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Thread: Question for who have swapped S54 oil pump/pan onto an M5x/S5x engine

  1. #1
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    Question for who have swapped S54 oil pump/pan onto an M5x/S5x engine

    So I have collected the parts to swap an S54 dual pick up pump and pan onto my M52 engine. I have read that the S54 oil pump provides less volume than the M52 and S52 pumps (perhaps due to the S54 not relying upon hydraulic lifters?). I have seen where VAC offers a higher volume solution. My question is how have the S54 pumps worked on those M52s and S52s? Have any of you experienced problems with not enough oil volume?

    My understanding is the S54 pump provides oil at a slightly higher pressure than the M52/S52s. Has this proven to be true?
    1997 E36 Track Car - Started life as 328is
    1997 E36 S54 Track Car
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    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    There are answers, but it's not a straightforward situation.

    It's simple to increase the maximum pressure of the oil pump; all that has to be done is to use a stronger oil pressure relief valve spring, or shim the existing one to get the same effect. I guess that BMW did that, since my stock S54 pump does indeed develop a higher max pressure, maybe 65 psi or so vs. stock 59 when the engine is first started. So far so good.

    However pressure varies inversely with rate of flow, so once the pump can't keep up with demand, for instance when the oil gets hot, thins out and starts flowing more readily, pressure drops off. My S54 pump does just that: at medium rpm with hot oil (220F plus) it's at least 10 psi lower than with the S52 pump, and at idle the low oil pressure light comes on. Uh-oh, less good.

    On the other hand the S54's dual pickup largely solves the whole oil starvation issue on track, so over time and under track conditions sustained oil pressure is much better than with the S52 pump, even though sometimes it's not as good. Hmmm.

    Now, assuming that the VAC modded S54 pump works as claimed, we should have the best of all worlds: good peak pressure, restored capacity to maintain pressure under high demand conditions, and no sucking air under sustained high-g cornering. Yay.

    The problem is that it's pricey, and when like me you've already installed the S54 pump (years ago), you know that installation is a royal PITA — support engine from above, remove drive belts, unbolt PS pump and steering rack, disconnect steering giubo, disconnect engine mounts, lower subframe, drain oil, remove many many oil pan bolts, remove pan, drip residual engine oil on self and surroundings, remove oil pump drive sprocket and chain, disconnect pickup tubes, unbolt pump, and Christ knows what other steps I've forgotten, before having to reverse the entire procedure — that I haven't been desperate to revisit the whole process.

    Bottom line: it's a good idea in theory, and that's where I want to live — because everything works in Theory.

    Neil

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    Thanks for the response Neil! Your posts are always super informative and helpful. The lack of pressure at idle when hot is certainly worrisome. around what RPM does it pick up? The car is track only so I could have the tuner set the idle a little high if that solve that issue. Since I'm going to have the engine out already, I am tempted to knock out the pump issue with the VAC modded pump but like you said, it is very pricey.
    1997 E36 Track Car - Started life as 328is
    1997 E36 S54 Track Car
    2010 E90 335i - Daily driver
    2011 F-250 - Tow rig

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    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by SalahHH83 View Post
    Thanks for the response Neil! Your posts are always super informative and helpful. The lack of pressure at idle when hot is certainly worrisome. around what RPM does it pick up? The car is track only so I could have the tuner set the idle a little high if that solve that issue. Since I'm going to have the engine out already, I am tempted to knock out the pump issue with the VAC modded pump but like you said, it is very pricey.
    You're welcome. Actually I'm not sure that the low oil pressure at idle should be considered worrisome in itself, since there's generally no significant load on the engine under those conditions. On the other hand it's an indication of the bigger picture. There's no doubt that, if I were getting another tune for my car, I'd have the idle bumped up a bit — if only to remove the warning light annoyance. I'd have to test to see how much extra rpm it would take, but I'm guessing that bumping idle up another 100 rpm or so would do it easily.

    I'm still pretty tempted to go the VAC pump mod route... mostly because I have a long history of over-engineering my car projects, so why stop now! Which brings us to the question of whether this is an example of over-thinking something that really isn't a problem in the real world. Damned if I know.

    Neil
    Last edited by NeilM; 06-01-2015 at 04:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    You're welcome. Actually I'm not sure that the low oil pressure at idle should be considered worrisome in itself, since there's generally no significant load on the engine under those conditions. On the other hand it's an indication of the bigger picture. There's no doubt that, if I were getting another tune for my car, I'd have the idle bumped up a bit — if only to remove the warning light annoyance. I'd have to test to see how much extra rpm it would take, but I'm guessing that bumping idle up another 100 rpm or so would do it easily.

    I'm still pretty tempted to go the VAC pump mod route... mostly because I have a long history of over-engineering my car projects, so why stop now! Which brings us to the question of whether this is an example of over-thinking something that really isn't a problem in the real world. Damned if I know.

    Neil
    I'm with you Neil. I like to lean toward the side of over-engineering as well. I think I will go with the VAC mod as well. First, it strengthens the shaft which is always a plus and second, although my core is believed to have only 86K miles on it (seller sent me carfax and shot of odometer), it's still not guaranteed. It would always be a nice peace of mind to know the pump's internals are refreshed with a set up that will move more volume.

    Your point about the variances in pressure make me wonder about playing around with oil weight for the S54 pump. S54s call for 10w60, correct? Obviously that engine is an entirely different animal, does not use hydraulic lifters, produces more power per liter, etc. but it does make me wonder if one should run a slightly heavier oil while using an S54 pump on an S52. Obviously, we don't want to be using too thick of an oil and robbing the engine of power or reducing oil flow, but if the pump was designed to run a thicker viscosity, perhaps increasing the viscosity of the oil we run on our engines would help in oiling?

    Again, I'm no engineer - but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night
    1997 E36 Track Car - Started life as 328is
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  6. #6
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    I have shimmed the oil pressure relief valve in the S54 oil pump 1.0 - 1.5 mm as recommended by others on the forum. I see about 70 psi when cold and it drops down to 14 psi at idle at 180°F oil temp with 15W40. In the summer when doing track events I use 20W50. Sent from my GTX3582R
    Last edited by chikinhed; 06-03-2015 at 12:07 PM.
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

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    What are you trying to achieve with the S54 dual pickup pump?

    I race an E36, as to many others, with single pickup and have no issues. I have a solid lifter engine however. I also have an Accusump with electric valve. I believe this is a better solution to overall longevity of the engine.

    On certain tracks going into a tight bend after a long straight will trigger the accusump - other than that, no issues. I like being able to pre-pressurize the oil system before starting the engine.

    VAC upgrade puts the M50 oil pump gears into the S54 housing. I would recommend at least going with their OPUK kit for the M50 pump if you decide to keep it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 944CS View Post
    What are you trying to achieve with the S54 dual pickup pump?

    I race an E36, as to many others, with single pickup and have no issues. I have a solid lifter engine however. I also have an Accusump with electric valve. I believe this is a better solution to overall longevity of the engine.

    On certain tracks going into a tight bend after a long straight will trigger the accusump - other than that, no issues. I like being able to pre-pressurize the oil system before starting the engine.

    VAC upgrade puts the M50 oil pump gears into the S54 housing. I would recommend at least going with their OPUK kit for the M50 pump if you decide to keep it.

    My car is a DE car built for track only. So far I have addressed every part of the car except the engine. I will be swapping in a new engine soon and I want to address any oil starvation issues while I have the engine out. I'd prefer the dual pickup over a baffled oil pan simply bc I want to do the job once rather than having to address it again in the future.

    I definitely will be addressing the oil pump nut while I'm in there, regardless. I was riding with a friend in his E46 330 when he dropped his oil pump nut at VIR and helped him haul his crippled car back to Charleston and then dismantled his car to fix the pump nut w a wired nut and loctite (miraculously his engine is totally fine and has run multiple track weekends with no problems since!)

    I'm tempted to go with the VAC upgrade for the S54 pump bc either way I was going to upgrade the pump nut/shaft. That costs $230. To send them my S54 pump and have them upgrade the nut/shaft plus add in the gears to increase the oil volume costs $600. For me, I'd rather over build it once rather than have to go back in there to address a lack of oil pressure/volume.

    On my stock engine (one that I've been waiting on to die for over a year but it just keeps taking a beating), I've found metal shavings and bearing material in the oil. Although I don't have an oil pressure gauge or any data logs, I'm sure I've oil starved on track before.

    I went the S54 pump and pan bc based upon the design, it appears impossible for the pump to suck up any air (unless the car is upside down )
    1997 E36 Track Car - Started life as 328is
    1997 E36 S54 Track Car
    2010 E90 335i - Daily driver
    2011 F-250 - Tow rig

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    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by 944CS View Post
    What are you trying to achieve with the S54 dual pickup pump?

    I race an E36, as to many others, with single pickup and have no issues. I have a solid lifter engine however. I also have an Accusump with electric valve. I believe this is a better solution to overall longevity of the engine.
    There are numerous data acquisition logs showing that S/M50 engine family oil pressure can drop well down into the teens under certain track situations. However our engines do seem to be pretty tolerant of this (your solid lifter version is of course an edge case). The dual pickup pump provides an effective, factory engineered fix that doesn't require any invention on our part. Which isn't to say it can't usefully be tweaked!

    Your Accusump is an alternative approach that has its own advantages and disadvantages.

    Neil

  10. #10
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    I hadn't posted off idle pressures. At 180°F oil temp I see 60 psi at 4000 rpm and 65 psi above 5500 rpm. I am also drawing additional oil from the system to the turbo.

    Sent from my GTX3582R
    '97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    I hadn't posted off idle pressures. At 180°F oil temp I see 60 psi at 4000 rpm and 65 psi above 5500 rpm. I am also drawing additional oil from the system to the turbo.

    Sent from my GTX3582R
    Thanks, Chikinhed! What type/weight oil were you using?
    1997 E36 Track Car - Started life as 328is
    1997 E36 S54 Track Car
    2010 E90 335i - Daily driver
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    I think I'm of the same mindset as the OP. And good feedback Neil. I was going to go with the Achilles reinforced pickup + baffle + upgrade pump but for the same price as those things (plus some $$ for install of the baffle), I can have a S54 pan/pump/dual pickup. Now it seems like the VAC M50 gears and upgraded shaft is also the way to go so double the investment there, but seems logical to protect the larger expense of the engine itself.

    I have a track / race buddy with an Accusump system - should be interesting to compare and contrast experiences over the years if I pull the trigger on the aforementioned setup.
    Montego/Saddle E91 328i xDrive - Estoril/Cloth Blue M3/4/5 - LeMons 325e - Artic/Black 1998 540iA (shell, for sale or donation towards LeMons)

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    I know this is an old thread, but I feel like I should contribute. I have been running a VAC race S54 oil pump and stock S54 oil pan on my s52-powered IP car for 7 seasons now. I have roughly 15-20psi at idle. I have glanced down in high speed sweepers and the oil pressure is typically around 40psi. I am very happy with my setup.
    '94 325is #94 IP/GTS3 Mauritius Blue Metallic
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    By 'Race' do you mean the HIGH VOLUME COMPETITION version here :
    https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac...b32-p1033.aspx

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    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    That’s the one.

    Neil

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    Does anyone know what specifically VAC does to increase volume? If I am reading the website correctly, it sounds like they increase volume by added a larger gear to the pump; anyone else agree?

  17. #17
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Yes, VAC increases the displacement of the S54 pressure stage pump. The need for this would seem to be the E36's use of hydraulic lifters, which call for more oil than the S54's solid lifters.

    I believe they do that by boring out the high pressure pump chamber of the S54 pump to allow substituting the larger gerotor pair from a regular E36 single stage pump. I haven't taken apart my own VAC Competition pump to verify this — because unfavorable risk/reward ratio! — but I have disassembled both the E36 single stage and S54 pumps, and the latter definitely has a smaller rotor diameter. E36 M3 oil pump internals are separately listed by BMW, see parts 2 and 3 here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_6017. (Copy and then Google the inner/outer part numbers from RealOEM to see vendors.) Of course in addition you get VAC's own improved shaft and compatible drive sprocket. Note that the sprocket is different for E36 and E46 applications, so you have to request the correct part when ordering.

    The only downside of the VAC pump is the price of admission, but it really is a complete solution. I pissed away a lot more parts, time and aggravation chasing down the oil pressure situation than if I'd just bought the VAC pump in the first place.

    Neil
    Last edited by NeilM; 01-23-2019 at 11:48 AM.

  18. #18
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    Thanks Neil, that was very helpful and informative!

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