Why is so much hate on automatic cars in this section?

[illiano]

Automatic for pansy. Manual for hombre

Come at meh, I'm totally cereal

[thatonedood]

I don't understand your decision to take personal offense to people disliking automatic transmissions.

It'd be like me taking offense to you not like tuna sandwiches if you didn't like tuna.

Wait wait wait wait WAIT! Doe's the sandwich have a manual transmission?

[Sam Son]

the autos these cars are saddled with are sluggish and boring.

[BMWM5E34]

E34s were sold in far greater numbers with automatics(in the USA at least)but there is a vastly different owner demographic twenty years later. There are a lot of guys who think the E34 is a sports car, never mind that they serve as taxis in their homeland.

Those who bash automatics or those who drive them haven't spent enough time slogging through big city traffic, in a snowstorm. If all my driving were for pleasure, on interesting roads, I'd never own an automatic. An automatic comes in very handy in my world often enough. I vacillate between wanting manual and automatic. Usually after slogging through some winter heavy traffic with a manual I'm ready for another autobox.

Very interesting point, that might be the key. The majority of current E34 owners aren't the same kind of people that would've bought the car new back in the day, wich leads to misunderstandings regarding the real E34's nature.

The E34 is not by any means a sports car; I've also observed that some people believe that.
It is a luxury sedan with a little sporty touch for its class, but it is what it is.

For driving on exciting curvy roads the E34 isn't the best choice anyway. I would fully understand this anti-automatic trend in the Z3 section, but not in the E34 5 Series one.

[ericsyzf]

I own a 540i/6 and a 540ia. I like them both for different reasons. The 5HP30 is a great transmission and works very well if maintained. I think the auto is pretty fast especially in S4, but the 6spd will always be more fun. Taking away the fun factor I think the biggest drawback of the auto is the cost to fix.

[S61Dan]

I don't understand your decision to take personal offense to people disliking automatic transmissions.

It'd be like me taking offense to you not like tuna sandwiches if you didn't like tuna.

[E28E34]

OP: I give you a lot of credit for writing what you have. People trash automatics in BMWs for many years. Understandably, this is an BMW-enthusiast site, and typically BMW-car enthusiasts prefer manuals. I'd love a nice E34 M5 or 540i 6-spd. But unfortunately, not all of us are so lucky. Some of us, don't have time to wait for several months to find the perfect manual car in good shape. In my case, the condition of the vehicle, how it was maintained is crucial and primary over the transmission type. I could only find 1 `84 533i auto. that met this criteria. I wanted a 5-spd. - but couldn't find one. Same with the E34. The ZF in the 533i was problematic, even with maintenance - whereas the GM auto in the E34 has been much better. Automatics are a bit of a gamble, with their 'hocus-pocus' attributes as one journalist put. "If you look at an automatic the wrong way it can fail." Have also heard from the same individual, "the automatic is there to serve you, drive it as you wish" (selecting a lower gear and driving it spiritedly at high revs). All of our BMWs have been automatics... a `84 533i, `93 525i, and a `72 2002... God forbid yes, that was an auto too! And as ross1 put so nicely, a lot of it has to do with where you drive and your lifestyle. And sometimes it's just the way it works out. You find a really nice example and it's an auto. You enjoy it as the OP said, and enjoy the positives. Like anything, there are pros and cons. But I agree, it's a shame people trash them so much. I've opened my cars at shows, and some will say, "it's an automatic?!" in a disappointed tone. Yeah, it happens sometimes. But when you have only one car, and are in more stop and go traffic than you'd like, an auto is nice. It's so funny, because nowadays getting a manual in a new car, or just seeing or hearing someone driving one on the road (in the US) is rare. BMW and VW and a few others, proudly advertised if the car was fitted with a automatic back in the 60s and 70s. They fitted a script badge "automatic" - It was partly to gain sales by letting others know, yeah, it's a compact/sports car, and you can get one in an auto! Wow! The 2002 and the `75-`76 E12 530i are the only US-spec BMWs that I've seen. My father had a `81 320i and purposely chose an auto as a LA traffic was too bad. Heck, one of the members from Green Day converted a 2002 into a automatic due to LA traffic! Oh the horror! And on the flip side, it's my understanding converting an auto to a manual is no simple or cheap task. One day, I'll own a manual. But in the meantime I am enjoying my automatic for what it's worth and so are a good deal of others.

[BMWM5E34]

Automatic for pansy. Manual for hombre

Come at meh, I'm totally cereal

Those are childish arguments.

To keep in tune with your stupidity, I will say that feeling the need to hold and operate a lever with your right hand while driving is pretty homo.

According to your "logic" the Mercedes C63 AMG is for pussies while the stunning Peugeot 206 1.6 HDI is for real machos. lol. Very funny.

the autos these cars are saddled with are sluggish and boring.

No, they're not. In fact the transmissions in these cars are some of the best ZF had to offer at that time.

Of course a modern ZF 8HP is better, but then, the whole F10 5 Series that equips it is better aswell.
There's no point comparing old vs. new.

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I own a 540i/6 and a 540ia. I like them both for different reasons. The 5HP30 is a great transmission and works very well if maintained. I think the auto is pretty fast especially in S4, but the 6spd will always be more fun. Taking away the fun factor I think the biggest drawback of the auto is the cost to fix.

Very reasonable. You can enjoy the same car in two different ways.

Having and enjoying both types of transmissions takes away lots of absurd prejudgments.

[illiano]

Those are childish arguments. To keep in tune with your stupidity, I will say that feeling the need to hold and operate a lever with your right hand while driving is pretty homo. According to your "logic" the Mercedes C63 AMG is for pussies while the stunning Peugeot 206 1.6 HDI is for real machos. lol. Very funny. No, they're not. In fact the transmissions in these cars are some of the best ZF had to offer at that time. Of course a modern ZF 8HP is better, but then, the whole F10 5 Series that equips it is better aswell. There's no point comparing old vs. new.

Congratulations, facetious/sarcastic understanding is not your forté

[S61Dan]

tldr
Op makes thread and gets upset when people disagree with him.

[BMWM5E34]

OP: I give you a lot of credit for writing what you have. People trash automatics in BMWs for many years. Understandably, this is an BMW-enthusiast site, and typically BMW-car enthusiasts prefer manuals. I'd love a nice E34 M5 or 540i 6-spd. But unfortunately, not all of us are so lucky. Some of us, don't have time to wait for several months to find the perfect manual car in good shape. In my case, the condition of the vehicle, how it was maintained is crucial and primary over the transmission type. I could only find 1 `84 533i auto. that met this criteria. I wanted a 5-spd. - but couldn't find one. Same with the E34. The ZF in the 533i was problematic, even with maintenance - whereas the GM auto in the E34 has been much better. Automatics are a bit of a gamble, with their 'hocus-pocus' attributes as one journalist put. "If you look at an automatic the wrong way it can fail." Have also heard from the same individual, "the automatic is there to serve you, drive it as you wish" (selecting a lower gear and driving it spiritedly at high revs). All of our BMWs have been automatics... a `84 533i, `93 525i, and a `72 2002... God forbid yes, that was an auto too! And as ross1 put so nicely, a lot of it has to do with where you drive and your lifestyle. And sometimes it's just the way it works out. You find a really nice example and it's an auto. You enjoy it as the OP said, and enjoy the positives. Like anything, there are pros and cons. But I agree, it's a shame people trash them so much. I've opened my cars at shows, and some will say, "it's an automatic?!" in a disappointed tone. Yeah, it happens sometimes. But when you have only one car, and are in more stop and go traffic than you'd like, an auto is nice. It's so funny, because nowadays getting a manual in a new car, or just seeing or hearing someone driving one on the road (in the US) is rare. BMW and VW and a few others, proudly advertised if the car was fitted with a automatic back in the 60s and 70s. They fitted a script badge "automatic" - It was partly to gain sales by letting others know, yeah, it's a compact/sports car, and you can get one in an auto! Wow! The 2002 and the `75-`76 E12 530i are the only US-spec BMWs that I've seen. My father had a `81 320i and purposely chose an auto as a LA traffic was too bad. Heck, one of the members from Green Day converted a 2002 into a automatic due to LA traffic! Oh the horror! And on the flip side, it's my understanding converting an auto to a manual is no simple or cheap task. One day, I'll own a manual. But in the meantime I am enjoying my automatic for what it's worth and so are a good deal of others.

Thank you. I totally agree, sometimes the transmission isn't the priority and sometimes having an auto is the most convenient thing to do, even if you like the manual driving experience aswell.

Oh yeah, I remember those old 60s and 70s cars with the word AUTOMATIC sitting proudly on the bootlid. This was also a Mercedes' thing, along with some others.

The French cars also loved to advertise things like "5 Speeds!!", "16 valves!! or "ABS!!" by writting them on the bootlid. Pretty funny from today's point of view.

Congratulations, facetious/sarcastic understanding is not your forté

Sorry, but perceiving the sarcastic sense can be pretty hard in a written form.

To be honest, your previous comment was very clichéd and silly, so probably I should've guessed it better. Maybe it isn't. LOL.

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tldr
Op makes thread and gets upset when people disagree with him.

No, I don't. It's okay if you don't like automatics, but things like: "Automatics are for sissies, real men use three pedals." are just full stupidity.

[S61Dan]

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No, I don't. It's okay if you don't like automatics, but things like: "Automatics are for sissies, real men use three pedals." are just full stupidity.

I like both to be honest. I HAVE both. Like I said before it's personal preferance. To each his own.

[BMWM5E34]

I like both to be honest. I HAVE both. Like I said before it's personal preferance. To each his own.

Then we agree.

[priler]

none of you have given the correct answer so far.

there're 2 main reasons for the bashing and overall negativity on/for autos here.

the first is called The Mob Mentality. this is a strange and sometimes weird fact that tends to happen in all forums. it doesn't matter if it's a gun forum or a car one. this can be so strong that sometimes even those who are neutral on the subject or actually have a counter opinion will generally keep quite on the matter.


the second reason is BMW's fault. it comes from that "lifetime fill" stupidity. every owner who just bought an auto is always worried about a failure. this put even more pressure or hatred on the autos.



i'll remind you all that,at the time,only Porsche had a comparable auto worthy of putting in any car that had any kind of sportiness. you guys do understand how the 5HP30 works and what it does,right? for comparison,the MB auto of this same time period,although very reliable,was a clunky POS and it never changed it's nature. if you were taking a corner aggressively,your practically guaranteed to be in the wrong gear,including when accelerating out of a corner,unless you shifted yourself and even then,it sucks for that.


ever heard a 540iA throw a bunch of downshift when coming from a pretty fast pace to a complete stop and the revs blipping up like it thought it was a manual? sometimes even manual guys will just coast and not downshift constantly.


yeah,it's not the same but it's not bad (or the worst out there) either.

[XCRN]

I will enjoy any car with a manual, I will only enjoy a select few cars with and automatic.

[gtopaul]

Very interesting point, that might be the key. The majority of current E34 owners aren't the same kind of people that would've bought the car new back in the day, which leads to misunderstandings regarding the real E34's nature.

Pretty much true. I worked at a BMW dealership for 14 years and the two things they couldn't sell were wagons and stick shifts. Nobody wanted them. Put them in the loaner fleet and nobody wanted to drive them. Always sold heavily discounted.

[5mall5nail5]

The autos in these cars are unreliable. They can't handle any additional torque than they handle from the factory, and they die even under those conditions. That, and if you're trying to accelerate through a corner and hang in 2nd gear but the trans shifts into third for you... so you floor it to downshift, and it doesn't, or maybe it does... or maybe it doesn't... or maybe it does....

Its not very fun. I don't really care what anyone else drives but I can't see a GM 4 spd being fun in a tossable car. I have friends with built autos in supras and other fast cars and its not very fun in those either.

[bagekko]

Out of the 10 BMWs I have owned 3 have been automatics, the X3 and X5 there is no choice, that leaves 1 of 8 and it was my first E34 a 95 530i. I learned on a manual, my first 2 cars were manual. Of the 16 cars I have owned 5 have been autos, and only 3 of them were by choice.

I actually liked my M60 530i auto, it was a decent automatic, just a little lag when putting the pedal to the metal. Zero problems in 225k miles. I wouldn't say I hate autos, I just like shifting and control. Though driving my E60 M5 6 speed in rush hour stop and go traffic is very tiring. Luckily I am not in that type of traffic often.

I drove all the new Ms at the BMW Performance Center which all had DCT. I was never a SMG fan because of reliability, but I would definitely pick DCT when getting a new M.

[E34prease]

I will enjoy any car with a manual, I will only enjoy a select few cars with and automatic.

This is the most logical thing I've read this whole thread, except I would add a very in front of select. The only place I would prefer an auto would if it was competition based and I needed every single millisecond I could get. Even then I'd be wishing it was a manual. I realize these auto trans in e34s don't shift very fast and thus, for me, there is no point for them. I hear the traffic explanation a lot and I daily drive a 530i/5 in Chicago and I really don't see it as an issue, more as an excuse. Even in bumper to bumper Id rather just pop it in neutral and relax than to sit on the brakes. I picked up a 525ia for cheap and drove that around a bit but could not get myself to keep driving it, even though it was in much better condition.

[M540fella]

I own a 540i/6 and a 540ia. I like them both for different reasons. The 5HP30 is a great transmission and works very well if maintained. I think the auto is pretty fast especially in S4, but the 6spd will always be more fun. Taking away the fun factor I think the biggest drawback of the auto is the cost to fix.

I do as well. I purchased msport 540ia first because I couldn't drive a stick and fell in love with the e34 design. I had always driven autos, and the 5hp30 is one of the best autos I had ever driven. I have lots of friends that think it's a relatively fast/fun car.I have a blast around our mountain roads. The trans was already rebuilt once,by the po, but that was at 155k. It was rather expensive.
I bought my 540i/6 to swap transmissions with the auto but after teaching myself to drive it I changed my mind. I have decided to keep it for now, but if the msport auto does go out again I have it waiting.
I will agree that everyone should learn how to drive a manual. It's a good thing to know, and does make you more engaged in what you're doing. However manuals are going the way of the dinosaur , so it's really a skill that won't be as needed as in the past.

[E39540V8]

I have a 540A, BMW don't have any factory manual 540's in Australia. I love it in peak hour traffic. I have to say though it is a great auto, compared to the GM 4 speed auto in my old car, it is awesome. As a daily commuter in the city, auto with steptronic is pretty darn good.

E39540v8

[stoney85]

In fact the transmissions in these cars are some of the best ZF had to offer at that time.

Of course a modern ZF 8HP is better, but then, the whole F10 5 Series that equips it is better aswell.
There's no point comparing old vs. new.

This is the exact reason why we dislike the auto's, its plainly obvious, most people have driven newer model cars with automatics that are modern, getting back into an E34 you realise that the car is at least 20 years old now, and the auto is average.

A manual gearbox for that matter gives some good feedback when having a spirited drive, really makes you feel in control of the driving style and more.

Also, and this is the main reason we prefer manuals, is because we are enthusiasts, as stated, these were just a car people used initially as work cars, family duties, etc, purchased by the everyday person. Now 20 years on and they are affordable to everyone, yet the reason we are on the forum is because we have a desire to learn more about the car, to share our experiences and what not. Those who prefer autos also generally aren't the ones who frequent a forum website.

I have an auto in my E34 540i, would much prefer a manual, 6 speed manual conversion will give me better hwy fuel economy, increase the power from not having an auto/torque convertor, allow me to really enjoy the occasion spirited drive whiles being in control, no undesired gear change mid corner, controlled engine braking, much better resale.

Here in aus, there was 70 E34 540i/6 sold, and when one does come up for sale, the lowest ive seen is 10k and it was rough, theres one for $15k, but i think he's off with the fairies smoking something if he expects that price. but you can pick up an Auto 540i for $4-6k, I got mine for $2k, but it needed some work to be reliable.

Guess what the only thing left that i don't feel confident about is? yep, the auto, it's due for another oil flush, but rarely on cold mornings, it plays up, slips/bangs into gear, not really confidence inspiring.

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I have a 540A, BMW don't have any factory manual 540's in Australia. I love it in peak hour traffic. I have to say though it is a great auto, compared to the GM 4 speed auto in my old car, it is awesome. As a daily commuter in the city, auto with steptronic is pretty darn good.

E39540v8

Actually, they do.
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...D-587706/?Cr=1

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/kensi...er-/1087030697

[Redfive]

I want to point out, that if it wasn't for the US market, the current M cars would not have an optional manual gearbox. BMW discovered that they can't sell those cars in this market without that option. Sadly, few actually take the option, but atleast there are some who do.
Europeans like manuals in their low powered commuters and the flappy paddles for their sports cars.
Americans like autos in everything except for their sports cars.
That being said I've never owned an automatic BMW. Anything automatic before 2006 is garbage in my book. That's when they started getting decent autos. I have no complaints with the current 8 speed.

[zubbie]

Unlike the original owners of our cars most of us enjoy the E34 because it's a "drivers car". I.E. you feel connected to the experience.

The autos of that era (and the steering box for that matter) diminish that experience imo. Like having ankle weights on while running.

oh and did someone say they crap out often?

[Bimmerick]

Being this an American forum and being the USA the country that not only invented the automatic gearbox in the first place...

America is also still "the land of the free....", a country that places a high value on individual freedoms and liberty. With a manual transmission, the driver has the freedom to choose what gear the car is in.

The driver of a car with a manual transmission is in control. This driver is not interested in letting "the man", the establishment, a committee, the government, a dictator, or some ZF engineer decide what gear he or she will drive in. This driver has freedom to choose...

Of course this driver is also free to choose an automatic, but anyway...

The M5 is the only model that needs the manual...

Interesting that you use the word "needs". Individual freedoms are not about "needs"...

Maybe these words popularized by Karl Marx sound familiar: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

What about these words: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

You see friend here in America our forefathers fought for my God given right to drive a car with a manual transmission, my right to decide for myself what gear I choose to be in. It has nothing to do with "needs".

Where does all this manual fanatism come from?

Maybe this is because in the US manuals are so rare and driving one makes you stand out of the crowd, so petrolheads seem to prefer them over the automatic somehow feeling more in tune with their passion this way.

Let's discuss in a friendly manner.

You insult freedom loving Americans by suggesting that we are "fanatics", are only interested in self-attention; you call us "petrolheads", and then you say "let's discuss in a friendly manner (with a thumbs up smiley face)"...???

DON'T TREAD ON ME...