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Thread: E34 M50B20 stroked to 2.3l + 30psi boost Triple turbo

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Brno, Czech Republic
    Posts
    61
    My Cars
    e34 m50b25 turbo
    Hello, I follow your threads here, on the driftworks forum and so.. Pretty cool stuff with the tripple turbo setup man

    I´ve been thinking, what if you use Siemens MS41/42/43 + ECU master DET3 just for the MAP sensor signal conversion to MAF signal...Then you could use stock Siemens full sequencional ignition and injection.

    I was running nonvanos m50b28 on MS2extra with sequencional ignition. Tuner studio is very cool and user friendly, especially if you purchase Autotune feature. Tuning fuel is very fast then.

    I´m building M52tub28 with single turbo now, because i was wondering how vanoses can help to spool the turbo. So I´ve been thinking of variant I´ve mentioned on the top..... tune the Siemenes MS42 + DET3 just for MAP conversion..

    What do you think Raimohal?
    Last edited by haCR; 02-19-2019 at 04:33 AM.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NW suburban Chicago
    Posts
    16,291
    My Cars
    hiss by my window
    Quote Originally Posted by RaimoHal View Post
    I had some old exhaust flanges from old projects laying around so i decided to make twin turbo log manifolds for testing purposes. The idea is to tune the engine with those manifolds, measure EGT, TIP and AFR and on the same day, change them to equal lenght proper manifolds and repeat the testing on the dyno to see the difference in performance.I also went driving on the lake, was fun.I also made instagram where i post some stuff i think is cool. https://www.instagram.com/rebellionestonia/
    As if you didn't already have problems with grip.
    Love your build. Agreed about return on investment for the triple set up but it was very cool and you are to be commended for packaging all of that stuff in the space available.
    Time for some more displacement.
    Last edited by ross1; 02-19-2019 at 08:47 AM.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    51
    My Cars
    1995 BMW E34
    Hello haCR,

    With my engine, i had ~150nm/~50kw difference with vanos on/off @ 3500rpm. So its works really good on my engine.

    You need to have your engine already tuned to make MAF to MAP conversion. And maf to map conversion can be made with datalogging MAF signal on/off boost and later choosing the option to generate "fuel table". "Fuel table" on DET3 software is for generating output signal for the stock ecu.

    I have seen tune files where they are using N/A engine maf to map conversion table on boosted cars. But it only works if the DET3 is controlling injectors, not the stock ecu.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Norristown PA
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    2,137
    My Cars
    mostly bmw
    haha.. wild. Like it man, good job.
    95 turbo 330ti. 01 maxpsi m3 e85. 01 m5. 01 m coupe. 03 AIM 996t e85. 06 x3 w/Meyers plow and winter daily. Prussian Motors is hiring!! prussianmotors.com/jobs
    Current e39t LS Turbo swap: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...LS-e39-Touring

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    tirana,albania,Albania
    Posts
    9
    My Cars
    1999 530d sedan
    Hello RaimoHal,

    I just finished headgasket and made a solid flywheel wiith m57 pressure plate , and installed all in the car. Started the car and everything looks fine. Now i will connect the turbo and IC and pipes. Still I am not sure about Ecu type. My car doesnt have knock control and I am afraid i cannot control detonation with DET3 since my engine is without Vanos. But if I spend some more money on Vems v3 , i might add some knock sensors and control it? Or is it too complicatet with Vems? If I will choose Det3 will you help me with some maps ?

    Regards

    Patrik

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    51
    My Cars
    1995 BMW E34
    Hello Patrik!

    Actually in theory you can add knock control to stock Motronic 402, 403 and 405 ecu. To make this work, you need to change the stock 27c256 EEPROM to 27C512 EPROM (from Winbond for example) and write two different tunes on it. One of them is with retarded ignition. Also you need external Knock control module that outputs analog signal. If the device sees knock, it changes maps and retards the ignition. I have never used those knock control modules, but if the device allows a delay between map switching after detonation is not present, it should work just fine. Also you need to do some soldering on the ecu, to make the map switching possible.

    The most reasonable way is to just not have very aggressive ignition timing and crazy amount of boost if the fuel quality is not good and the turbo is out of breath. A good tuner can find the point where the detonation starts being an issue and make the right corrections.

    Sorry i have never used VEMS and i dont know if it has knock sensor inputs.

    If you choose DET3, i can help you get it running.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    tirana,albania,Albania
    Posts
    9
    My Cars
    1999 530d sedan
    Dear Raimo ,

    Thank you for the support. I’ll choose Det 3 then since this is my first turbo setup , and will ask you later about tune. As for boost I do not plan anything more than 0,7 bar( 10 psi) . You are great and your build is one of the builds that have inspired me to make my car with turbo. I have seen also some builds in turbobmw.pl

    Regards
    Patrik

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    51
    My Cars
    1995 BMW E34
    No worries Patrik!

    I made some universal "mickey mouse" gauge pods, PM for more info.





  9. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Portugal, Braga
    Posts
    3
    My Cars
    1992 E36 320i Sedan
    Hi Raimo, first of all very nice build, i have been watching your build and it is a very nice exemple of what a outside of the box idea can be me so good . I am currently building a M50B20 and would like your thoughts, currently i have a GT35 turbo with 550cc injectors, a decomp plate with 2x gaskets, ARP head studs, 70mm exhaust and downpipe, m3 upgraded clutch and pressure plate. Would like to run 1,5 bar safely with ECU master DET3. Also if you could help me with the ECU Det 3 would be great has in this is my first turbo build Thank you very much

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    51
    My Cars
    1995 BMW E34
    Hello Alexandre!

    Thanks!

    GT35 turbo is wayyyy too big for that engine, unless you are going to rev that engine 8500rpm with a good cam. You can have a decent powerband with a GT28 turbo and stock cam.
    I have never tested decompression plates and i never will. I belive its a weak point for that engine. I would have used 133mm PRISM rods or just lathed the pistons. NV B20 pistons have a lot of meat on them and you can lathe the piston down ~ 1.8mm for lower compression. I did it to my spare B20 turbo engine and i used VHT Copper gasket on stock head gasket and torqued it down with ARP.

    I can help you with a base tune, but i suggest you to find someone who can tune your engine on dyno.

    I can answer questions faster on instagram :P
    https://www.instagram.com/rebellionestonia/

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    tirana,albania,Albania
    Posts
    9
    My Cars
    1999 530d sedan

    Need help wiring det3

    Hello Raimo.
    Almost finished my setup. Connected everything as stated in the Fuel implant mode connection. I have boost from 3000 rpm , 320 cc injectors. I want to ask you, shall I remove the cats completely? I still have them but i think they will heat up too much.

    Also please advise me regarding setting up the det 3.

    Best Regards

    Patrik


    Quote Originally Posted by RaimoHal View Post
    Hello Patrik!

    Actually in theory you can add knock control to stock Motronic 402, 403 and 405 ecu. To make this work, you need to change the stock 27c256 EEPROM to 27C512 EPROM (from Winbond for example) and write two different tunes on it. One of them is with retarded ignition. Also you need external Knock control module that outputs analog signal. If the device sees knock, it changes maps and retards the ignition. I have never used those knock control modules, but if the device allows a delay between map switching after detonation is not present, it should work just fine. Also you need to do some soldering on the ecu, to make the map switching possible.

    The most reasonable way is to just not have very aggressive ignition timing and crazy amount of boost if the fuel quality is not good and the turbo is out of breath. A good tuner can find the point where the detonation starts being an issue and make the right corrections.

    Sorry i have never used VEMS and i dont know if it has knock sensor inputs.

    If you choose DET3, i can help you get it running.

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    51
    My Cars
    1995 BMW E34
    Hello Patrik!

    It depends how much boost you are running and what is the pressure before CAT. If you want to be sure, use a cat that has better flow or remove it. It depends where are you driving your car and if its needed.
    There is a lot of info in the DET3 manual, but you can DM me and ill try to help you best i can.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    51
    My Cars
    1995 BMW E34
    I finally found a body for my M50B20 twin turbo engine. It came without engine and gearbox with a price of $90 Its a 1990 E34 520i touring.



    Got the engine and gearbox installed and decided to make new turbo headers. Sold the log type manifolds.





    Theyre not pretty, i know.



    I need to find two turbos with same size, make intake pipes, oil feed, exhaust and then i can start tuning the ecu.


    Another fun little project that i have is a 52mm gauge that displays 4 different temp values wirelessly:










    Ver 1 was using 0.96" OLED display, but Ver2 is using 1.3" OLED. So the idea is that i can install the gauge anywhere in my car and only connect +12v to it. Also there is a transmitter box that has 4 temp sensors installed and sends values wirelessly outside of the car. Still a lot of things to test and change to make it work and look better, but this is what it looks right now.



    I also made adapters for bi-xenon projectors for my white E34:







    Test video:


  14. #64
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Norristown PA
    Posts
    2,137
    My Cars
    mostly bmw
    Uh oh. There's another cool turbo e34 on the forum.
    95 turbo 330ti. 01 maxpsi m3 e85. 01 m5. 01 m coupe. 03 AIM 996t e85. 06 x3 w/Meyers plow and winter daily. Prussian Motors is hiring!! prussianmotors.com/jobs
    Current e39t LS Turbo swap: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...LS-e39-Touring

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    51
    My Cars
    1995 BMW E34
    So i finally had time to work on my cheap twin turbo beater touring project. We went on a dyno, to see what power it makes with wg spring pressure and with higher boost. The wg spring pressure was around 0.9 bar / 13psi and we couldnt get it higher because of the boost control fault. But that little 150hp 2.0l engine made ~270hp from wheel / ~309hp / 380nm from engine with 0.9bar boost pressure that was dropping to 0.8 bar after 5000rpm. When i have time to fix it, i will rise the boost to 1,4 bar/20psi and see what power it makes. Turbos should be good for ~350hp i belive.

    20200602_143608.jpg
    20200602_194456.jpg
    IMG_20200214_231902.jpg
    107851353_3004168363011686_8336815721745463936_n.png

    -Stock M50B20 engine with 8.8CR
    -Stock M50B25 decapped injectors
    -Stock fuel pump
    -Stock clutch
    -Stock 402 ECU + DET3 piggyback
    -450x230x65 intercooler
    -2x TD04 13T turbos from M51D25 diesel engine
    -Reused stock intercooler piping from diesel engines
    -524d air filter box

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    51
    My Cars
    1995 BMW E34

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
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    2016 640i, 1990 535iM
    ^^^^^ that black bar custom or off the shelf!
    2016 640i Coupe'
    1990 Bmw 535i Turbo 600whp

    1999 740iL: Sold
    1997 740i: Crashed and Parted
    1988 535i: Crashed and Parted
    1988 528e: Crashed and parted
    IG- @Rogetta_Stone

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    51
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    1995 BMW E34

  19. #69
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Portugal, Leiria
    Posts
    8
    My Cars
    1982 BMW 745i
    Hello, I know that it has been a long time but Im intrigued by the 25tds pistons, the pin from the B20 is 22mm and the pin from the M51 is 28mm, Im curious because I'm in the process of building an M50TUB20 turbo, my current plan is either the rods and pistons from a B20 non-vanos or the rods and pistons from a B22 with a 2mm oem head gasket and arp studs and because of this Im interested if there is another (kinda budget) alternative.

    Thank you and congratulations on your build.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Covington, Ga
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    2,853
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    08 535i, 95 540 MSport
    Quote Originally Posted by RaimoHal View Post
    I like this idea…..gonna use it on a few of my projects…..

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