and other tools. There always is a way to go, but you need to have the knowledge and tools to be able to make things right when they go wrong.

If you decided to purchase the AK90 tool, check your EWS version first. If the EWS was replaced in 9/2005 or later, the car has EWS4.3 with 2L86D MCU inside which requires soldering or an EWS solderless jig, which is kind of expensive. I would love to buy one, but the company making them does not communicate with me as a locksmith somewhere in the middle Europe at all.

EDIT: IMPORTANT NOTE - the EWS sync in INPA makes a synchronization of the ISN (sync code) between the ECU and EWS. It has nothing to do with the keys and can repair nothing but a situation when the starter turns over, but the engine does not fire up due to EWS sync error.

You are getting an EWS interface error in the DME unit because you are trying to start with an improper key. Without a proper key, EWS does not send any (neither right nor wrong) signal to the DME.

EDIT2: I can see you have a MS41.1 DME based on your description. Take a look in INPA at the DME side and send me a part number of the unprogrammed ECU and if there is the ISN visible, post it, too (the screenshot would be the best). Also post your VIN because the script version tells me you have a MS41.1 ECU, which was used for a single VANOS engine. This one was fitted till 9/1998, so I expected the M52TU double VANOS engine in your car along with MS42 ECU. I have one more option in my mind, which would include a complete EWS off and could be doable with your diagnostic cable with a very little diagnostic cable modification if you are familiar with soldering and have an ON/OFF switch on hand. Do you have a round 20-pin pacman diagnostic port, or OBD2 (or both)?

[Jayson Wonder]

Fx323i, this is some great info. Totally the most in-depth and understandable summary of this situation. I first thank you for taking the time to break this down for me. I also note the options you provided and the suggestions you have offered. Appreciate this!

I will get that screen shot now as well as key nbr info. I will also be the vin for you thanks. I am prepared to do whatever is required to fix this obviously cheaper and faster is always better.

You guys are a great support. I'll report back shortly.

[bmwdirtracer]

Personally, I'd take my registration and driver's license to the dealership, and order two new keys, as per Fx323's FIRST suggestion.

[Jayson Wonder]

Personally, I'd take my registration and driver's license to the dealership, and order two new keys, as per Fx323's FIRST suggestion.

I will definitely ask them what it costs and how long it would take to get. I am going keyless after I get this EWS problem resolved but if it is my only way to get the car started I would not be opposed to a new key just for the chip but if it is more that 50-100 bucks I have to ask if it is worth it since the AK90 is around that price too it seems.

- - - Updated - - -

Here are a few of the screen captures from INPA. They seem to have the DME & VIN info you asked about also the ERROR_EWS_REJECT and general info.EWS_06b.pngEWS_07.pngEWS_08.png
Not sure if it tells anything new or not.

[Jayson Wonder]

Thought this was interesting. If I read this correctly, it seems as if the only key out of 10 that has been used it #6.
EWS_09a.pngEWS_09b.pngEWS_09c.png

[bmwdirtracer]

I will definitely ask them what it costs and how long it would take to get. I am going keyless after I get this EWS problem resolved but if it is my only way to get the car started I would not be opposed to a new key just for the chip but if it is more that 50-100 bucks I have to ask if it is worth it since the AK90 is around that price too it seems.

- - - Updated - - -

Here are a few of the screen captures from INPA. They seem to have the DME & VIN info you asked about also the ERROR_EWS_REJECT and general info.
Engine_03.pngEWS_04.pngEWS_06b.pngEWS_07.pngEWS_08.png
Not sure if it tells anything new or not.

Eh, you re-invent the wheel, if you want to, I'll take the easy and proven solution.

[Fx323i]

OK man. When I was reading the original thread, I noticed you had 1999 E39 written in your profile. Now I can see very clearly that your car is 4/1998, has M52 single VANOS engine and EWS3 in EWS2 mode. In this case, there would no pairing of EWS and DME be ever necessary, because your EWS unit has a solid ISN code. In the INPA screen with ISN number you would see the same ISN like in the DME screen if you had a proper transponder key.

As I can see, there were keys 1-4 used and then key 6 used. Seems more like the key was made by AK90 or some similar tool. Take look on the inside of the EWS unit (do not give it a shock, be grounded) and take a picture of the PCB. There are some tools that can do the job almost unnoticeably, some of them on the contrary require almost destroying the EWS. Before getting AK90 (if you desired to) it would be good to see what you are dealing with. The 4/1998 would also very probably have an older MCU inside, like 2D47J or so. This one is more protected than 0D46J and if you try to read it using an improper algorithm, it would get erased. Good thing is, that even after erasing the data, in your case you would be able to restore the data so that your car would start. Only the keys and the passwords, codes for the keys would be different, so you could not order a key at the dealer's then. With the right tool on hand, who would care if you can make an unlimited number of transponders for your key, which cost around USD 2-10 depending on the supplier.

It also is possible to make an EWS delete mod via diagnostic port. BUT then the car would not be protected at all if you plan a start button and no steering lock - the only protection would be the door lock. If you would like me to guide you through the EWS delete process, I will guide you through via PMs. The only thing you would need is some more software and a little modification of the diagnostic cable.

Do you have OBD2 only, 20-pin only, or both ports? I know that in North America is was different than in Europe, so I need to ask since I am mid-European.

[Jayson Wonder]

I am sorry I better check my profile for that typo of my car year.

Strange that it is EWS3 in EWS2 mode. If I have learned anything that means no rolling code. Is this an abnormal configuration or factory put cars out line this? Just wondered if car was tampered with.

My car has ODBII port in the driver's side under dash and a 20pin under hood. I have only connected to the 20pin thus far as I was told I needed that port to access all modules.
Picture of EWS board coming shortly.

[Jayson Wonder]

Just as a follow on question. EWS3 in EWS2 mode is a function of the DME?

[Jayson Wonder]

uploadfromtaptalk1441968802000.jpgWell here is the picture of my EWS board. It looks like it has chipset OD46J. Not sure if this has impacts on my options as previously discussed.

At this point I am leaning towards the option of EWS delete to enable me to get the car running again now. Longer term I would consider buying a used EWS, DME, Key and lock set restoring all security at a later date. I think I will still buy an AK90+ at some point cause it looks like an awesome tool.

So if I there is nothing else I can do to manipulate the car to start with what I have now, I am ready to prepare the EWS delete. Your help will be appreciated.

[Jayson Wonder]

Eh, you re-invent the wheel, if you want to, I'll take the easy and proven solution.

Dealer wants 90 bucks for a valet key and 125 for a universal key with no remote buttons. Takes a week to order. I would prob take the AK90+ and keys from eBay in same time and costs. I think I bit by the DIY bug.

[Fx323i]

Jayson, send me your e-mail address via PM, I will guide you through.

At first, you need to make a little modification to your 20-pin plug. Inside of it you need to connect pin 14 (power) or 16 (ACC - ignition switch power) with pin 18 (programming voltage) through an on/off switch. To read and diagnose, you will use it with state OFF (no power to pin 18). When programming (to force the data to write into the ECU) you will use it with ON state (+12V on programming pin).

Also, you need to make sure the battery in the car is good and the best would be if you can have it on a charger.

For the security reasons, I would renew the EWS to make it work ASAP. MCU type 0D46J is sort of the easiest to handle, so if I were you, I would go and buy the AK90 and resolve the original key with it. It also gives you a possibility to programme new keys (even the used positions) simply with PCF7935AS transponders, which are easy to get. Keys are also easily obtainable. The main problem could be cutting them because the HU58 keys are kind of PITA to cut on conventional cutting machines. I always cut them on a CNC machine now.

If you go to the dealer, you only can order 3 keys (positions 1-7 are used, so there are only positions 8-10 left). After you lose all of them, you would have to buy a new EWS and a set of keys (quite a lot of bucks to spend) or a set of junkyard units with keys. There always is a BUT. If you go and take the junkyard units, you need to buy the 3/97-9/98 version of both ECU and EWS unit. If you lose the key, you can not order it at the dealer's.

[geargrinder]

I am just getting the point about you wanting to (ahem ricer) go keyless or pushbutton start or whatever it is and that's how this mess started.

Given that then your only smart way forward is to EWS delete as fx says. It will be a security thing as he says. The other method you often see with remote-starter installs involves awful stuff like ziptying an antenna ring up under the dash with the key permanently ziptied in it - and not sure about your car exactly but I know for a fact that with the later 540's the GM doesn't like that and won't let you lock the whole car / arm the alarm while it still thinks a key is in the ignition so you then have to do more and more modding to get that to cooperate... So...

Definitely delete the EWS and be done with it. I cannot possibly see the effort-benefit for all the pain of a keyless/pushbutton install setup myself but if you're committed to that road, the EWS delete is what you need.

[Fx323i]

There always are options. I would never sacrifice the immo myself, but now the main thing is getting the car back to the road. If Jayson is able to make the modification to the cable, it will be a 30 minutes job after my advices, I believe.

If I did this modification, I would go for this setup:
I would keep the EWS antenna where it is, splice the wires and use a two-way relay. One way towards the EWS antenna and the second one to the immo bypass box which would contain just the transponder. This relay should be driveable by the alarm system. When opened by a fob, the relay would click and use the transponder in the bypass box. When not opened by a fob, the connection to the bypass would be closed and the only used coil would be the one in the steering column. This is also how the better remote start alarm systems are handled. Security first...

I feel the same like geargrinder about this start button modification, but I need to say - it is your car, do whatever you like with it. The E39 is not that rare nowadays to consider it a youngtimer.

Also, about Jayson's other questions: The DME MS41 and its modifications (MS41.0, MS41.1, MS41.2) was not only used in E39, but also in E38, E36 and Z3. The E36 and Z3 never had EWS3, this is why they kept the EWS2 system in it, so that they would not have to make another type of ECU and immo management when M52TU with MS42 ECU was planned. This is a function, not a fault.

[geargrinder]

Interesting - i have near zero knowledge (and interest) in remote-starter systems, that makes a ton of sense. Let the system shunt the bypass key in/out but leave the OEM system 100% in place at same time.

[Fx323i]

Yup, security first. Just add enough trouble to the thief to make him try to steal your car too long. I need to say that any secret switch for the starter and a fuel pump does maybe a better job than any factory system which is well documented.

And additionally - I would never put the whole key into the bypass module. The lock is another (mechanical) security system.

Also, the EWS itself can save you loads of work with the automatic start or start button, because it catches the speed signal and when the engine is running, it cuts the starter off regardless on the input starting signal. A good thing to consider.

One more thing about the EWS/ECU/keys set from junkyard. Everything is fine until you try to recode any unit to its factory settings. You also need to watch the version of the units and if it came with a manual or automatic transmission (the input signals are different for EWS - obviously the gear switch or clutch switch, and also the ECU software for automatic and manual transmission is obviously different). The EWS is one of the main backup units for the coding data and equipment. The diagnostic system looks in the EWS ZCS data to know which units and equipment parts are fitted in the car!!! The EWS can be recoded, but these tiny little things can be a PITA in case when eg. replacement cluster is fitted, too. Then there is nowhere to look for the ZCS data and you need to generate it yourself, which can be hours of work and headache. Everything is doable with these cars, in fact BMWs are sort of LEGO. But you really need to know what you are doing, otherwise you also could cause yourself much of trouble.

For example, when you try to code the EWS in a way that it would get from EWS2 to EWS3 mode, there is no way of rolling it back than to read it on table and modify the MCU data. It can be coded from EWS2 to EWS3 mode, but not backwards!

[Jayson Wonder]

Lots of good points here and tons of info to digest. Starting a new thread was a great idea.

Once EWS delete is complete I will order AK90+ and repair existing key. It is only the transponder I want anyway. I will once again use the EWS and a bypass module (transponder only in box) which will be triggered off the keyless push to start which uses RFID card/FOB's for secure access. It is more work but will preserve the factory immobilization.

Again, only reason I am doing this is because I am currently starting my car (or attempting to) like this..


Because of this...

In hindsight it would have been cheaper and shorter to replace the broken ignition lock cylinder and broken steering column lock assembly but hey I am learning so much and in a sick way having fun. Had this had been my daily driver, the stealer would have all my money now.

[dworthy]

And here I thought I knew something about the EWS, come to find out it was about 10% of this thread.

[Fx323i]

Jayson, I am just wondering... with the ignition switch disassembled, can you turn the key in the lock?

[geargrinder]

Lots of good points here and tons of info to digest. Starting a new thread was a great idea.

LOL Excellent. You are now master of your domain.

Sounds like good plan. Interim it so you can drive yer damn car then work up your final solution that keeps the anti-stealy features. .