Turn signals not working

**cdnalpina** · 05-04-2015, 01:42 AM

Hey Everyone,

I drove my Dinan 7 home from storage the other day and noticed my turn signals were not working on the dash.

Today I had a chance to look at it more closely and the turn signals don't work at all - on the cluster or the actual indicator lights. I checked the fuse and it was good. Is there a relay that controls this or does the LKM govern it? Or both? I have bought new capacitors for the cluster suspecting originally it was a cluster capacitor related issue. Now I can't help but think it is something more than that.

The car is a 1988, USA spec vehicle if that matters at all.

Thanks in advance!

Rob

**shogun** · 05-04-2015, 01:57 AM

LKM is not in charge for the turn signals. All relays are shown here by built year and engine http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e32/
scroll almost to the end where there is the section component location views, there you can see a pic and the description of the part.

**E32FAN** · 05-04-2015, 08:50 PM

Not certain what year your car is, but this Turn circuitry was not altered through the E32 years. Turn/Hazard Lights are shown in section 6312 of the ETMs.

Hazard Flasher Relay K16 receives the signals from the S7 Combination Switch (the left stalk) and makes the proper turn lights flash. You can see the K16 location in Figure 2 on Page 7100-01. You can probe K16 pins 2 and 7 to test the stalk switches.

My 1992 E32 S7 switch is a bit intermittent, but it is improving with use. I have a spare S7 from a donor car, RIP.

**shogun** · 05-04-2015, 08:55 PM

All relays by built year on one page, we made that years back on the German forum and here it is on the site of my friend Wolfgang http://www.e32-schrauber.de/bmw/s-relaisbelegung.htm
K16 is in the top line of relays in the link

**E32FAN** · 05-04-2015, 09:10 PM

Thanks shogun. So K16 was always positioned immediately left of the CCM.

**cdnalpina** · 05-05-2015, 08:47 PM

Thanks ever so much for this! I have spare relays from a parts car so I will try one of those and see if it cures my indicator issues. Will report back.

Cheers

**cdnalpina** · 06-13-2015, 08:27 PM

Looooong overdue update on this. So I tried 3 other spare relays that I had with the same part number and no change. I double checked the fuse and it is fine. When I re-insert the fuse I can hear the relay click. SO I am wondering now if it is an issue with my cluster (I know I have to replace the capacitors in it. Or is it more likely a turn signal stalk?

- - - Updated - - -

Another update. Just replaced the three 220 micro farad capacitors in the cluster and TA-DA! The indicators work again! So for anyone with this type of issue, for sure check the K-16 relay but I also look into replacing the capacitors in the cluster (arguably a good maintenance item anyway).

Cheers!

**shogun** · 06-13-2015, 08:39 PM

Good find, thanks for the info, I just was looking for a solution and found this thread http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1251746
In his case it was a defective relay:"I pried off the housing of the flasher relay... It is defective! The lower copper contact plate has broken. " pic: http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1251800

**simonkingit** · 06-22-2015, 05:37 AM

Hi Have a similar problem with my E24 635. Its the one based on the E12 as it's a 1981 model.
The turn signals have been working fine for years, and just the other day when I installed a new radio, I discovered that the turn signals have stopped working. The flasher relay is fine, But I replaced it anyway.
When I turn on the ignition and operate the turn signal stalk, no turn signal light work. I do not hear a ticking noise from the relay. The same goes for the hazard light switch. I seems that there is no power at all.
I have looked at all the fuses in the engine bay fuse box, but could not find a fuse for the turn signals, just one that says turn signal gauge, windshield wiper...
I am a bit lost now.
Please help!

**shogun** · 06-22-2015, 05:54 AM

I do not know that model, as you say it is based on E28, here are the E28 as well as the E24 wiring diagrams, it also includes details on the fuses http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/

But as it started after you installed a new radio, also check the wiring around the installation place

**E32FAN** · 06-22-2015, 05:05 PM

The 1983 E24 manual is here: http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e24/
Turn lights are on pages 130 and 131.
Part locations see Page 207.
The flasher module is upper left side of steering column. Perhaps it was bumped loose?

**dgoebel** · 10-23-2022, 01:32 PM

[QUOTE=cdnalpina;28607319]Looooong overdue update on this. So I tried 3 other spare relays that I had with the same part number and no change. I double checked the fuse and it is fine. When I re-insert the fuse I can hear the relay click. SO I am wondering now if it is an issue with my cluster (I know I have to replace the capacitors in it. Or is it more likely a turn signal stalk?

- - - Updated - - -

Another update. Just replaced the three 220 micro farad capacitors in the cluster and TA-DA! The indicators work again! So for anyone with this type of issue, for sure check the K-16 relay but I also look into replacing the capacitors in the cluster (arguably a good maintenance item anyway).

Where is the cluster you are talking about? What is it called in BMW-speak so I can go look for it and replace those caps.
Many thanks
Dan

**shogun** · 10-23-2022, 07:05 PM

@dgoebel: accdg to your profile you have an E31 840Ci. Here is the E32 forum, and the instrument cluster capacitor problem is a problem of E32 and E34, I can only give you a link to an E32 instrument cluster repair with grey backplate http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/dash...dash_caps.html the E32 has 3 different versions,
Application date ...Back plate colour....Code plug type...Size...........Extra information
start ->02/89 ..........Grey.............HML 075............2048 bytes............No self test or diagnosis via Modic. Stops at 299960. code plug is non-standard
02/89 -> 09/90..........White............PIC 93C46..........1024 bytes............Self test + diagnosis via Modic. Code plug is standard EPROM
09/90 -> end..............Blue.............PIC 93C56..........2048 bytes............Self test + diagnosis via Modic. Code plug is standard EPROM

For E31 you have to ask for details in the E31 forum, here is one of such threads https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...rument-Cluster

**Annddrriy** · 11-01-2022, 10:14 AM

Strange thing happened one tail light on right side not working and not show at the dashboard matrix display tail light when I remove bulb from left side of the tail light that is shows on the dashboard matrix display.

**shogun** · 11-01-2022, 10:53 AM

Taillight is priority 2 only. If you have priority 1 faults, P1 faults are shown and a + sign, push the button of the CCM to show the additional faults, see owners manual when and how priority 2 faults are shown.

here are some tips about too many taillight warnings respect. no warnings https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-light-warning

incorrect 'Bulb Failure' Messages: If you have a single warning message -usually brake light or rear side light warning- and the bulb is definitely working the most likely cause is corrosion on the bulb-contacts. Clean the contacts with fine emery-cloth and squirt some contact cleaner on the contacts, that usually cures the fault.

If you get multiple warnings, side lights, rear lights, brake lights etc. then the fault is usually due to the headlight-aim motors installed mainly on the EURO spec. E32. These get electrically noisy and the noise confuses the Check-Control-Module (CCM). The simple repair is to get the headlights aimed correctly and then remove the connector to the motors.

Intermittent Rear/Brake lights. If you have rear lights that are intermittent the most likely cause is the famous 'Mustard Relay' which was present on early models. The picture below shows where it isn't on the later models as the Mustard Relay was replaced by electronics in the LKM = Lamp Control Module. The relay can be taken apart and re-soldered. http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e32/BMW_E32..._files/462.jpg
The real mustard relay looks like this http://bmwe32.masscom.net/sean750/mu...stardRelay.htm
https://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maint...trical/LKM.htm

**Annddrriy** · 11-02-2022, 09:05 AM

Here is a think how tail light on right side was fixed. I had another one used yellow relay which was soldered. I just replaced yellow relay then tail light on right side work again. The problem is not soldered joint the problem is in electromagnetic coil very weak of the age. Magnet is to weak inside light yellow relay. That is why I prefer to have automatic transmission hydraulic version which is has no solenoids in valve body. The solenoids in valve body of electronic hydraulic version also has magnet which gets weak of the age then what happened if automatic transmission solenoids are weak and not hold the ATF pressure then transmission gears won't shift right.

**Annddrriy** · 11-02-2022, 05:10 PM

I did resoldered mustard relay 3 times. it can't be solder joint 3 times resoldered is not good. The relay I put it was seating on a shelf for around 5 months then I replaced and tail light working no problem.

**Annddrriy** · 11-23-2022, 10:10 AM

SRS Module completely disconnected from power 12v and when scanner was connected it not communicate with the ABS module. is there any power 12v share between SRS and ABS modules ? Thanks !