Turbo 6.0 E39

[StolenFox]

Looking good sir! It is funny how the little things can be such time sinks, they are sure killing my progress! Why the change of plans on the heads?


S.F.

[TipsyMcStagger]

I'm finally making some progress...
Reason(s) for taking forever:

LOL...forever is clearly a relative term - as I sit here in Germany and won't be back to FL until December, where it's finally not a million degrees with 1000% humidity in the garage.

Great work as always!

Tipsy

[unnatrl]

Looking good sir! It is funny how the little things can be such time sinks, they are sure killing my progress! Why the change of plans on the heads?


S.F.

I'm not convinced that the heads are the highest of quality, at least for what I intend to use them for on this engine. At this point in the game, I can't afford a catastrophic failure. If it was a n/a daily driver it would be a different issue. The idea of forged engine is to make some serious power. The 317 head is a solid performer for a factory head. As far as repairs go, it isn't supposed to take a whole lot to get them back into shape.

[unnatrl]

LOL...forever is clearly a relative term - as I sit here in Germany and won't be back to FL until December, where it's finally not a million degrees with 1000% humidity in the garage.

Great work as always!

Tipsy

Touché. Not sure which is worse. Being separated from your project, or looking at it everyday knowing you have to wait on a minor part to make any progress. I do believe you are finally going to see some reasonable weather, this means I can live vicariously through you as parts are in route! :-)

[unnatrl]

The injectors are done. Amazing customer service and turnaround time. I don't have the flow sheet in hand, but here's the rundown.

The rated flow is 95 lbs. There was a ~7% variance from the highest to lowest injector on the baseline test. #7 was one of the lower ones. Overall, the injectors weren't clogged (#3 was the worst in this regard). The actual flow at 43psi is 91.5lbs. He said they do flow 95, but it's at a higher pressure (50psi if I remember correctly, 108lbs at 58psi). After being cleaned, all injectors flow 91.5lbs @ 43psi (max variance is 1.5%).

Does his explain the issues with the piston? I don't know. My gut says no. It's good to know that they are all in good shape going forward.

[TipsyMcStagger]

Does this explain the issues with the piston? I don't know. My gut says no. It's good to know that they are all in good shape going forward.

Hmmmm...what are the variables that can be isolated to a individual cylinder?

Going through the process of elimination, if the injector (fuel) and spark (ignition) were not the cause - could the issue reside with the valves and/or springs or possibly the cam lobes for that particular cylinder?

Tipsy

[unnatrl]

Hmmmm...what are the variables that can be isolated to a individual cylinder?

Going through the process of elimination, if the injector (fuel) and spark (ignition) were not the cause - could the issue reside with the valves and/or springs or possibly the cam lobes for that particular cylinder?

Tipsy

The heads are at the machine shop, he is checking to make sure they are ok. If anything looks suspect it's getting replaced.

When I spoke with the Holley tech line, he was very confident that the way I had the rev limiter set was an issue. It was set to cut ignition only. They do not recommend spark only, instead it should be fuel and spark.The problem starts when the ignition goes away and the injectors are still fueling. The consensus is fuel managed to get into the top ring groove. When spark was reintroduced it caused the ring land to fail. Needless to say, a broken ring land will cause issues. As far as torching the piston the second time around, I don't know. It's highly possible the limiter was active longer than the first time. If there was enough fuel in that cylinder I can see the piston melting like it did. Why the other 7 look fine, is still a mystery. A comparison of the plugs (both times) to the other 7 doesn't yield any usable information. They both look the same, except the ground strap is bent. There is no indication of detonation or running extremely lean.

The only other thing left to check is the injector wiring. I'm going to make sure it hasn't rubbed through anywhere, do a continuity check and check the resistance on the wiring in relation to the injector circuits.

[bimerok]

If the problem hides somewhere in wiring it will be very hard to check as it looks like extremely intermittent. Plus it's hard to believe that you never got a misfire code on that cylinder and the only time the wiring "failed" is when you hit a rev limitter.

[unnatrl]

If the problem hides somewhere in wiring it will be very hard to check as it looks like extremely intermittent. Plus it's hard to believe that you never got a misfire code on that cylinder and the only time the wiring "failed" is when you hit a rev limitter.

Absolutely agree. The easy way to fix this is stay off the limiter. :-)

[unnatrl]

Do you have any good underside pictures of the car with the 4L80 in it?
Not saying I'm going that route, just weighing options =)

I'm sorry it took so long, but here are a few pics.

Firewall to bell housing clearance.

Drivers side footwell. It's tight here especially at the shift lever. Required some "convincing" with a 5lb sledge.

Electrical plug required a little bit of cutting on the frame rail. The part that's trimmed out is on the outer sheet metal, there is much thicker metal behind it.

Passenger side clears without much issue. Cooler fittings are banjo style for clearance reasons. A straight AN style will not fit, a 90* style might if you do some convincing.

Another shot of pass side and the banjo fitting.

[StolenFox]

Looks like you had to bend the shifter linkage. How much persuasion did it require? How much room have you got for the lever vs the tunnel? Looks like it's almost touching. I might have found a option for a cable operated shifter. Cable goes out the front of the shifter just like OEM so it might be a good way to go.

S.F.

[unnatrl]

Looks like you had to bend the shifter linkage. How much persuasion did it require? How much room have you got for the lever vs the tunnel? Looks like it's almost touching. I might have found a option for a cable operated shifter. Cable goes out the front of the shifter just like OEM so it might be a good way to go.

S.F.

It's close at the shift lever. The heat shielding is what looks like it's touching, but that's the angle of the picture. The threaded rod (shift linkage?) has a slight bend in it. As far as how much, that's difficult to say. Enough to where it clears. I hate that answer, but it was a slow process. A little at a time until it didn't touch the case, speed sensors, etc. a cable option would be nice! I looked into a conversion for this shifter, but didn't have any luck. Im sure I t can be done, maybe at a later date.

[stix]

This weekends project was making stock shifter work with a b&m cable. It took alot of cutting plastic but it worked out. I will post some pictures in my thread later. My phone was dead and pictures are on my wife's.

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[stix]

Will need to make a boot it was close


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[unnatrl]

Will need to make a boot it was close


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Nice. I like that idea as well!

[StolenFox]

Nice. I like that idea as well!

Agreed, more info please sir!

Transmission in use?
Which B&M cable?
Bracketry at the trans / selector shaft?
Details of the choppy choppy required?

Thanks!
S.F.

[stix]

Agreed, more info please sir!

Transmission in use?
Which B&M cable?
Bracketry at the trans / selector shaft?
Details of the choppy choppy required?

Thanks!
S.F.

Trans is 4l80
B&M 80604 cable part number
B&M 35498 bracket for cable and for selector shaft. (I enlarged the hole in the b&m selector bracket for trans to use the bmw bolt that holds the shaft that moves it, if that makes sense lol I will take a picture to show what I mean. Initially I was trying to use it with the bmw cable but that did not work. I'm pretty sure what I did is not necessary.So you can Ignore that)
As far as the cutting i used a big drill bit and a grinder to remove plastic till the lever could move all the way back anything that didn't let it move and some on the side for the cable. I drilled a hole to run a bolt thru and hold the b&m cable next to where the oem cable was. Not difficult at all didn't take me long. I can point out in a picture where plastic needs to be removed.

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[unnatrl]

Trans is 4l80
B&M 80604 cable part number
B&M 35498 bracket for cable and for selector shaft. (I enlarged the hole in the b&m selector bracket for trans to use the bmw bolt that holds the shaft that moves it, if that makes sense lol I will take a picture to show what I mean. Initially I was trying to use it with the bmw cable but that did not work. I'm pretty sure what I did is not necessary.So you can Ignore that)
As far as the cutting i used a big drill bit and a grinder to remove plastic till the lever could move all the way back anything that didn't let it move and some on the side for the cable. I drilled a hole to run a bolt thru and hold the b&m cable next to where the oem cable was. Not difficult at all didn't take me long. I can point out in a picture where plastic needs to be removed.

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Did you retain any of the neutral safety function when you removed the plastic? I'm not 100% clear on where it was removed from.

[stix]

Did you retain any of the neutral safety function when you removed the plastic? I'm not 100% clear on where it was removed from.

It still functions like stock. I removed most plastic from the back of the assembly, some from the left side for the cable guide to have room but nothing was removed from the front.

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[stix]

Spots where I removed plastic to make it work

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[StolenFox]

Since the B&M cable is 4'-0", I assume you had to s-curve it in order to fit the available space? I wonder if the required shifter travel could be reduced by raising the cable mounting point relative to the shifter pivot? Is that the standard shifter or "tap-shift"?

S.F.

[stix]

Since the B&M cable is 4'-0", I assume you had to s-curve it in order to fit the available space? I wonder if the required shifter travel could be reduced by raising the cable mounting point relative to the shifter pivot? Is that the standard shifter or "tap-shift"?

S.F.

Yes I just looped it and tucked it on top of trans. I beleive the way I have it may be the only way to mount it or easiest ha. It still allows for the cable to run thru the hole in stock location without any cutting, anymore angle on the cable you will have to open it up more. It is the tap shift but it no longer moves to the side the cable does not allow it to .

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[StolenFox]

After the shifter information was posted by "stix" I got to thinking about one of the early E39 non-tapshift shifters. Those units have a much longer throw and a significantly simpler design so they may be a good candidate for conversion to operate the GM transmission. Ran to the wrecking yard today and grabbed one. Will post comparison pics tomorrow.

S.F.

[stix]

That was something I also considered while searching. In for comparison! would love to see if that shifter would work better.

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[StolenFox]

Big difference between available travel. Apologies to Mr. unnatrl, ill post any further discussion about my shifter adventures over in my thread.

S.F.