New to me '98 323is

[Nanniepoo]

Picked up a 323is a couple weeks ago. Blew my HG on my '94 325i and figured I would just move on to another E36, plus moved from an auto to a stick, and there's considerably less rust!

Couple of issues that I didn't really notice during the test drive, mainly because I was too far from a highway. Going around the connecting ramps, so 60+mph, if it's bumpy, the rear end feels really squirrely. Like it steps out after each bump. I'm assuming this is RTABs? There is no noticeable sound associated with this. I'm waiting on getting the maintenance records, I know there was a lot of front end suspension work, and it definitely feels like it. Very sharp, tracks perfectly straight, but back end kind of has a mind of its own. Rear shocks were recently replaced. RSMs looked good when I quickly glanced, but I'll probably replace them with some ground control ones anyways. Hard braking or hard acceleration both don't produce any odd movement or sounds.

I can post pictures if wanted, but really it looks like many of yours... Blacked out kidneys and smoked corners, will probably put the ambers back in.

Other plans are to fix up the instrument cluster (can only see half of odometer) and OBC back-lighting. Swapping my Mishimoto rad over and also have a water pump ready to go.

[tigerpro357]

I would like to see pictures. pictures are what makes admiring someone elses work possible lol

[mr ilia]

change rtabs, i had exactly the same issue before changing them out.

[B320i]

I just had my car inspected by a very reputable Indy. There were no issues with any of the suspension components, despite what I had noticed. They noted that some rubber bushings were showing signs of the beginning-of-the-end, but they said practically every E36 they see has ruined rubber bushings (which I assume are the RTABs that are being discussed).

My tires were getting towards the end in terms of wear, and I had already booked the car in for new tires. New Tires + an Alignment took care of my "squirelly" to quite an extent, although its still somewhat noticeable.

So check out your tire wear, get them rotated and get an alignment. If that doesn't solve it, then I'd be looking into suspension work. But the car has no-where near as much 'kick' going over somewhat questionable roads (with ruts in them, for example), at least in my experience.

[Nanniepoo]

I'll try to get pictures this weekend, haven't taken any yet...

Thanks for the confirmation on the RTABs. And B320i, I think I'm just going to go ahead and replace them, good chance they haven't been done. Tires have little wear, but I suppose rotating them could change things. Alignment was recently done. PO only had it for 10 months.

I'm going to wait for the maintenance records, should get them Sunday, before really jumping into things. They're the shop records, so depending on what they did to the rear end, I may take it back and say something still isn't right.

I'll most likely being buying the RTAB tool and doing it on the vehicle, looks really easy. Any opinions on brand/type? I'm thinking I'll avoid poly because of noise and price. M3 style is exactly the same price as stock...

[BMW1999m3]

My car was doing the exact same thing. It felt particularly dangerous when going freeway speeds around curved freeway interchanges. It's like the rear wheels suddenly shifted position and it felt like my car was going to lose control. After replacing my RTAB's, I have that nice 'tight' new-car feel again. There's a company called MIS that makes a tool which allows you to pop these bushings out and squeeze the new ones in. The tool is like $100 on Ebay and you can find OEM replacement bushings for about $6 each from Rockauto.com. I actually still have my tool and don't need it anymore if you want it for $60 shipped with Paypal.

[Nanniepoo]

Yeah I'll take it!

PM incoming.

[BMW1999m3]

Cool, I replied to your PM but nothing is showing up in my "sent items" folder, so I don't know if it's actually being sent.
Let me know if you got it. Thanks!

[Nanniepoo]

Got it. Funds will be sent shortly!

[jagerking]

I would strongly recommend against buying the cheapest branded RTABs you can find. First off, they're tricky to do, and secondly, you have to get an alignment done afterwards as the RTAB and bracket is what sets the toe. A very common upgrade to the RTAB while still staying with stock rubber is going to the Z4 RTAB. They're more solid and will improve handling while not adding the NVH of poly (or changing the axial deflection detrimentally). Also, stick with a name brand on those bushings. Stock Lemforders last more than 100k miles. I'm sure many of the cheaper brands don't.

[BMW1999m3]

When I did my RTAB's, I used a marker to outline the position where the RTAB pocket bracket sat against the chassis. This should help you know where to bolt it back up without throwing off the toe alignment too much. After I finished, I checked my alignment (picture below) with string and a ruler to make sure the wheels were parallel. Haven't had any abnormal tire wear or pulling whatsoever.

Also I did use the cheapest RTAB's available and didn't have any issues inserting them (just used lots of WD-40, lol). I did however use optional aftermarket "shim washers" aka RTAB spacers which sit on each side of the bushing, to reduce the lateral stresses they're exposed to to keep the same problem from happening again prematurely.

[Nanniepoo]

I would strongly recommend against buying the cheapest branded RTABs you can find. First off, they're tricky to do, and secondly, you have to get an alignment done afterwards as the RTAB and bracket is what sets the toe. A very common upgrade to the RTAB while still staying with stock rubber is going to the Z4 RTAB. They're more solid and will improve handling while not adding the NVH of poly (or changing the axial deflection detrimentally). Also, stick with a name brand on those bushings. Stock Lemforders last more than 100k miles. I'm sure many of the cheaper brands don't.

I was hoping you would respond. Resident suspension expert. Thanks for the input, I'll check them out!

I generally avoid cheapest possible... I've definitely learned my lesson.

[Nanniepoo]

When I did my RTAB's, I used a marker to outline the position where the RTAB pocket bracket sat against the chassis. This should help you know where to bolt it back up without throwing off the toe alignment too much. After I finished, I checked my alignment (picture below) with string and a ruler to make sure the wheels were parallel. Haven't had any abnormal tire wear or pulling whatsoever.

Also I did use the cheapest RTAB's available and didn't have any issues inserting them (just used lots of WD-40, lol). I did however use optional aftermarket "shim washers" aka RTAB spacers which sit on each side of the bushing, to reduce the lateral stresses they're exposed to to keep the same problem from happening again prematurely.

I'll definitely be marking them but will probably take it in for an alignment afterwards.

Would shims be recommended with the z4 bushings?

[BMW1999m3]

I think shims are a good idea for any bushing that has the extra space on the side. I'm pretty sure z4 RTAB's are the exact same dimensions as e36's. But perhaps there are performance bushings available that take up this extra space or are made of a more durable elastomer. The idea is to avoid exposing the rubber to all those lateral forces, which rip the rubber and cause the trailing arm to wiggle side-to-side.

Unfortunately I waited too long to replace my RTAB's and I think the trailing arm slamming back and forth contributed to my chassis mounting threads getting ripped out. I had to weld mine back in... Not fun!!! lol

[jagerking]

I was hoping you would respond. Resident suspension expert. Thanks for the input, I'll check them out!

I generally avoid cheapest possible... I've definitely learned my lesson.

It usually only takes once or twice before you realize that saving a buck or two isn't worth the headache of doing the job twice.

I'll definitely be marking them but will probably take it in for an alignment afterwards.

Would shims be recommended with the z4 bushings?

While you can get the alignment CLOSE to what it was before by marking the position of the RTAB bracket, the main problem lies with the fact that the new bushing will be in a slightly different spot than the old one was (and the car was aligned on the old bushing). This means that when you put it back together with a new bushing, you could be looking at drastically different numbers alignment-wise. Also, even string aligning your car won't let you see the hundredths of a degree off that your rear wheel is sitting. If you plan to keep the car for a while (and have more mods/overhauls that you want to tackle) consider getting a lifetime alignment from Firestone. Alignments are one thing I have no ability or desire to do at home, and mine has more than paid itself off (costs about as much as two alignment jobs). The money you'll save in tires over the life of the car due to proper alignment will be more than you'll spend.
The "shims" or "limiters" as they're referred to are similar to going with poly bushings (which almost always actually have limiters built in). What the limiters do is prevent the bushing from flexing, which is what it's designed to do during acceleration and braking. While the limiters MAY make your bushings last longer, they're not necessary if you properly center the RTAB's during installation. Many people don't center them properly and end up with a "clunk" on cornering, which is the bushing being too close to the bracket on one side, and making contact when weight is shifted. The limiters will prevent the clunking if the bushings are not perfectly centered. There isn't really a reason to run them at all if you do the job properly. The Z4 RTABs use a thicker rubber bushing to reduce the amount of deflection in the bushing, similar to the way M3 LCAB's do in the front compared to non-M LCABs. They're both sturdier, and they'll last longer than regular E36 ones will.

[rajicase]

As he said ^^ doesnt matter if you mark the rtab console and line it up perfectly. You may get fairly close, but rear toe is an important factor in both stability and tire wear. I've done hundreds of alignments and i routinely had the customer completely shocked by the before specs on the alignment (the specs as the car sat when it came in). "I counted the threads!" "I marked the bracket!"

[mr ilia]

Alligment is a must after rtab job. You can wait a day or two, but you want to get it soon after.

[Nanniepoo]

It usually only takes once or twice before you realize that saving a buck or two isn't worth the headache of doing the job twice.



While you can get the alignment CLOSE to what it was before by marking the position of the RTAB bracket, the main problem lies with the fact that the new bushing will be in a slightly different spot than the old one was (and the car was aligned on the old bushing). This means that when you put it back together with a new bushing, you could be looking at drastically different numbers alignment-wise. Also, even string aligning your car won't let you see the hundredths of a degree off that your rear wheel is sitting. If you plan to keep the car for a while (and have more mods/overhauls that you want to tackle) consider getting a lifetime alignment from Firestone. Alignments are one thing I have no ability or desire to do at home, and mine has more than paid itself off (costs about as much as two alignment jobs). The money you'll save in tires over the life of the car due to proper alignment will be more than you'll spend.
The "shims" or "limiters" as they're referred to are similar to going with poly bushings (which almost always actually have limiters built in). What the limiters do is prevent the bushing from flexing, which is what it's designed to do during acceleration and braking. While the limiters MAY make your bushings last longer, they're not necessary if you properly center the RTAB's during installation. Many people don't center them properly and end up with a "clunk" on cornering, which is the bushing being too close to the bracket on one side, and making contact when weight is shifted. The limiters will prevent the clunking if the bushings are not perfectly centered. There isn't really a reason to run them at all if you do the job properly. The Z4 RTABs use a thicker rubber bushing to reduce the amount of deflection in the bushing, similar to the way M3 LCAB's do in the front compared to non-M LCABs. They're both sturdier, and they'll last longer than regular E36 ones will.

Do you have a P/N for the Z4 RTABs? I'm just finding bushings that say they'll fit E36s, E46s, X3s, and Z4s. Nothing specific to Z4.

Also...I was told by the first shop I took my car to for an alignment that they couldn't do it properly, because of the fancy BMW sandbag procedure. I wound up taking it to a dealership.

With Mother's Day being next weekend, I probably won't get to this until the following weekend. I don't drive much so think I'll be fine. I'll replace them Friday and get it aligned the next day.

[jagerking]

Most of the big sites will just try and sell you the Z4 bushings as an upgrade (see HERE; unaffiliated) rather than the E36-specific bushing. The visible difference between the two is that the Z4 bushing loses the "lip" around the outer edge, so it's completely symmetrical. If you look in the part diagram on that page, you'll see the bushing (highlighted in red) has that outer lip, which the one currently on your car likely has. They also show the old part number for standard E36 bushings at the top.
As far as sandbagging your car for alignment; that's completely optional if you don't want it done that way. BMW specs their alignment for fully-loaded cars so that it will perform well when loaded down (and just fine with a driver-only). I don't have my car loaded down when it's aligned, since 99% of my driving is done with only me in the car. I politely ask to have my car aligned with me in the driver's seat, and they always allow it, so I have my car aligned as it's driven.

[Nanniepoo]

Received the RTAB tool Friday, so I'll be ordering some parts today. RTABs (obviously), bushing lube, SRS door emblem, code readers, stash of oil filters, and OBC lightbulbs. I was hoping to do this Friday and get it aligned the same day or Saturday, but currently showing rain all day Friday. We'll see. Also thinking about picking up a new headliner from Pelican.

Couple questions:
1. Opinions on bushing lube/grease?
2. The front interior lights don't always come on/off as they're supposed to. And don't respond to directly being turned on. It's not the door switch, I've fixed that, and the rear lights/foot wells function properly. Do not think it's the bulb(s) as all front three do not work, but they have lit up occassionally from opening the door.
3. Thoughts on the headliner material from Pelican? Reviews are all over the place with how well it matches up to the interior. It's a gray headliner by the way.
4. Looking at the picture of the RTABs...do the two notches (180 deg apart) need to be aligned a certain direction? I would imagine it wouldn't matter for rotation, but can see it affecting it's side to side motion.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't have pictures of the vehicle yet, but here's a couple from putting a new head unit in. Forgot a before pic.

During install:


After install and matching up the display color:



It's a Sony MEX-N5100BT. Highly recommend, partly (maybe mainly) because of the color match-up. Looks pretty clean IMO. Also it has NFC in addition to bluetooth. I don't like keeping my BT on all the time, and it is already programmed to where I can tap my phone on the volume knob and it sends instructions to my phone via NFC to turn on BT and connect. If I pick Pandora as a source on the radio, it automatically launches Pandora on my phone, and I have full control through the head-unit.

[slocar]

How do you like the 323is compared to the 325?

[Nanniepoo]

How do you like the 323is compared to the 325?

Really the big thing is moving from auto to manual, which is a big improvement in my eyes. Heated seats are really nice, even though summer is approaching, leaving for work at 5:45 it's still pretty chilly.

Really can't tell much of a difference other than that. I did test drive an M3 a week or two before picking this up, so I initially felt there was some missing power. But then again, maybe it does because there's a CEL I need to address.

I am pissed they changed oil filters from M50 to M52. I have like 10 M50 oil filters that I need to figure out what to do with now.

- - - Updated - - -

Ordered ground control RSMs as well.

[BMW1999m3]

Nice stereo... I like the pictures. As far as the headliner goes, I actually redid an e36 headliner before and it came out pretty good. I just went to a fabric/clothing supply store in town and bought a roll of thick foam-backed fabric. Then I got a can of spray-on adhesive and attached it to the headliner back-board, wrapping it around the edges and reinstalling it. It looked good as new when I finished.

[Nanniepoo]

Alright cool. I didn't know fabric stores had foam back fabric. I'll pull something off and take it in one of these days to try to match things up. Fiancee wouldn't mind another reason to go haha.

Discovered another problem. Passanger side window is loose, meaning I can tilt it towards the front and rear of the car. Noticed it because the passanger door was sounding odd when closing, and noticed the window was clipping the trim. I'll have to pull off the door panel and check it out.

Fun fun.

[slocar]

Fabric stores do sell headliner material (I know Hancock fabrics has it for sure; that's where I've bought it before) ... and do yourself a favor and buy that. It's foam backed, it wont seep through, you can use a stronger glue, it's easier to stretch. Did one on a e46 with it and compared to the 3 I did on e36s with microsuede, they were a breeze. Not to mention that my e36, 5 years later now has a tiny spot in the back corner by the pillar where the microsuede has started to let go.

If I do it again, it will be foam backed headliner material.