Ground Control Coilovers/front springs creaking

[BMWManiac]

Nope, using stock, newly installed strut bearings

[SkiFree]

So what your saying is that you now have figured out that the noise you were first hearing is NOT actually related to the GC camber plates?


Well ...... are you running any spring pads? Have you compared your stack assembly with the bmw diagram?

[BMWManiac]

I never said I had camber plates, and stated a couple times that I have stock strut bearings. After 144k miles and 18 years, I thought the bearings were the culprit. I have not had a chance to do some serious investigation but I did have someone turn the wheel left to right and the noise is definitely coming from the springs

[Brown9348]

bump.
I'm having a similar creaking noise at low speed turning only. I have gc street plates, the car is only about 1" lower all around.
New control arms, swaybar links, tie-rods, and the coilovers are brand new.

Im wondering if you found any solution or if your still having the noise? and if the noise has been there from the beginning.

[SLA]

I always had noise on tight turns at low speeds. I sourced the pieces I need for a Koyo Torrington bearing kit off of Amazon and saved about half of what one of the major Bimmer retailers wants for them. No more noise. The bearings will need to be cleaned and regreased from time to time depending on driving habits.

[Brown9348]

^thanks, Yeah it looks like thats really going to be the only solution. I'm going to try to raise the perch slightly to see if that gives it enough preload to stop the spring from binding. All things considered, if it weren't for this noise, these would be worth the money they charge. They ride great. If i can get rid of the noise, i will have nothing bad to say about them at all.

[pbonsalb]

I always had noise on tight turns at low speeds. I sourced the pieces I need for a Koyo Torrington bearing kit off of Amazon and saved about half of what one of the major Bimmer retailers wants for them. No more noise. The bearings will need to be cleaned and regreased from time to time depending on driving habits.

Will you share with us the pieces you need? I have thought about buying a set of torrington bearings.

[Brown9348]

^yeah, that'd be appreciated.
--Ride height doesnt make a difference, noise is still there. I might look into these bearings more..
How hard is it to get the top nut off of these by the way? It was a big headache to take the original struts apart without an impact.

[pbonsalb]

^yeah, that'd be appreciated.
--Ride height doesnt make a difference, noise is still there. I might look into these bearings more..
How hard is it to get the top nut off of these by the way? It was a big headache to take the original struts apart without an impact.

Go through socket helps since you can put hex key through top of ratchet and socket. Lowes sells kobalt brand kit. I forget top nut mm. Buying an 18V impact makes life easier. Ryobi, kobalt, craftsman are all inexpensive. Milwaukee, dewalt are good. Snapon, ingersoll rand, matco are mechanic grade. I have mileaukee.

[Brown9348]

I actually have the kobalt set, and yeah they do work well. The rackets are terrible, as in, they constantly switch back and forth between on/off on their own. But you can just put a 19mm box end on the back of all sockets.

But unfortunately, there isnt a hex key on the top of these. Although now that i think about, there is a spot that looks like you could get a socket onto, maybe thats how you counter hold it? Im not really very familiar with koni adjustables.

[pbonsalb]

But unfortunately, there isnt a hex key on the top of these. Although now that i think about, there is a spot that looks like you could get a socket onto, maybe thats how you counter hold it? .

Its been 10 years since I had stock. Normally there is a hex key or wrenchable top -- there has to be in order to properly install. Yours may be rounded off. Might need vise grips.

[Brown9348]

Its been 10 years since I had stock. Normally there is a hex key or wrenchable top -- there has to be in order to properly install. Yours may be rounded off. Might need vise grips.

They come assembled already, i'm much more familiar with stock suspensions, typically ive seen an allen on top. This is slightly different but I do see how it comes apart now. I think its time i got an impact though.

[SLA]

For reference only, and I'd recommend 4 washers of the same size. : http://www.amazon.com/Koyo-NTA-3648-...roller+bearing

Make sure you order the correct size bearing to match your spring perch. You don't want extra slop or something that is too small. Spring diameter should correspond with the inner diameter of the correct bearing to order, considering you are using the right size spring for your perch.

[Brown9348]

Just wanted to update really quick. I still have the noise but GC is working with me to figure out where it may be coming from. So, although I have brand new swaybar endlinks, I'm going to disconnect them to make sure it's not coming from that ASAP. Good on them though for trying to help me figure out what's wrong. Their customer service has been great, something I really appreciate. Hopefully it's not the coilovers, because they are definitely even better than I was expecting them to be. And I don't think it's the camber plates making the noise either.

[jakermac]

Does anyone know the exact size of the Torrington/thrust bearings in the Ground Control E36 Race camber/caster plates? I'd buy direct, but they want a little too much money for them and I'm too lazy to take mine apart to measure. Would rather do it just once to swap the parts.

[Brown9348]

Another update. So I had a chance to work on the car this weekend. I found the source of my squeaking. It was NOT the springs at all. I had set up the street camber plates to about -1.25° of camber for whatever reason. In doing so, the top nut on the strut was rubbing against my reinforcement plate in the tower. Anyway the photos make it much easier to see what I mean.

Here is a reference point to show how it the assembly is mounted in the tower, photo taken from the front left wheel. I'm still not 100% sure they are installed facing the correct way, but I don't see how else it could possibly go in. It looks similar to how the stock strut sat in there.


Close-up of the worn down metal of the factory reinforcement plate from when I set it to about -1.25°


Here is the nut from the top, you can see its worn down on the right side near the lip of the plate.


Here is where I set it to now (front right tower), so that it doesn't rub, roughly -.8° is about as much as I can set it to without rubbing.


So this is definitely what was causing my noise, its not creaking at all now, but I need to get in touch With GC to figure out what I did wrong. You should be able to at least get to the factory -1° 40' [EDIT: wrong number, (See next post.)] with these plates, maybe they weren't intended to be used with the reinforcement plates-- i'll find out soon though for sure.

[Brown9348]

^Edit: I realize now that I was reading a spec that I wrote down a while back for camber in front... I had mistaken it for the rear.
According to bently; Front is 0* 46' +/- 30', rear is -1* 45' +/- 10'.

And I was told by GC that the number on the plate indicates additional camber. So the -1* on the camber plate is closer to -1.8*.

[jakermac]

So none of what you are doing is based on actual numbers from an alignment machine? You're just guessing based on the info from GC and the original OEM specs? This is not how this works. You need to get a proper alignment to see what the actual real numbers are.

[Brown9348]

^I think your misunderstanding what I am saying. I stated the the factory specs according the Bentley manual. I'm also saying that GC told me that If i were to set the plate to the line indicating -1* on the camber plate, the actual number would be roughly the stock setting in addition to -1*, so the total might be close to about -1.8*.
Obviously I have no idea what the actual measurements are right now, but there's a big difference -1* and -1.8*.
My post was not intended for anything besides pointing out that discrepancy, and yes, the 'guess' listed on top of one of the pictures above is only the value indicated on the plate, not an actual measurement. But it is a reference point showing what the plate says versus where the nut is rubbing on the reinforcement.

[TostitoBandito]

So none of what you are doing is based on actual numbers from an alignment machine? You're just guessing based on the info from GC and the original OEM specs? This is not how this works. You need to get a proper alignment to see what the actual real numbers are.

This.

I also have a GC setup on my E36 M3. After I installed and roughly set the camber plates based on the scale on top I immediately took the car in and got it aligned and corner balanced. After alignment and balancing the plates are nowhere near indicating the actual camber, and furthermore the left and right sides are not exactly the same. Every car is different. This is why you use an alignment rack.

The only use for the camber marks on the top of the camber plate is in case you want to do something like get it aligned at two different settings, like for track and street, and then record exactly where to set each plate for each mode. That way you can flip them back and forth yourself, without hosing your alignment.

[brianc]

..ok I'm reviving this thread
I've always had creaking from the front coilovers at very low speed turning - like pulling out of the driveway. I have the whole front suspension apart and thought I might try to address the creaking after many years. The car is a '98 E36 M3. It certainly sounds like the springs turning and binding but I don't know 100% for sure. I have the street setup... the front coilovers use the stock upper mounts. So the coilover has the lower perch (aluminum), the spring, the top hat (aluminum), and the upper mount. See pics. Is there something I can do here... lube, add piece etc.. to reduce the chance of creaking?

[jayjaya29]

You can add torrington bearings to the setup such as these:

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...aring-Kit.html

[brianc]

Thanks, I'll give them a shot. I bought these ones on amazon.. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[circuit.heart]

It looks like your springs are also too large for the perch, so if they don't settle in just right, that'll creak too as you literally bend, not just twist, the spring as you steer.

If it were me I'd find the correct size adapter perch/spacer, and order the correct-sized torrington to sit between the new adapter perch and your current spring.

[brianc]

It looks like your springs are also too large for the perch...

It's an optical illusion.. It's an old Ground Control Street setup w/ 2.5" springs.
At any rate I figured out what was going on and wanted to update the thread. Keep in mind that as of this post this is a 17-year old setup and GC has not sold this particular kit in quite some time. However it may help those that have similar problems or bought cars that have this setup installed. As you may be able to see in the picture the stock M3 upper hats have a shallow rubber pad and they have some build-in camber for the stock M3 geometry. When the old GC kit using these stock upper hats is installed, and the car is lowered, this geometry is altered w/ more negative camber. So when the pad wears down a bit the GC top aluminum perch start digging into the stock M3 hat where the pad is worn out. If you have any sort of fixed camber plate installed this would be made even worse.
The solution for me was to buy a compatible camber plate set from GC to replace the stock M3 upper hats. After calling GC I confirmed that the 92-99 M3 street camber plates are drop-in for it as long as you order for correct spring size (2.5" in my case) and specify Koni Tapered Top struts. I probably should have done this a long time ago. With this setup you will have better geometry/adjustment and can probably still use the M3 strut reinforcement plates and get 2-3 degrees negative camber if wanted.

https://groundcontrolstore.com/colle...-92-99-m3-pair

On a side note the GC parts look very good for being 17 years old w/ 70k miles on them. The powdercoating on the strut inserts is in very good condition and the anodized aluminum parts are in great shape. The Eibach springs started to peel a bit and I decided to replace all four together w/ new bump stops while I was in there. The Koni struts all tested fine and did not need to be replaced.

GC_stock_hat.jpg