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Thread: Dragged Out of the Salvage Yard - Bringing a Coupe Back to Life

  1. #76
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    More Photos, More Parts to Buy

    I'm sold on the adjusters. Most of David's summer earnings went to TC Kline, so lowered is now part of the equation. We can't delay for posi-lock fittings even if we thought we needed them.

    Looks like we need brake lines:

    image.jpgimage.jpg

    Here's a look at the trunk floor:

    image.jpgimage.jpgIMG_7944.jpg

    He needs to move out on this, as he's monopolizing his shop's lift at the moment.

    As to brake lines, I'm figuring DOT approved braided stainless. Ireland has these, but Rogue seems not to. Any other sources worth looking at?
    Last edited by Outrider; 08-21-2016 at 06:57 PM.

  2. #77
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    that cracking on the brake lines is just in the rubber protective lining. The lines are most likely fine but still a good excuse for getting some braided lines. That is on my to do list also.

  3. #78
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    +1 for the normal IE eccentrics.

    Posiloks are more "sure" to stay but can still slip, but only offer minute, EXACT increments.

    The Eccentrics allow "infinite" adjustment within their range, just ensure they are torqued well, and it's a good idea to "mark" with a paint pen (nail polish, etc) to have a visual to ensure they are staying tight between alignments.

  4. #79
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    I've placed an order for the I.E. camber and toe adjusters. Hopefully they'll arrive in some semblance of an acceptable time. I'm curious if the adjusters are equally valuable for the Z coupes. My Z's subframe bushings will get replaced within the next year or so. That seems a good time to add adjusters to the Z coupe if they're of value.

  5. #80
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    The adjustable toe and camber kits are equally as valuable on a non-M as they are on M's. If I ever have the subframe out on any of my cars they are something I add.

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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outrider View Post
    I've placed an order for the I.E. camber and toe adjusters. Hopefully they'll arrive in some semblance of an acceptable time. I'm curious if the adjusters are equally valuable for the Z coupes. My Z's subframe bushings will get replaced within the next year or so. That seems a good time to add adjusters to the Z coupe if they're of value.
    Even moreso; the non Ms seem to suffer from too much negative camber to begin with, and even the slightest amount of lowering exacerbates that.

    I bias the Z3 installation, so that camber can only be decreased, whereas they're centered on the Ms, allowing a little more/a little less camber, as required.

    Ireland usually gets my orders moving the same day, so you're at the mercy of the carriers after that.

    Just got off the phone with David, sounds like he's moving along

  7. #82
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    Nice to Have Such Positive Reinforcement from the Community

    David is fortunate to be getting so much help both from here on the forums as well as at his shop. I know I'm grateful for the advice and assistance.

    Dual ear diff cover getting installed:

    image.jpg

    Reinforcements in place with clamps still attached:

    image.jpg

    Kinda hard to see in the photo below, but the diff is being supported so the mounting tabs can get welded in.

    2000 IR Coupe Diff Mounting.jpg

    David should finish up his work in the shop this week. Ireland was back-ordered on suspension carrier bushings, so I won't see parts until mid-week. That probably means the camber and toe adjusters will have to wait a while for installation
    Last edited by Outrider; 08-28-2016 at 07:46 AM.

  8. #83
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    Another Day, a Few More Photos

    Much of the welding is complete. David is getting close to finishing up with the hot work...

    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
    Last edited by Outrider; 08-29-2016 at 08:59 PM.

  9. #84
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    Here are two shots from today's work:

    image.jpg image.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    David test drove the car today. Of course, he did this without any mufflers...

  10. #85
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    Awesome thread.
    E36/8 2000 M Coupe Cosmos Black/Black
    Shark, Conforti CAI, B&B Exhaust, H&R, Bilstein, AKG Subframe/Diff, UUC TME Red/Caps, Swapped Front Hats, Ice>Link.
    ================================================== =======================

  11. #86
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    SuperSprints by way of Ed Hands.

    image.jpg

    We are almost there.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    Even moreso; the non Ms seem to suffer from too much negative camber to begin with, and even the slightest amount of lowering exacerbates that.

    I bias the Z3 installation, so that camber can only be decreased, whereas they're centered on the Ms, allowing a little more/a little less camber, as required.
    That's interesting. Do you mean there's too much negative camber at rest, or does it gain too much camber too rapidly under cornering loads and bumps?
    2000 BMW Z3 ///M Roadster - Cosmosschwarz Metallic, black/gray interior ~ my favorite hemorrhoid

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  13. #88
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    Ireland Engineering Toe and Camber Adjustment Fixtures

    FWIW, the toe and camber adjustment plates I bought from Ireland Engineering came with no installation instructions.

    How should they be installed on an M?

    On a Z?
    Last edited by Outrider; 09-20-2016 at 10:30 AM.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outrider View Post
    FWIW, the toe and camber adjustment plates I bought from Ireland Engineering came with no installation instructions.

    How should they be installed on an M?

    On a Z?
    On an M, as opposed to the Z3, center the slots over the original holes. The outboard mounts have the slots oriented horizontally to influence the toe adjustment, and the inboard slots are oriented vertically (up & down) to change camber settings.

    Outboard:





    Inboard:


  15. #90
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    Better Planning Next Time

    I so wish we had planned this aspect of the project out to include the toe & camber plates from the beginning.

    Looking back, we had time. It simply didn't occur to me that this kind of mod was necessary until it was pretty much too late to get this done before we had to get David's car out of the shop. It would have been so easy to do this in advance.

    Lesson learned for whomever tries a similar rebuild. If you're going to have to replace the suspension carrier, make camber & toe plates part of your build plan.

    Thanks, Randy, for the photos and the directions.
    Last edited by Outrider; 09-20-2016 at 11:41 PM.

  16. #91
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    Awesome Thread. A lucky young man getting all this experience.

  17. #92
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    So this is the first time I have posted on here... So that would be my M Coupe and its pretty much done I just need to file the paperwork and get safety on the car. I still need to install the Metal clutch pedal, T/C Kline D/A Coils with vorshlag camber plates, harness bar, Stud conversion and a few small things here and there. I also plan on installing my MOMO steering wheel, and getting a set of racing seats because I plan on autocrossing but im 6'2 and even with the seat spacers in right now I wont have enough space with a helmet. So i was thinking about getting vag brackets and Corbeau Forza seats (still not sure on fitment and what harness)

  18. #93
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    Awesome job on it.
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    ================================================== =======================

  19. #94
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    Getting the car back on the road has now entered the bureaucratic phase.

    According to information posted by the Commonwealth of Virginia, the car is no longer eligible for a normal title. It will be marked as repaired, indicating that the repair costs were between 75 and 90% of the car's value when it was repaired. This is pretty frustrating, since traditional references are poor indicators of what a 27,000 mile S52 sunroof delete Coupé is really worth.

    Though the repairs have been costly, they don't reach the 75% threshold even at the low value assigned by NADA and the like. But there doesn't seem to be any way to contest the original assessment within the DMV's procedures. Situations where the facts are displaced by opinions don't sit well with me.

  20. #95
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    You're probably going to get mad at me for saying this, but this was a salvage car originally, right? So it was written-off by the insurance company originally. Totaled car, then with a salvage title.

    Now that you repaired it and if it passes inspection per your state, you will get a repaired/rebuilt title. That's what you're supposed to get. If you were able to get a unbranded title, you would be able to circumvent all of the protections built into the system to prevent unscrupulous people from buying wrecked cars, fixing them and selling them as normal cars with no disclosure as to the previous status of the car. That is illegal, which is why you have to get a repaired title.

    I don't share your view- once the car is totaled, it deserves a branded title. Cost of the repairs now compared to value now is irrelevant. I think the situation only gets ridiculous when the car has an extremely high value and there is almost no way to total the car. For example, '62 Ferrari GTO- approximate value of $40 million, give or take. You could crash the car severely, destroy almost all of the car and it will still cost less to fix than even 60% of the value prior to the crash.
    Last edited by cleanerPA; 10-03-2016 at 01:04 PM.

  21. #96
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    I won't get mad at all. I simply have a different perspective. From what I can see, the car never should have been written off as a total loss.

    One part required welding. (Shock tower)
    Everything else was bolt on. Hood, one fender, radiator support, a/c condenser, power steering cooler, one headlight, bumper cover.
    There was no air bag deployment.

    The car was sold for $30K as a used car in 2012 and 2,000 miles before it was wrecked in 2014. (Car had/has about 27k on the odometer.). Both ends of the equation are fungible. Is M Coupe Buyers Guide right about prices or is NADA? Repair shop pricing isn't without its variations, either.

    Your comments notwithstanding, both the the value of the car and the repair cost are important. The law recognizes this by setting a threshold that differentiates a normal repair from something more. The threshold is based on what the car was worth pre-repair and what it costs to repair the car.

    What I specifically dislike is the absolute authority given to the person who makes an estimate of the repair cost. There's plenty of leeway in this decision making, including making the decision the customer wants. I'd like a bit more discipline in the process.

    The law requires me to prove what my repair costs are. That means hard facts. Receipts, photos, sworn statements. So if my costs add up to, say, $8K and the pre-wreck car is worth, say, $18K the actual repair is well under the 75% threshold that demands a modified title. I very much mind that there's no adjudication process.

    I get consumer protection. Lots of unscrupulous sellers out there. Last car I bought had a clean carfax and tons of bodywork. Hard to tell if it was done at once or over time. Didn't get reported. Nor did broken glass.

    We didn't buy the car to flip it. We 're hoping David holds on to it for a very long time. Given this build thread, we're not trying to hide anything. We went way overboard in ensuring everything was perfect. Seems a shame to throw a red flare at this one.
    Last edited by Outrider; 10-03-2016 at 09:39 PM.

  22. #97
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    I do see your point, but at the end of the day the car was purchased from a salvage yard, per the thread's title. Lets create a similar situation - a car was deemed a total loss when a high repair cost was quoted by a repair shop - then the car went to a salvage yard. I buy the car because I had all the parts to repair it sitting in my backyard and I fix it all myself, no money paid for parts or labor. My repair cost is therefore $0, I get a clean title on the car regardless of the actual amount of damage done to the vehicle and I'm good to sell it for "clean title" prices. Now, imagine it is a shady used car dealership doing this. They buy the car, do the work themselves and source parts themselves or have their own parts stock on hand. Would it then be fair for them to get a clean title in order to misrepresent it to the customer?
    And I do understand the concern that the repair shop giving the estimate has a lot of power in this situation - and yes, the customer's wants can weigh heavily in the quote. But if a car is too far gone to be properly repaired, it will not remain a clean title. Likewise, it can be so minimally damaged it can not become a salvage. When that gray area exists where the customer has the "freedom" to make a choice, then if they choose to get a higher quote and total the car then so be it. That gray area will always exist in that business in some circumstances but again, when the car was in the salvage yard, it is a salvage.

    I guess in short, once the car was branded salvage, it stays that way. It can be problematic as it can prevent you from insuring it for full value, but other than that if you plan on keeping the car it should be no issue at all.

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  23. #98
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    I've bought and repaired many salvage vehicles over the years--about one a year for over 20 years (seems like I always have one going), and yes, the salvage system is a pain to deal with. However, the values should equalize--presumably you bought the car for considerably less than you would have been able to if it had not been branded salvage. While now repaired, it is worth less than an unbranded car. You realized a savings going in and realize a loss going out--if you were efficient in your pricing and repair assessment at the start, you should still be ahead of the game. I use a rule of thumb when buying salvage of approximately 20% of book, and assume a discount on value of repaired salvage of between 20-50% off book. I'm not sure those rules of thumb apply to a collector car, but it has been a good measure for me. If you document the damage and repair properly (and do a good job) you should be able to get closer to the 20% off book. But the better way to look at it is that you now have an expensive car for pennies on the dollar (discounting your labor to zero) and had way big fun in the process--all thanks to the branded title. For me it is simply a fun hobby--I usually give mine away when I'm done with a car.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outrider View Post
    What I specifically dislike is the absolute authority given to the person who makes an estimate of the repair cost. There's plenty of leeway in this decision making, including making the decision the customer wants. I'd like a bit more discipline in the process.
    I'm going through this right. Thursday I had my only accident in my driving career (roughly 9 years). I hit the back of someone's car because I thought the way was clear and was looking at the traffic. My hood is ruined, my front bumper cover is in worse shape than before, and my headlight is GONE. The estimate is at about $4500 and possibly a total loss.

    Yesterday I found out there were several hours' labor worth invested in removing the door to paint a tiny scrape that you can't even see because it's on the edge between the panels. I told the service advisor I could absolutely do without that being repaired since a dab of touchup paint will prevent rusting. I feel devastated that I was not consulted in any way about this, and now I should probably get a second opinion because I don't think I can get the shop to reevaluate the repair costs.

    Regardless, I'm going to have to buy the car back if the insurance totals it because the amount I'm going to be fighting with them over is probably not going to be enough to buy another Z3.

    Oh, and they (insurance) are taking FOREVER to get this dealt with and the person listed as my claims adjuster said he wasn't involved with being a claims adjuster.

  25. #100
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    Lann... Do stand your ground to get what you want with the car regarding salvage or not. I've had three cars totaled. I bought each back because they were readily repaired at much lower costs than were estimated. If yours gets totaled, consider buying it back.

    Ralph and Graham's posts do a good job of covering the economics. The economics do matter. These are great cars, but most can be replaced--so don't overspend. But if the money is close, then you can think about saving the car because it is what it is--and nobody's going to make another just like it.

    It's very rewarding to be involved in this rebuild. I had every expectation that the car would end up with something other than a normal title. Within that context, I still find it incredulous that there's no process to make a case that a car did not actually suffer the damage it was estimated to have--and therefore whether the law regarding branding a title actually applies.

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