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Thread: Laminar's M3 5.0 swap: Fünf-Null

  1. #326
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Des Moines, IA
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    I picked up an electric water pump because it was so friggin cheap. Not sure if I'll run it. It's about 2 inches longer than the stock water pump and would reduce my pump-to-radiator clearance from 3.5" to 1.5", eliminating the possibility of a puller setup. Unless I totally redid the radiator mounts again and pushed the radiator forward into the bumper. I don't think it will help my current overheating predicament, but the thought of being able to keep coolant flow high in between runs to get the engine cooled down quickly is very tempting. I'd have to make a new block plate as the Explorer timing cover is a bit different than the standard 5.0. We'll see if it seems worth the effort, though with everything torn apart and coolant drained, now's the easiest time to do it.



    Speaking of fans, I pulled out my collection.



    The top right is the Zephyr fan. It's about 5.5" deep and 20" in diameter, but the shroud fits my 18" radiator height just right. It has a separate PWM control unit (the same unit is used by GM and Mercedes, at least). I have the specs for that unit and could pretty easily drive it with the Megasquirt.

    The bottom is from a Volvo and it's pretty slim - only about 3.75" deep and the fan itself is 17" in diameter. It's 18" high (perfect for my radiator) and it would be pretty simple to trim the sides to the correct 18" width and add rivet on some angle aluminum to help seal. It's also got 8 gauge power/ground hookups with ring terminals - not messing around. Apparently it pulls a steady 25-27amps under full load. The PWM control unit is actually built into the center of the fan. I've found specs on a similar unit, though I'm not 100% certain they apply to this fan. I'd have to do some testing. Also, Volvo had a big recall on these fans for failing capacitors so for all I know it might already be junk.

  2. #327
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    79 323i, 94 325is, 13 M3
    I know you're over there frequently, but this is my go-to post for 5.0 track car heating questions. So few people running these as track car motors, it's hard to get shared experience.

    http://forums.corral.net/forums/road...-solution.html

    I'm doing the heat drill myself these days. Last time at the track I was getting sustained 230s and the weather wasn't even that hot. Or I may have sensor problems. The Ford ECT sensor was reporting 230s to the EEC-IV while the Bosch gauge I installed in the intake was 210, so I put in a new Ford ECT sensor and I'll see what's up next track day. My radiator shrouding/boxing is not elaborate and I need to get after that with some 25 gauge sheet steel and a utility knife. I have installed hood vents too, so I can test with those open and blocked off next time I get to the track.
    If God meant for man to motor-swap LS engines into track cars, He wouldn't have created Corvettes.

  3. #328
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    Thanks for the link! Checking it out now. I'm signed up for a Track Night in America on Aug. 3rd, so this thing better be working well by then. Heads are still at the machine shop and I haven't touched the car in a couple of weeks. Nothing like procrastination - I need to get the new rotors swapped on, scuff up the pads, and replace the hub that I just replaced but is still bad.

  4. #329
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    Okay, so it turns out the junkyard Volvo fan is dead. Into the garbage it goes. I threw the water pump back on after cutting off the threads for the mechanical fan. That gives me an extra ~3/8" of clearance for the electric fan.



    Then I pulled out the Zephyr fan and mocked that up, I think it may actually fit now that the water pump threads are cut down. I'll have to do some work to get it to seal well, but it should move some significant air.




  5. #330
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    Got the Zephyr fan tested. I reconfigured the Megasquirt to take the current traction control slip input value and send it out via PWM to the fan. Works great.



    Did front rotors. At the EVO school the brakes were almost non-existent, I can't take that on track. I hit the pads with the belt sander and slammed the new rotors on. Also did the passenger side inner tie rod. I did the driver's side a month or two back and the passenger side definitely had some play in it that I assumed was because of the bad wheel bearing, but changing out the wheel bearing didn't eliminate all of the play (though it did eliminate the noise/vibration).





    I'll push some new fluid through and also build a heat shield to go between the header and the ABS module. It's not too close and the headers are wrapped, but it still can't hurt.
    Last edited by Laminar; 07-26-2018 at 09:41 AM.

  6. #331
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    Got the heads back from the machine shop, got the full treatment.





    Started smashing everything back together.









    T minus 7 days until track day.

  7. #332
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    Stuttgart, Germany
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    1997 M3 / 5.3
    Most impressive productivity!

    New/refreshed parts are always fun to work with...

  8. #333
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    Got the heads and the intake fully torqued up.



    At this point I'm just waiting for the special spread-port header pattern gaskets, they'll be here Tuesday. In the meantime I went back to the radiator and cooling.

    Did some final trimming on the car and shroud to fit the giant 20" Lincoln Zephyr fan behind the radiator.



    With everything just set in place, no foam around the edges, nothing bolted in, the fan just resting on the radiator, it pulls some air:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bl20vd4H...by=mikaelvroom

    So then I moved on to getting air out from behind the radiator.







    Of all of the shit I've done to this car so far, this is the first really permanent change I've made.

  9. #334
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    2019 Miata RF, 88 325i
    That scoop looks really cool!

  10. #335
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    It's supposed to be a hoodscoop for a Jeep Wranger, I just flipped it upside down. $30 on eBay.

  11. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
    It's supposed to be a hoodscoop for a Jeep Wranger, I just flipped it upside down. $30 on eBay.
    It looks like it was designed for it! Neat!
    Nate J.

    (oOO\ (|||)º(|||) /OOo)
    Titanium Silver/Black Nappa Full 07-18-2001 E39 M5 Heritage (BZ99672). 198,000mi+. Increasing daily. Engine rebuild thread.
    (eŌō\ (||||)º(||||) / ōŌe)
    Alpineweiss III/Black Merino Full 03-26-2007 E60 M5 Manual (CX08265). 157,000+. Dead starter -_-

    RIP, Seabiscuit. Black Sapphire/Schwarz 03-11-2003 530iA Sport (CK39185). T-boned 03-01-2017 at 155,861mi.
    Take 2 "Otto" - Toledo Blue/Sandbeige 04-25-2002 530iA Sport (CH98032). Sold 11-10-2017 at 147,743mi.
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  12. #337
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    Got the radiator final location settled.



    This gives me just enough clearance between the fan and water pump pulley. I may pull that metal fan motor shield and persuade it a bit to give me a little more clearance.



    Got the overflow catch can moved to the other side, I'll pipe in the overflows from both the radiator cap and expansion tank so that I'm not puking slippery coolant all over.



    And of course, pushing the radiator that far forward ending up pushing it into the hood latches.



    I went ahead and ordered hood pins to be delivered tomorrow.

    I figured out why my driver's seat felt so springy on the right side.



    I ordered a Procar Pro-sport seat last week, it should be here today.

    And then I went ahead and replaced the cheap aftermarket keyless system with...another cheap aftermarket keyless system.



    The old one would randomly lock and unlock itself. This was a Very Bad Thing if:
    - It was the middle of the night and the car chirped loudly, waking me up
    - The car unlocked itself while parked unattended with an entire set of spare wheels/tires inside, and my entire autocross toolkit in the trunk
    - I was under the hood 6 inches from the siren and it chirped loudly, deafening me
    - I left the keys in the car and it decided to lock/arm itself

    I was most anxious about this when towing the car, since I had to leave the keys in the ignition to prevent the steering wheel from locking but I couldn't leave the windows down because of weather. I carried the spare remote around to be safe, but when the cure for all of those problems was $30 it seemed like a no-brainer.

    For reference, the unit I originally bought was a "Crimestopper SP-101" and it currently has 4 stars on Amazon, even though 19% of the reviews are 1-star reviews saying that it randomly locks and unlocks itself. The replacement I bought is an "Avital 3100LX". We'll see how it does.

    Header gaskets should arrive today, as should the seat. I need to pick up some heavy duty wiring stuff to finalize the fan install. Hoping to start the car tonight and test drive tomorrow.
    Last edited by Laminar; 08-01-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  13. #338
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    My new seat showed up yesterday, I had the car seat professional test it out for me.



    I got the headers reinstalled then put the valve covers back in place, connected the injector wiring harness, and repaired a broken spark plug wire. I also went ahead and made a heat shield to protect the brake lines from the header that's ~2" away.







    Got the accessories installed, belt installed, radiator and fan installed and plumbed.

    Enjoyed a frosty beverage.



    I swapped out the stock 90 degree Explorer water neck for a 45 degree water neck and made up a new upper radiator hose. Now the hose doesn't go so high up and is hopefully more resistant to trapping air.



    Got the Zephyr fan wired up, including de-pinning the wire that went from the ECU to the stock fan relay, and instead sending it to the PWM module. Loomed the wiring and called it a night around 1am.



    I need to plumb up the expansion tank and install the upper intake and the car will be ready to run. Then I need to install the seat and the front end and I can shake down the car. Friday still may be doable.
    Last edited by Laminar; 08-01-2018 at 10:38 AM.

  14. #339
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    That is an adorable photo. You got this!
    Nate J.

    (oOO\ (|||)º(|||) /OOo)
    Titanium Silver/Black Nappa Full 07-18-2001 E39 M5 Heritage (BZ99672). 198,000mi+. Increasing daily. Engine rebuild thread.
    (eŌō\ (||||)º(||||) / ōŌe)
    Alpineweiss III/Black Merino Full 03-26-2007 E60 M5 Manual (CX08265). 157,000+. Dead starter -_-

    RIP, Seabiscuit. Black Sapphire/Schwarz 03-11-2003 530iA Sport (CK39185). T-boned 03-01-2017 at 155,861mi.
    Take 2 "Otto" - Toledo Blue/Sandbeige 04-25-2002 530iA Sport (CH98032). Sold 11-10-2017 at 147,743mi.
    Take 3 "Manuel" - Toledo Blue/Grau 10-29-2001 530i5 Sport (CE92358). Sold 02-01-2019 at 217,600mi. I regret that. Build Log
    Reliable P.O.S. - Green/gray 1995 Camry V6 LE. 270k mi. Sold for space.

  15. #340
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    As part of the coolant repiping I did last time, I put a bleed location in the upper radiator hose. I further refined that by drilling a hole in a brass plug and putting that inline between the upper hose and the expansion tank.







    I went to fill it up with coolant only to find coolant gush out the back of the driver's side head. Did some research and apparently the Canfield heads may have one or two accessory bolts into the water jacket. I'll have to get a bolt and some teflon thread sealant back there.

  16. #341
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    Got the hole sealed with a bolt, filled the engine with coolant, no other leaks.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bl-iRRag...by=mikaelvroom

    Started it up and it seemed to run great - no leaks, not too many odd noises. Warmed up to temp. I played with the fan PWM curve a bit and based on my settings the fan comes on at 190 and based on the PWM curve I set up the engine will sit right at 192. We'll see how it does out on the road.

    Took the tires to get swapped so I couldn't move the car. After I verified the engine would mostly work, I went ahead and installed the hood latches. Oh no, my perfect hood...





    Then I got most of the way through modifying the previous set of seat brackets I made to work with the new seat. Grabbing tires over lunch and I'll get the car shaken down tonight, then race tomorrow.
    Last edited by Laminar; 08-02-2018 at 09:10 AM.

  17. #342
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    Race weekend!! Friday night was an SCCA Track Night in America event at Dakota County Technical College's driver training course. The event is designed to introduce drivers to on-track driving. No timing or competition, just three 20 minute sessions of hot lapping.

    We figured it was as good of an excuse as any to make it a fun family weekend away, so we took off around 10:30am:





    And with a couple of pit stops for leg stretching and baby feeding, we arrived around 3:20pm.





    I swapped the snow tires off and the RE-71Rs on and went to the novice meeting. After that we hopped in our cars for a few paced laps to get our bearing on the track. Then it was back for the novice briefing while the intermediate and advanced groups hit the track.

    In total, we got three 20 minute sessions out on track. This track seemed like a natural progression from autocross - most corners were 30-40mph with just a few sections over 70mph. Top speed was mid-90s on the long straight. It felt like a slightly faster autocross course, except I got a lot more seat time!

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BmCmjsUl...by=mikaelvroom

    Just a word on the RE-71Rs. I forgot how much I love these tires. They're just so incredibly communicative, so forgiving, and unbelievably recoverable. Once you're past the limit whether it's oversteer or understeer, it takes just the slightest corrective input to bring everything back in line - there's no snapping or sudden breaks, just a gentle reminder that you were going a bit too fast, and an easy ability to dial it back.

    Speaking of tires, I ended up running my street tires, which are 225/45-17 fronts that have a season of autocrossing with too much front camber on them, and my rears were some 12 year old Potenzas that were basically bald from drag racing last year. I ran those old Potenzas for autocross two years ago and they were already totally out of grip. Last year I got a set of four 245/40-17 RE-71Rs that I ran for autocross on my race wheels. This year I got a set of Hoosier A7s for the race wheels so the 245 RE71s have been sitting in the basement. I grabbed two of them and had them mounted to the stock rear wheels, then had the 225 fronts flipped side to side. Even for being skinny street tires, the grip was incredible. Nothing out there (in the novice group at least) could pull away from me in the corners, and the only thing that would walk away in the straights was a GT350 but after a few laps of sitting right on his tail, he finally gave up and pointed me by, and I just ran away from him.

    Some sections of the track were bumpy enough it felt like a bit of rallycross, but that just made it better for me. I have some GoPro video I need to put together with a datalog and post up. It was an incredibly fun track that was just right for my car and for me to step up from autocross.

    So how'd the car do? I finally got the seat secured Thursday night and got out for a test drive around 8:45pm. I got to the end of the block and saw the ABS light was on, when I realized that I forgot to reattach the front ABS sensor after replacing the hub. With that fixed, I went out for a test drive and hammered on the car a bunch and couldn't get coolant temps above 195. I set the fan to come on at 190 and ramp up to full speed by about 210. At idle, the car sat at 192 in 85 degree temperatures. Previously, the car wouldn't get below 205 in 70 degree temperatures, so it was already looking better.

    On track, I saw it get up to about 232 near the end of the first session when it was about 86 degrees and humid out. Definitely hot, but as soon as I got out of the throttle it came down very quickly. I did a couple of laps in third gear and saw temps drop below 220 right away. The second session I spent more time stuck in traffic and got black flagged once, so the engine never got above 215. The third session I saw 225-230 at peak but ended up in traffic again and so temps were typically cooler than that, plus partway though the last session the Megasquirt stopped talking to the tablet so I didn't actually know what the temps were. The nice thing about the new fan is that it can run as long as it's getting a PWM signal from the Megasquirt. So I can shut the engine off but leave the key on ACC and let the fan run until it cools things down a bit.

    I think it's safe to say that whatever cooling issue I had before is solved. I'd rather it not get up to 230+ on track, but I think even the most basic shrouding between the bumper and radiator would help that greatly. I'm not sure if it was one thing that fixed it or a combination of things, but initially post engine build the thing was getting stuck at 215-220 and not cooling down with the fans on full blast and the hood open, so this is a huge improvement.

    Here's what I changed to mitigate the overheating:

    - Heads taken to machine shop - valve guides replaced, valve seals replaced, leak-checked, mating surface decked, valve job
    - Switched from composite 1262 intake gasket to metal 1262S3
    - Switched from metal 1011-2 head gasket to graphite 9333
    - Replaced upper radiator hose with a routing that didn't go as high so it wouldn't trap air
    - Swapped out Explorer 90 degree angle water neck for aftermarket 45 degree water neck so the upper hose didn't go as high
    - Redid heater hoses at the back of the intake and removed the loops that went up high to trap air
    - Pushed the radiator forward to fit a large puller fan and helped facilitate new upper hose
    - Installed 20" Lincoln Zephyr fan and PWM module
    - Cut hole in hood and installed Jeep hoodscoop upside down as a heat extractor

    Of course, not everything was perfect and it wouldn't be an adventure if everything worked perfectly. After the initial paced laps I popped the hood just to check everything and found that my oil cap was loose and some oil was getting on the valve cover. Turns out the grommet that holds the oil cap in place had split and the oil cap was being pulled up by its vent line. When I went to zip tie the vent line down to hold the oil cap in place I realized that one of the t-bolts on the intake tubing was loose, so I had to fix that. Then my new hoodpins didn't want to work properly. They're cheap Aerocatch knockoffs (they were the only ones offering 1-day shipping) and they're just badly designed. Some of the latch mechanism is plastic and has an unretained metal pin, so the plastic flexes, the metal pin slips out, and the thing refuses to latch. I had to use a pick tool to jam everything in place and force each of them to latch every time. Time for a refund on those and to spring for the real thing. I'm pretty sure they're enough of a direct knockoff that the real thing will bolt directly in place. After the second session I realized my shift lever was loose. I keep the correct size allen wrench in the glove box because this has happened before, but halfway through the last session it got loose again so I tried to avoid shifting. Also tires - remember those front tires that were worn on the inside shoulder from too much camber? Near the end of the last session I could feel a vibration in left-hand turns that I thought could be the hub I recently replaced. Turns out it was this:



    Fortunately I flat-tow the car on snow tires to prevent it from getting any traction and pushing the tow vehicle around, so I just swapped the snows back on for the drive back to the hotel

    After my last session I chatted with the facilitator for a while, he has a 328i and his brother has an S54-swapped E36. Then we packed up and headed out. The next morning at the hotel I found that my car had made a friend:



    Also our hotel room number was pretty funny:



    Saturday we spent the day visiting the LEGO store at the mall, riding some rides, drinking beer at Dangerous Man, and playing Rocket League in the hotel room. Sunday we had a lazy morning and headed out around 10. We stopped on the way home for some antiquing.







    Now that I'm home, here's the to-do list:
    - The brake pedal was squishy, but that's normal for my car and like 50% of E36s. I did spend the evening looking into Tilton pedal boxes and manual master cylinder conversions... The rear pads came with the car in 2014 and smelled especially hot when I got off track. I should do something with those.
    - Add some shrouding between the bumper and radiator to actually direct air into the radiator.
    - Block off the plastic piece that used to pipe air from the front air dam to the alternator. Right now it just lets cool air into the engine bay, but I think it's lowering the pressure in front of the radiator and raising it behind, diverting flow from going through the radiator.
    - Figure out some new front street tires
    - Build and install the front splitter. This should also help with airflow to the radiator
    - Replace hood pins with ones that...work
    - Add Loctite/lock nuts to the shift lever so that it stops loosening itself
    - Figure out why the MS stopped talking to the tablet. It would tell me that it could see the bluetooth adapter but wasn't getting a response from the ECU
    - Install the resonators in the exhaust. This thing is loud and could be quieter
    - Take it to the dyno and see what it's actually putting down now

    Overall I'd call the weekend a success, especially since this pile is no longer hogging a garage stall and I can get my daily back in there.
    Last edited by Laminar; 08-06-2018 at 04:53 PM.

  18. #343
    Join Date
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    98 M3/4/5, RIP 528e
    Congrats on getting pretty much everything sorted out, that's a lot of good seat time! I can't believe you were walking away from a GT350!?!

  19. #344
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    Since he was in the novice class we can assume he's not pushing what the car can actually do. Still felt good in my $2500 beater though.

  20. #345
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    Junk hoodpins:



    The plastic mechanism flexes and allows the unretained pin to pop out, then the pin won't latch without using a pick tool to force everything in place. Need to get a refund on these.

    Also used yesterday's eBay 15% off code for some impulse shopping.











    Should fit. Looks like the booster sticks out from the firewall about 4" and is about 10" around. The whole pedal assembly is 8.5" wide and the compact masters stick out 3", so everything should exist inside of where the booster currently resides. I can mount the remote reservoirs anywhere I want.

    Obviously something's going to be a pain in the ass, but I'll burn that bridge when I get there.

  21. #346
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    Here's my super scientific research. Using this spreadsheet, I figured that 100lbs of pressure on the stock pedal with a 1" master is 531psi of line pressure.


    According to this PDF, an 8" booster on a 1" master with 100lbs of foot pressure adds 642psi of line pressure.

    So a 100lb force on the stock pedal theoretically gives 1173psi of line pressure.

    According to that same spreadsheet, using a manual pedal with a 6.2:1 ratio and a 7/8" master, 100lbs of pedal pressure produces 1055psi of line pressure. Increasing pedal force from 100lbs to 111lbs gives 1173psi of line pressure, identical to the power brake system with a ~10% increase in effort.


    I'm very interested to see how this all works.

  22. #347
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    What are you hoping to achieve with manual brakes?
    Nate J.

    (oOO\ (|||)º(|||) /OOo)
    Titanium Silver/Black Nappa Full 07-18-2001 E39 M5 Heritage (BZ99672). 198,000mi+. Increasing daily. Engine rebuild thread.
    (eŌō\ (||||)º(||||) / ōŌe)
    Alpineweiss III/Black Merino Full 03-26-2007 E60 M5 Manual (CX08265). 157,000+. Dead starter -_-

    RIP, Seabiscuit. Black Sapphire/Schwarz 03-11-2003 530iA Sport (CK39185). T-boned 03-01-2017 at 155,861mi.
    Take 2 "Otto" - Toledo Blue/Sandbeige 04-25-2002 530iA Sport (CH98032). Sold 11-10-2017 at 147,743mi.
    Take 3 "Manuel" - Toledo Blue/Grau 10-29-2001 530i5 Sport (CE92358). Sold 02-01-2019 at 217,600mi. I regret that. Build Log
    Reliable P.O.S. - Green/gray 1995 Camry V6 LE. 270k mi. Sold for space.

  23. #348
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    Get rid of the squishy E36 pedal. Pads, rotors, calipers, lines, fluid, bleeding is all good, it's just always had squishy brake pedal. Since my clutch master is leaking again I need to replace it at $80, and I was thinking about trying a rebuilt brake booster @ $120 or new OEM MC @ $660 to help with the squishiness, but that's more than the full manual pedal set and there's no guarantee that any of that would work.
    Last edited by Laminar; 08-09-2018 at 04:22 PM.

  24. #349
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    Gotcha, makes sense. I've always been displeased with the feeling of ABS brakes. My 95 Camry just with a booster has the most tactile brake feel I've experienced.
    Nate J.

    (oOO\ (|||)º(|||) /OOo)
    Titanium Silver/Black Nappa Full 07-18-2001 E39 M5 Heritage (BZ99672). 198,000mi+. Increasing daily. Engine rebuild thread.
    (eŌō\ (||||)º(||||) / ōŌe)
    Alpineweiss III/Black Merino Full 03-26-2007 E60 M5 Manual (CX08265). 157,000+. Dead starter -_-

    RIP, Seabiscuit. Black Sapphire/Schwarz 03-11-2003 530iA Sport (CK39185). T-boned 03-01-2017 at 155,861mi.
    Take 2 "Otto" - Toledo Blue/Sandbeige 04-25-2002 530iA Sport (CH98032). Sold 11-10-2017 at 147,743mi.
    Take 3 "Manuel" - Toledo Blue/Grau 10-29-2001 530i5 Sport (CE92358). Sold 02-01-2019 at 217,600mi. I regret that. Build Log
    Reliable P.O.S. - Green/gray 1995 Camry V6 LE. 270k mi. Sold for space.

  25. #350
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Des Moines, IA
    Posts
    1,051
    My Cars
    '97 M3/4/5.0
    I finally finished up the video of my track day experience:

    Last edited by Laminar; 08-12-2018 at 06:39 PM.

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