Laminar's M3 5.0 swap: Fünf-Null

[Laminar]

The brake debacle continues. Borrowed the flare tool from my friend. I tried unscrewing the connection one more time but it was. not. happening. In an effort to save as much line as possible, I used a Dremel and cut through the fittings and line. Probably not worth the 15 minutes and 4 broken cutoff discs to save 1/4" of line. Especially when I remembered that the kit requires about 2.5-3 inches of straight line in order to slide the new fitting on and fit the flare clamp. I straightened out the last bend in the line but it still wasn't quite straight enough to get the fitting back there, and bending it any more was likely going to kink or split the line.



I ended up cutting it off down below, in a place where the hose lined up well at both wheel position extremes. The Mercedes caliper exits down toward the center of the wheel instead of up/back like the stock caliper, so it's okay that I repositioned the hard line connection.

Made the flare, made up all the connections, secured the line in place.



Instead of fighting with the other side, I went ahead and put on the adjustable endlinks for an easy win.



I have a new master cylinder waiting to go on, too. After all of this, these brakes better not be the tiniest bit squishy anymore.

[Tim Mc]

I feel you...hardlines are achilles heel for cars with some salt. Always holding my breath when I break one loose.

Older muscle cars are now supported by companies like The Right Stuff and others. You can buy premade, SS lines that fit like a glove. I think if they don't offer it, they can bend to your sample, if you provide them one. A life saver...not sure if E36 falls into that as of yet...

Love the signature shot!

[Laminar]

The debacle continues to be a debacle. I skipped the tedious Dremel work on the fitting on the passenger side and just cut off the tubing where I knew I wanted to flare it. Hooked up the flare tool, screwed it in and found...the flare mandrel got sideways inside of the tool, the little pin got out of the brake line, and when I tightened everything down it broke the pin off. Cool. So I was able to order an actual bubble flare tool from O'Reilly's for pickup same day and I ordered a replacement mandrel for my friend's tool.

While I was waiting, I went ahead and did the rear brakes.





Threw a little coat of paint on the calipers as they were looking pretty rough before, now they'll match the fronts.

The new tool is not as compact as what I had borrowed, but it worked and I got that line hooked up. Then I went on to swap the master cylinder.



Used the MotionPro pressure bleeder and pushed fresh fluid to all four corners. I haven't started the car yet, but I'm still getting some squish from the pedal, so I'll try and bleed the ABS pump since I ran the system dry when I let the front calipers drain all day and emptied out the reservoir.

[Laminar]

Oh yeah, no pics but I did try on the stock M Contour wheel and it needs a minimum 15mm spacer to fit without hitting the caliper. I think it will work though.

[motorV8ed]

I commend you for your persistent and stalwart efforts against the brake-line ogre and his evil minions!

[Laminar]

Well I was hoping to get the M3 back on the ground so I can get my wife's summer tires down off the garage wall above it, but it was not meant to be. There was a wet spot under the passenger side where the brake fluid initially leaked out when I first disconnected everything. But I noticed it was a shinier, more fresh-looking puddle even though I had already wiped it down. Closer inspection revealed that my new flare connection was leaking. So I disconnected it and there didn't seem to be much flare on the line at all, either I didn't do a good job of flaring it in the first place or when I tightened the connection it just ruined the flare. So I disconnected the line and in the midst of the line actively dripping fluid, re-flared it, ensuring a super good flare this time. Same result, an actively dripping connection.

This was using the correct bubble flare tool designed for 4.75mm lines. The other side where I used only the first step of a double flare connection made for 3/16" lines is still holding fluid perfectly. I get the new mandrel today so maybe I'll try that and see if I can get it to stop puking expensive RBF600.

I wanted to do a bit more rust cleanup under the car but that may get postponed in favor of getting the Blizzaks off of my wife's car.

[Laminar]

Got the new 3/16" double flare mandrel today. Cut the line off, flared, it held perfect.

Of course, by now most of the fluid had dripped back out of the master so I had to order another $40 in brake fluid to re-bleed everything. I also ordered up a couple of unions and I'm considering re-lengthening the brake lines to the original location. I'm worried that without the bends that were in the original piece, the line will be subject to pulling and fatigue failure.

And I've been bad about posting pictures, so here's from Saturday before I realized the connection was weeping. I had to pull out my old computer that has been on the shelf since I last messed with the ABS on this car in 2015, in order to bleed the ABS pump.



Also picked up a new tool on Sunday. I've been using the Ryobi P261 1/2" impact for wheel/tire changes and other duties for a few years now. It's rated at 300ft-lb, but in practice it will tighten a lug nut to just over 100 ft-lb, which is perfect frankly. Where it falls short is disassembly of over-tightened or rusty fasteners. There have been a few times in the last few years that I've had to break out the pneumatic impact - wheel bearings, aforementioned rusty fasteners, and the lugs on my truck the first time I went to take them off. This new one is rated to 600ft-lb of breakaway torque and is quite a bit beefier.





Though it's thicker in the middle (body by Covid), it's actually a bit shorter to better fit in tight spots. So far I've used it to swap winter to summer tires on the daily, no complaints about the performance. I just need to get a feel for the right number of ugga-duggas to get my wheels to spec without having to break out the torque wrench. The old one was nice for that.

[AdamBath]

Got the new 3/16" double flare mandrel today. Cut the line off, flared, it held perfect.

Of course, by now most of the fluid had dripped back out of the master so I had to order another $40 in brake fluid to re-bleed everything. I also ordered up a couple of unions and I'm considering re-lengthening the brake lines to the original location. I'm worried that without the bends that were in the original piece, the line will be subject to pulling and fatigue failure.

And I've been bad about posting pictures, so here's from Saturday before I realized the connection was weeping. I had to pull out my old computer that has been on the shelf since I last messed with the ABS on this car in 2015, in order to bleed the ABS pump.



Also picked up a new tool on Sunday. I've been using the Ryobi P261 1/2" impact for wheel/tire changes and other duties for a few years now. It's rated at 300ft-lb, but in practice it will tighten a lug nut to just over 100 ft-lb, which is perfect frankly. Where it falls short is disassembly of over-tightened or rusty fasteners. There have been a few times in the last few years that I've had to break out the pneumatic impact - wheel bearings, aforementioned rusty fasteners, and the lugs on my truck the first time I went to take them off. This new one is rated to 600ft-lb of breakaway torque and is quite a bit beefier.





Though it's thicker in the middle (body by Covid), it's actually a bit shorter to better fit in tight spots. So far I've used it to swap winter to summer tires on the daily, no complaints about the performance. I just need to get a feel for the right number of ugga-duggas to get my wheels to spec without having to break out the torque wrench. The old one was nice for that.

I bought the same impact as your old one a week before Ryobi announced the brushless one. Don't mind the older one though, it ripped off an axle nut with ease.

[Laminar]

Okay. Got more brake fluid, dumped another bottle into the pressure bleeder, started bleeding. Caliper bled very quickly, then I probably spent half a hour pumping the brake pedal and watching bubbles come up out of the master. Eventually those stopped completely and the pedal seemed to firm up.

I pulled a small amount from each caliper to make sure I was good there, then I set the car on the ground. I’ve always had the problem of a lot of brake pedal travel before it grabs. This whole project was primarily an attempt to alleviate that issue, but it’s actually worse now. There’s just like 2 inches of totally dead no effect brake pedal travel, then suddenly a nice and firm pedal. There’s probably a half inch more travel than there used to be.

I have stainless lines. The master is brand new. The new front calipers can’t move or flex like the old ones could. I’m not dealing with knockback because they never “pump up” or get firm even while sitting still.

Is there something wrong in the interface between the pedal and master cylinder? Could I shim that up a bit so I get response as soon as the pedal moves, but I don’t drag brakes?

It’s cool that my brakes are red now, but I’d like it if all this work had some benefit.

[95maxrider]

I pulled a small amount from each caliper to make sure I was good there, then I set the car on the ground. I’ve always had the problem of a lot of brake pedal travel before it grabs. This whole project was primarily an attempt to alleviate that issue, but it’s actually worse now. There’s just like 2 inches of totally dead no effect brake pedal travel, then suddenly a nice and firm pedal. There’s probably a half inch more travel than there used to be.

I have stainless lines. The master is brand new. The new front calipers can’t move or flex like the old ones could. I’m not dealing with knockback because they never “pump up” or get firm even while sitting still.

Is there something wrong in the interface between the pedal and master cylinder? Could I shim that up a bit so I get response as soon as the pedal moves, but I don’t drag brakes?

I'm terrified of this happening to my car every time I bleed the system. Sounds like there's no rhyme or reason to when it happens, and no resolution once it does. I sincerely wish you the best of luck in getting that resolved, having questionable brakes can really ruin an otherwise excellent vehicle.

[computiNATEor]

I wonder if something else is interfering with the braking performance. Are you still going through the ABS module? Have you tried another one or bypassing it, if so?

[Laminar]

I triggered the ABS pump bleed and cycled each of the valves a bunch, but I haven't tried bypassing it or anything like that.

[computiNATEor]

I wonder if the internal valves are gunked up. Like the ones here -
https://mtechniqueauto.com/

[Laminar]

Interesting stuff, but nothing on the store page for E36 stuff and no mention of what the actual symptoms of a gunky ABS pump are.

At this point the only thing I haven't really changed out is the booster, and some people have claimed this solved their pedal travel issues. I don't understand how, but apparently it has worked.

[Laminar]

Took it for a shakedown run yesterday, no issues besides the excessive travel before bite. It did seem to take quite a while to warm up, it seemed to sit at around 140 for most of the drive, but finally came up to 190 once I got home and let it idle in the driveway for a while.

Drove to work today, the misfire I fought with last year rear its ugly head and is definitely not solved. I'm seeing AFR of 13 on one bank and 16-17 on the other bank during cruise/light acceleration. It used to clear up under acceleration, but on the interstate onramp it seemed to get worse and misfire through the rev range.

I have new coils, wires, and plugs all around. I'll look at those again I guess, check and see if any plugs look suspect. Maybe compression check any cylinders with plugs that look bad. The other thing to do would be swap injectors bank to bank and see if the issue follows the injectors, in case I have one clogged.

Didn't push the suspension at all - I'm on my old RE-71Rs on a 40 degree morning. Don't want to end up backwards or upside down.

[95maxrider]

Took it for a shakedown run yesterday, no issues besides the excessive travel before bite. It did seem to take quite a while to warm up, it seemed to sit at around 140 for most of the drive, but finally came up to 190 once I got home and let it idle in the driveway for a while.

Drove to work today, the misfire I fought with last year rear its ugly head and is definitely not solved. I'm seeing AFR of 13 on one bank and 16-17 on the other bank during cruise/light acceleration. It used to clear up under acceleration, but on the interstate onramp it seemed to get worse and misfire through the rev range.

I have new coils, wires, and plugs all around. I'll look at those again I guess, check and see if any plugs look suspect. Maybe compression check any cylinders with plugs that look bad. The other thing to do would be swap injectors bank to bank and see if the issue follows the injectors, in case I have one clogged.

Didn't push the suspension at all - I'm on my old RE-71Rs on a 40 degree morning. Don't want to end up backwards or upside down.

I recently changed both of my upstream O2 sensors, since one was about 5 years old and the other was of unknown age. Apparently it's recommended to do both at the same time so their signals are as "matched up" (?) as they can be. O2 sensors have an expected life of 100-120k, so if you don't know how old yours are, you may want to consider installing two new ones. It was probably in my head, but my car did seem to run a little smoother after they were installed.

Have you checked for any exhaust leaks in that bank before your WBO2?

[Laminar]

I recently changed both of my upstream O2 sensors, since one was about 5 years old and the other was of unknown age. Apparently it's recommended to do both at the same time so their signals are as "matched up" (?) as they can be. O2 sensors have an expected life of 100-120k, so if you don't know how old yours are, you may want to consider installing two new ones. It was probably in my head, but my car did seem to run a little smoother after they were installed.

Have you checked for any exhaust leaks in that bank before your WBO2?

I fought with that quite a bit last year, as my headers have slip-fit connections that I assumed were leaking. I was able to see a few points where there was some soot on the outside of the pipe indicating a leaky connection. I pulled them off and used a significant amount of copper RTV on all connections to make sure they would seal, I didn't see any soot after that. I've been meaning to calibrate the sensor, as that's recommended every so often. I don't have my Megasquirt set up to actively correct fuelling based on O2 readings, so a bad sensor wouldn't make the engine run any different.

But whether or not the sensor is reading correctly, it drives like it has a misfire. Last year I found a burnt plug wire that seemed like a smoking gun, but apparently there's something else going on.

[Laminar]

I made a new wire, installed it, and didn't even bother test driving.

You'd think I would learn.



Same wire, same place, same problem.

I made a new one a bit shorter than this one so that it doesn't press itself against the header pipe, and I'm going to pick up some of that heat-proof sleeving to go over it.

Reviewing my last video from last year, I'm usually only hitting ~1.1G in the corners. If I go back to when these tires were fresh, I regularly saw 1.2-1.3G, telling me that the tires have fallen off quite a bit.

Left to do before racing season starts in a week:

- Lift the car back up and nut and bolt check everything
- Calibrate the O2 sensor to see what effect that has on the side-to-side readings
- Supposed to get 500 street miles on the brakes before running them hard. I have about 35 miles so far...
- Maybe an oil change? I have a couple thousand miles (and 11 autocross events) on this oil, but it's been two years. Probably due.

[Tim Mc]

You are keeping the spirit alive on the E36 - thanks!

I'd expect a good bedding session on the brakes will be entirely sufficient...

[Laminar]

The documents that shipped with the pads said 500 miles, but their site says 200:

This is simply the pad telling you “ I cannot hold onto the disc at these torques until I am fully bedded in”. If vibration happens you should continue driving whilst BRAKING EARLIER TO BE SAFE until the contact band widens to almost entire disc/rotor sweep at which point the vibration will stop. In street use the torques will not normally be enough to generate vibration during bed in but drive safely for 200 miles gentle brake use to bed in your new brakes and test them to performance in a safe and quiet road environment until you have total confidence that they are bedded. Hitting the brakes too hard, too soon can not only shorten pad life it may cause loss of brakes and an accident. Bed brakes in progressively.

EBC Bluestuff are heat scorched which helps bedding times but you still need to take care especially on the highway and when using on part worn rotors. Use the brakes gently for 200 miles, gradually increasing demand on the brakes in a SAFE ROAD ENVIRONMENT until you feel totally confident and can evaluate their stopping distances in all traffic conditions. Remember, it’s down to you and your bedding-in process.

[Laminar]

Got the heatsleeve installed over the wire, plopped the wire in place, runs great again.

Also went to KC and picked up a new DD.







People aren't joking when they say this chassis is good, the M3 feels like a dinosaur in comparison, and the RX's excellent brakes sure don't help the M3's case.

M3 is still the race car, but with 5 events this year at a location that's an hour and a half away, having a race car with cruise and AC is reeeally tempting. And mpg is probably the same between the two

[computiNATEor]

LS3/525 swap the RX-8, and drive worry free XP

[AdamBath]

I'd love to get an RX8. I had several RX7's and a rotary pickup back in the early 2000s. Though I'd probably V8 swap an RX8, or perhaps do something silly like turbo K swap it.

[Laminar]

I'd love to get an RX8. I had several RX7's and a rotary pickup back in the early 2000s. Though I'd probably V8 swap an RX8, or perhaps do something silly like turbo K swap it.

Definitely doing something silly.

[AdamBath]

Definitely doing something silly.

If you start a thread you'll have to post a link to it here