Kouks e34 complete rebuild

**kouks** · 04-18-2015, 08:16 PM

Well. here's how far I got today after about 4 hours of work, not too bad a progress for an old slow guy. Most of the hoses are gone, the one going to the PVC valve was gummy and would stretch and stay in any position I placed it at. The knock sensor housing was cracked so when I touched it it fell apart. Maybe that's why the engine was pinging when it was last running.

Couple questions for the M50 gurus

1. I am at a standstill because I do not have the M50 timing kit. The engine is at TDC but I'm afraid of removing the sprockets and timing chain due to the possibility of the cams moving and striking the valves on the pistons. Anyone in the northern LA area have a M50 timing kit I can borrow/rent/steal for a bit. You can ask about me on the e38 side of the forum for references, I'm sort of trustworthy.

2. Recommendations for good rebuild kits for the VANOS?

3. The M62 in my e38 is notorious for eating up chain guides. With the M50 at 240,000 and overheated, would you guys recommend I change the chain guides here too or are they robust enough to keep going?

4. Want to drop the oil pan to redo the gasket, does the engine need to be lifted or can the pan come out with the engine in place? Does the suspension cross member need to be removed?

If I can get a timing kit soon I think I can have the head to the machine shop by mid week and go from there.

Considering rebuilding the trans also. I found a leak coming from the bellhousing/engine mating area, so its either a rear engine seal or a front trans seal. Either way, the trans has to come down. If a 240,000 mile trans is out, might as well rebuild it, right? I rebuilt my 5hp24 in the e38 in my garage so I'm thinking this GM product won't be as bad and probably cheaper parts available than the ZF trans.

**E38740iMD** · 04-18-2015, 11:29 PM

The timing chain on these motors are pretty dam robust. Certainly not like the e38s m62s.

No need to work there unless you want that sleep good at night feel. No need for the extra work. In my opinion.

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But I'm no M50 guru. I'm afraid to do the headgasket on my m54 because I don't know how to use this "timing kits". Wish all engine were design like the m30 when it came do this

**Steve547i** · 04-19-2015, 12:59 AM

The chains aren't the issue. The guides are.

**biasvoltage** · 04-19-2015, 05:11 AM

Beisan Systems for your vanos rebuild kit: www.beisansystems.com
Or DR. Vanos for a remove-and-replace solution: www.drvanos.com

FYI There was a 95 525i in the Sun Valley Pick-Your-Part with a very nice and complete black interior last week. I snagged all 6 arm rests but the seats and door panels were all still there.

**kouks** · 04-19-2015, 08:20 PM

Thanks for the info gents. Good leads on all my needs and found a place that rents the timing kit. I'll just have to wait until it gets here to continue. Today I removed the entire wiring harness and cleaned what I could from the engine block. I decided to remove the front of the engine and replace every single gasket, and the timing chain guides too. If I'm in this deep might as well get everything in shape. I plan to keep this in the family for at least 5 more years and want them to be trouble free.

**Binjammin** · 04-19-2015, 09:36 PM

Since you're pulling the head, pan, and front gaskets... why not just pull the motor and be done with it? Do all the work on a stand where it's easier and you can clean the engine bay at the same time.

**locknload** · 04-19-2015, 10:21 PM

Back to your torx socket question, I think the BMW special tool is designed to allow it to fit past the cams to get to the head bolts thus allowing you to remove the head with the cams in place. The socket-on-extension method may not be suitable for doing that. When I swapped the head on mine a few months ago, I used the socket-extension and had to remove the cams first. Pelican has an excellent article on removing the (apparently delicate) cams without having to source the much harder to locate BMW cam removal special tool.

**kouks** · 04-20-2015, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Binjammin

Since you're pulling the head, pan, and front gaskets... why not just pull the motor and be done with it? Do all the work on a stand where it's easier and you can clean the engine bay at the same time.

Because I don't have an engine stand or a crane to pull it out. I did most of my e38 work on the base where the auto hobby shop had everything I needed, but I'm a bit limited in the garage. I have thought of trying to rent or borrow one.

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Originally Posted by locknload

Back to your torx socket question, I think the BMW special tool is designed to allow it to fit past the cams to get to the head bolts thus allowing you to remove the head with the cams in place. The socket-on-extension method may not be suitable for doing that. When I swapped the head on mine a few months ago, I used the socket-extension and had to remove the cams first. Pelican has an excellent article on removing the (apparently delicate) cams without having to source the much harder to locate BMW cam removal special tool.

Actually I test fit the standard female Torx fitting with an extension and it seemed to work fine. I have read the entire Pelican version of removing the cams and will be using their method.

**E38740iMD** · 04-20-2015, 04:43 PM

where did you rent the timing kit from. i need to rent one for a m54

**kouks** · 04-20-2015, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by E38740iMD

where did you rent the timing kit from. i need to rent one for a m54

Just Google Bimmer Tool Rental. Can't remember the website but looks almost like a BMW website with a lineup of the late model cars on the top photo. Good prices. After I get my deposit back total cost wi be &25 plus shipping costs back.

**kouks** · 04-29-2015, 03:19 PM

Well I finally got the timing tools and after returning from an airline trip got to pull the head. All cylinders were well sooted. There did not appear to be any scrapes or scratches on any cylinder walls, but I'm considering removing the block and having the experts at the machine shop evaluate it all. There was evidence of a coolant leak but it looks like it was external, not internal to a cylinder. All of the rings on the gasket were solid without any cracks. What concerns me is several bolts show rust. The lower head bolt threads at the 6 cylinder (where the coolant leak was) and the small head bolt at the water pump area are rusted. I can also see rust in the upper cooling drain at the 6 cylinder.

Experts, please review the photos and advise if this is not a big worry or to get another engine. My intent is to have the car around for another 100,000 miles

Visually I have not found any cracks yet.

**Frchdragon** · 04-29-2015, 06:03 PM

Send the head out to be rebuilt and clean up the block and piston heads, you should be good. I did the cylinder head of my M50 in my driveway, wasn't a bad job.

**kouks** · 04-29-2015, 09:05 PM

Yep, the head is out and ready to send to the machine shop in the morning. I used the process explained at Pelican Parts to remove the cams without damage. The lifters are in their own oil baths and individually marked to go back into their original slots.

I don't remember lifter tick when it was running but some of the lifters I can compress while others are rock hard. How should they be on the M50?

**S61Dan** · 04-29-2015, 10:06 PM

I "think" after soaking in oil for a while they come out stiff but they bleed down and get softer. I know on m54s when you put the lifters in (after soaking in oil) they have to sit overnight or so to "relax" then you can tightne the cams down.

**kouks** · 04-29-2015, 11:06 PM

At closer inspection I found grooves on the 3 cylinder cam support in both the intake and exhaust. The lifter cradle also had grooves and both caps are grooved. The grooves are deep enough to be felt with my nails. I'll show these to the machine shop for advise. Opinions are welcome from the forum.

**kouks** · 04-30-2015, 04:09 PM

Machine shop says cams are fine so they took the head and I'll find out by Monday what work it needs. Meanwhile I'm continuing with the block. Need a new AC compressor (it used to engage the clutch with a loud rattle) all covers coming off for inspection and gasket replacement and cleaning. Replacing mounts, but they still look good after 240,000 miles/20 yrs. Replacing all chain guides.

Can the block be bored? Is this not an iron block with no Alusil/Nikasil?

**Frchdragon** · 04-30-2015, 04:18 PM

If you really want to play around, you can put M54B30 pistons, connecting rods and crank in your engine and make some nice power.

The scratches look pretty deep in your cam.

**kouks** · 04-30-2015, 05:47 PM

If you really want to play around, you can put M54B30 pistons, connecting rods and crank in your engine and make some nice power.

A running used M54 runs close to $2,000, but not a bad idea if I can find one in the junkyard for nearly nothing. I'll research it.

Any updates needed to the DME? Are there threads on the subject? Same M50 head? Will the L30 GM trans handle the extra zippies? Not wanting to convert to a manual since this is going to my daughter when done.

The scratches look pretty deep in your cam.

I thought so too, but the machinist said all that will happen is it will run more oil in the cam supports, he was not worried. My main concern is long term fatigue and cracks. Since I'm not a mechanic by trade, I have limited experience with this stuff and must defer to the experts. Both the owner and the machinist did not seem concerned and both were of the same opinion. Since something caused the scratches, I am obliged to dig deeper into the block and find what caused debris to come up the 3 cylinder only and cause the grooves. If I can find some cams on CL I will probably replace, but the cam holder and caps will either remain, or if I get lucky and find those too I'll replace.

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Originally Posted by S61Dan

I "think" after soaking in oil for a while they come out stiff but they bleed down and get softer. I know on m54s when you put the lifters in (after soaking in oil) they have to sit overnight or so to "relax" then you can tightne the cams down.

Thanks. I know all my lifters in the e38 were stiff when I installed them, but I'm guessing the two days it took me to button it all up and start again drained them just fine.

**Frchdragon** · 05-01-2015, 09:53 AM

I was lucky to get a M54 bottom end for $300. Basically, you are making a S50 clone

You get a good M54B30 engine and install crankshaft, rods and pistons into your M50/M52 block and you will have 3.0L engine with 10.3:1 compression ratio. Then add s50/s52 camshafts and you will have S50us clone. Use your Red label ecu with early non EWS M3 chip, might need a different DME for Vanos engine.

**kouks** · 05-01-2015, 10:42 AM

There are used M54 motors in the LA CL listing for about $600-1000. Has anyone converted and written a "how to" thread on putting in a whole M54 instead? Wondering since these cars are OBD I if the electronic portion would be a nightmare. Mechanically I can fix anything, but when it comes to wires it's all magic to me.

Edit---

Found several threads on the e36 forum. Apparently the S52 has more power than the M54. However, if I did the mod as you described I would keep the same intake and throttle body, would that then be a wash? If I kept the same cams would it just act like an M54? I'm thinking this can get complicated.

**BleedsBlue** · 05-01-2015, 12:16 PM

I have definitely seen M54s swapped into OBDI chassis. That said, I would prefer an S52 over an M54. I would also rank putting the M54 rotating assembly into your M50 over a complete M54. The primary basis for this is reliability, which (IMHO) time has shown the M50/S52 to be more bulletproof than the M54. An M54 swap would also be more complicated.

Other factors: the M54 is all aluminum, and lighter than the iron block S52 and M50. The M54 also has VVT on both cams, the S52 only has intake. The M54 also uses an electronic throttle, but there are existing E36 solutions that replace it with a cable (usually preferred).

The main performance advantage of the S52 over an M54 or 3L M50 will be torque, peak power will be fairly similar for all of these options (220-240 at the crank). E34s are heavy and the more torque, the better IMO.

**Old525i** · 05-01-2015, 07:21 PM

If this car is for your daughter, based on my own experience with mine, they don't care what's under the hood: all they care is that they can move from point A to point B. She doesn't even care if the AC works or not. By the way, I taught mine how to drive my 5 speed 525i. Good bonding experience.

**S61Dan** · 05-01-2015, 09:26 PM

I would be careful with unkown used M54s. They HATE getting hot. If it was overheated at any point the chances of the head bolts pulling threads on the block is high.

**kouks** · 05-01-2015, 09:45 PM

Thanks for the guidance gents.

I like the idea of using the M54 pistons and crank parts and trying to source S52 cams. The deciding factor will be cost and time to find the parts. Also, need more research on the DME required to make this work. I'm trying to at least get it running by summer, then pretty it up. The plan is still a straight M50 rebuild, but if I can find the parts Ivan change direction

Although my daughter will get it for now, it will revert back to me when she goes off to college. The e34 is the driving trainer in our family. After my first daughter overheated it and set in motion this rebuild, I got her an e36 vert. She's taking better care of that car. This daughter wants a Mini Cooper. So the e34 is a right of passage. Why? It's the FUNNEST car I've ever driven and the kids get hooked on the BMW brand after they drive it.

Good advice on the aluminum block. When I removed the head last week on the M50 I broke torque on the head bolts, but then re-torqued them to make sure the threads were not gone. But this is an iron block.

Years ago I trained my wife to drive an IROC Z28 with a stick. She got pretty good at it.

No words yet on the condition of the head from the machine shop.

**Binjammin** · 05-01-2015, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by S61Dan

I would be careful with unkown used M54s. They HATE getting hot. If it was overheated at any point the chances of the head bolts pulling threads on the block is high.

That just makes them cheaper if you're going to be swapping the parts into an m50/m52.