Time for an Upgrade...finally!

[Butters Stoch]

Really? Anyway I don't think your 6466 is going to fail on you. Solid turbo with ample amount of oil.

If I expect it, then I won't be disappointed. Personally I think it's a great turbo. Really nice match for a 3.2 street car. I'm really not worried.

[E36 HateR]

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[JuCo]

OK, So I talked with a few shops and I'm really liking the billet 6766, does anyone know if there are any fitment issues with this setup on a bottom mount SPA?

[chikinhed]

OK, So I talked with a few shops and I'm really liking the billet 6766, does anyone know if there are any fitment issues with this setup on a bottom mount SPA?

POW-AH!

Sent from my GTX3582R

[vollosso]

OK, So I talked with a few shops and I'm really liking the billet 6766, does anyone know if there are any fitment issues with this setup on a bottom mount SPA?

New spa or the old spa?

I would be afraid of that manifold kinda choking that big turbo.

[JuCo]

Pretty sure it's the older T4 version, but here is a pic. Anyone have a bottom mount 6766? I'm not worried about the turbo choking, what would lead you to believe it would?

20151013_224632.jpg

[E36 HateR]

I'm pretty sure a local friend of mine has a 6766 on a spa bottom mount, I can try to find out.

[JuCo]

I'm pretty sure a local friend of mine has a 6766 on a spa bottom mount, I can try to find out.

Ya bro, please do, the sooner I know the sooner i'll order this bad boy and get this show on the road!

[vollosso]

Yeah ill get you a good explanation with some data once im back at the laptop

[milKt]

I'm not worried about the turbo choking, what would lead you to believe it would?

He was referring to the manifold choking your turbo.
It may be that SPA's second run of T4 units were using OLD T3 tooling
Mike R explained it well last week.

"Is this an early SPA T3 header, or is this a later "T3" that is actually the same T4/T3 casting with a T3 bolt pattern? If it is the latter, I am not surprised you are getting knock/turbulence at 500whp. If the turbo inlet forms a ledge where it bolts to the header it can cause all sorts of hell above a certain power level."

[JuCo]

He was referring to the manifold choking your turbo.
It may be that SPA's second run of T4 units were using OLD T3 tooling
Mike R explained it well last week.

"Is this an early SPA T3 header, or is this a later "T3" that is actually the same T4/T3 casting with a T3 bolt pattern? If it is the latter, I am not surprised you are getting knock/turbulence at 500whp. If the turbo inlet forms a ledge where it bolts to the header it can cause all sorts of hell above a certain power level."

ahh, makes sense i'd think that it has to flow better than my current T3 TT manifold. I've included some pics, I bought it from another user on the forum. As for the ledge I believe mine does have it. Could you link me to the other thread?

20151014_210827_resized.jpg20151014_210832_resized.jpg20151014_210838_resized.jpg20151014_210843_resized.jpg

[chikinhed]

That mani is begging for some die grinder lovin'. And yes, the TT manifold becomes a restriction above 500 whp per Nick.

Sent from my GTX3582R

[milKt]

ahh, makes sense i'd think that it has to flow better than my current T3 TT manifold. I've included some pics, I bought it from another user on the forum. As for the ledge I believe mine does have it. Could you link me to the other thread?

Here's the thread where a few sincere people with well-intentioned torches
were following Mike at TRM about the ghost in this customer's system.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...t4+restriction

4th page, post 93
is when Mike locates the problem

Ill customer
frustrated shop

Get the better built SPA and you can boost to the stars.

[vollosso]

I just havnt had time this week for much, but here is why i wouldnt run a spa with that turbo:

Forum Username: Litemup
Chassis Code: e39
Engine: S52, 87mm Cp/eagles, SS Oringed, +1mm intake valves, S52 cams
FI Type / Size: Turbo - PT6266 CEA, T3 .82 a/r
Engine Displacement: 3.2L
Compression Ratio: 8.5:1
Fuel Type: 100 octane
Manifold Pressure: 35psi
WHP: 813
WTQ: 819

- - - Updated - - -

That graph clearly shows that a spa will choke a 6266.

2nd build

Forum Username: NY98M3
Chassis Code: E36 M3
Engine: S52
FI Type / Size: Precision 6466 w/AR Designs Twin Scroll Manifold
Engine Displacement: 3.2
Compression Ratio: 8.5:1
Fuel Type: E85
Manifold Pressure: 29psi
WHP: 834 - Maxpsi Super Flow
WTQ: 691 - Maxpsi Super Flow

Build Thread:http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...win-Scroll-E85

This is what a curve with a proper manifold/exhaust wheel size should look like.

[e30kid89]

I dunno man, I think that 6266 on litemup's car isn't the best example....that turbo was pushed passed its limit by far.

[Butters Stoch]

I dunno man, I think that 6266 on litemup's car isn't the best example....that turbo was pushed passed its limit by far.

Agree, this is more of an equal comparison. Mcoupmindy. Spa t3.

[milKt]

- Updated - - -

That graph clearly shows that a spa will choke a 6266.
.

Two different dynos are not going to show peak torque and power drop off up top the same.

Sure a tubular will flow better
and that SPA looks to be doin' some work.

[vollosso]

I dunno man, I think that 6266 on litemup's car isn't the best example....that turbo was pushed passed its limit by far.

eh i disagree, its a good example of choke, And it will have the same exhaust wheel which is the reason for choke which is the reason for the shape of the curve. I guarantee you if litemup put a proper manifold he would have seen nice gains and probably have saved his turbo from death.

A cast t3 and a 900hp turbo just dont go together.. it will choke and make low hp numbers relative to the tq its laying down.

I think if you're set on running this manifold you dont need to run such a big turbo, you wont be gaining much. You will lose some spool because of inertia, and you will still choke where the turbo should be shining.

SO IMO, decide on either the big power turbo and buy the right manifold OR buy a proper sized turbo for that manifold. If you dont you will be giving up more than you're gaining.

This is what gets talked about all the time [or more like hinted at by most], DEF likes to talk about it. Its sizing components to go together. IF you have mismatched components you will gain little to none of the benefits from either.. they basically cancel each other out.

- - - Updated - - -

@ butters post
Yeah look guys, Everyone that pushes the spa gains little hp per tq gained.

[GG///M3]

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[vollosso]

^eeek 12.81??


I dont think there will be ANYTHING to be gained from 6766 over a 6266 on a spa manifold. mmmmkay?

[GG///M3]

^eeek 12.81??


I dont think there will be ANYTHING to be gained from 6766 over a 6266 on a spa manifold. mmmmkay?

Those afr readings were off 12.81 was more like 12.0, and that wasn't under full boosts. Full boost about 11.6 afr.

[chikinhed]

GG, could you email me that Winpep file so that I can play around with the scaling. The numbers are great but the presentation is horrible.

Sent from my GTX3582R

[GG///M3]

GG, could you email me that Winpep file so that I can play around with the scaling. The numbers are great but the presentation is horrible.

Sent from my GTX3582R

I'll have to search and see if I ever got them from ICS. Jordan may have them. I'll find out send them to you.

[milKt]

The SPA is just fine

but not the OP's.

[RobertFontaine]

550-600whp out of the car with pump gas

The inevitable bench racing has begun...

I remember how generally happy Philip was with his GT3582R on the street in all conditions and the arrival of the GTX4088R.
It was very exciting Philip upgraded and headed for the track and started blowing up his drive train. Everyone was happy.

But as age and time settles in it seems the GTX4088 wasn't the unicorn horn elixir that we had hoped. Maybe a magic T4, tubular, split, polished steedspeed turbo manifold will make the magic ponies appear down low.

Our little truck engines just don't spin very fast but they have an extremely usable power band. The magic harmonic balancer didn't let us shift at 8k and there just isn't that much that needs balancing in the assembly.

The fully streetable, low lag, 600+ HP e36 3.2l still hasn't appeared. 500hp with 500 foot pounds of torque however is an awful lot of car for just about anyone. It wasn't that long ago when those kind of numbers on a Dodge Viper with a v10 truck engine were considered insane. The other thing is that this is a formula that can be put together that can actually hold together with only a reasonable maintenance schedule and very little engine investment.


So since the GTX4088R turned up a few years ago has there been anything new that might provide quicker spool up between shifts and in low boost that will let us run on pump gas (93) with nothing more than a little water/methonal for track days?