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Thread: Laminar's M3 5.0 swap: Fünf-Null

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Houston, Tx.
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    '10 X5, '98 M3 - 302
    Looking good. Car is cool too....
    Sounds relatively quiet but I like the tone. I'm thinking about running a Spintech muffler on mine.
    Definitely digging the dnb.

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    BALTIMORE
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    804
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    98 323
    after watching this, i came to the realization that i've never actually owned a fast car that had a comfy, quiet interior. kind of looks like the only compromise you made with this swap was (probably) worse gas mileage. must be a pretty cool car to daily drive
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Des Moines, IA
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    Since the video I removed the cats/resonators and it's a little louder, but still not bad. Best case gas mileage is about 24mpg highway, typical on the interstate is 20mpg. Typical in town is 15-16.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    BALTIMORE
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    98 323
    hrm... that seems a bit on the low side for an efi car. what rear gear do you have currently installed? is it the m3 3.23 or .15? i forget which it is
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Des Moines, IA
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    Stock M3 3.23 AFAIK.

    http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...?f=134&t=62125

    Seems to be about average for guys MegaSquirting the 5.0. Ford only managed 23mpg highway on the '95 5.0 Mustang.



    This weekend's project:


  6. #81
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    Aug 2008
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    Houston, Tx.
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    '10 X5, '98 M3 - 302
    New slave cylinder?

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Des Moines, IA
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    New master. I put the new clutch in and it required more throw than the old one, so the stock master wasn't cutting it. I bought the flange-mount Wilwood master that everyone talks about here and it was a huge pain to package. I actually looked into it myself and found a much better solution - Wilwood has a body that closely mimics the stock master requiring only a small extension to mount it to the pedal bracket.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Last edited by Laminar; 05-09-2017 at 04:18 PM.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    colton, ny, usa
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    466
    My Cars
    95 M3 turbo V8, GSXR 600
    with my turbo 5.0 M3 and 3.23 diff I was getting 25-27 MPG at around 60mph in town it was bad only because I felt the need to take it sideways on just about every turn. but I think I was getting such good MPGs is because I tuned it with my Sand Alone to get the optimal MPGs when just driving normal at around 55-60.

    1995 E36 turbo v8

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by natem31995 View Post
    but I think I was getting such good MPGs is because I tuned it with my Sand Alone to get the optimal MPGs when just driving normal at around 55-60.
    I have my cruising AFRs around 15.5-16.0. I haven't played with ignition or injection timing yet, though.

  10. #85
    Join Date
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    colton, ny, usa
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    95 M3 turbo V8, GSXR 600
    Quote Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
    I have my cruising AFRs around 15.5-16.0. I haven't played with ignition or injection timing yet, though.
    16:1 is kinda lean. I am running 14.8-15.3:1 but under full boost that drops to 11.2:1. I cant remember what my timing is set at I would have to look at my timing table.

    1995 E36 turbo v8

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Des Moines, IA
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    First autocross of the season.



    Cons:
    - I installed Performance Friction Z Rated brake pads last week but I feel no bite and the pedal still has the characteristic E36 takeup. I have stainless steel lines and fresh RBF600 fluid, I'll rebleed this week, hopefully it helps.
    - I'm not getting much feedback from the steering wheel - there's no difference between grip and push as far as I can feel.

    Pros:
    - I set the front sway bar to full stiff and the rear to full loose for max understeer. I could get the rear loose with a hard romp on the throttle, otherwise it reliably understeered. For the next event I'll stiffen up the rear and feel it out.
    - The Schroth quick fit harness is badass. My arms were dedicated only to steering input and not holding myself in place, which was fantastic.
    - By the fourth run I had enough confidence in the setup to start pushing it to seek out limits of grip. I ended up blowing one corner and still ran the same time as my third run.
    - The engine ran great - I tried a couple different techniques, but ended up staying in first for the initial section, shifted to second during the straightaway, then stayed in second the rest of the time. Plenty of pull from 2000rpm.
    - The new clutch and master cylinder work great, I'm very happy with the combo.
    - Front tire pressure was 37psi, rear was 42psi, and the chalk marks looked pretty good with the full tread used.



    Clearly the weakest part of this combo is my driving. We have a test and tune next month where I'll be able to get a lot more seat time, that will surely help.

    Last edited by Laminar; 07-25-2016 at 02:58 PM.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Des Moines, IA
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    How about an update? It's broken!

    Took it out for another autocross a couple weeks ago:



    During the second run of day two, something went wrong.



    I got the car jacked up and found this:



    My car was done racing for the day, but I got an offer to co-drive and found myself in a familiar cockpit.



    Another '97 M3! But this one was stock. It was a lot of fun to actually thrash a normal M3 since I didn't really get to drive my car before yanking the old engine. He runs Pro C Street and consistently lays down very competitive times, even compared to the modified cars. The way the power came on was very different from what I was used to! I could put it on the floor coming out of corners and let the power build with the revs. In my car, if I give it everything right away, it will just spin, but as revs build power drops. This was the opposite!

    I was able to have my FIL grab a dolly and swing down to pick me up, so I still made it home.



    Here's what happens when the diff is able to move wherever it wants:



    But not anymore:



    Since the diff was out, I figured I'd go ahead and replace the driver's side lower control arm and camber bolt, only to find the camber bolt frozen inside the lower bushing just like the passenger size was. I got the old bushing pressed out, but managed to tear the boot of the new bushing trying to press it in, so now I'm just waiting for another bushing to arrive and I'll try not to ruin this one.

    Here's a video of all of that:



    Have I mentioned the adjustable rear sway bar endlinks that I made?

    Last edited by Laminar; 07-25-2016 at 03:15 PM.

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    BALTIMORE
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    98 323
    what's your take on those "balljoint style" rod ends? are they strong enough to serve as endlinks? i only ask since the ones i've ever seen usually have "not load rated" listed somewhere in the description
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Des Moines, IA
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    The one I bought makes the same claim, we'll see what it takes to break it. Unfortunately my UUC rear sway bar is basically designed to hit the axles or the lower control arms and the adjustable endlinks it came with were hopelessly rusted together by the time I got the car.

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Tyler, Tx
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    '01 740i Sp, '07 335i
    I've glanced at your thread several times thought I would add this, seems like a good time. I installed a 5.0L with the FI into a 2000 Miata.
    I put Suspension Engineering Poly bushings everywhere while doing the suspension. Used Tyco adjustable shocks on all corners and when looking to replace the front sway bar ends - I sourced new adjustable from Moss Miata Performance - they have Hyme joints on each end and are adjustable as yours are - no problems in the first 6K miles. They work well...sorry I don't have a pic and the car is is NJ right now....




    Rear Tranny mount I made for the Tremac 5 speed...
    http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/krallopian/darthSigTest2_zpsn6zkw5id.jpg[/URL][URL="http://www.facebook.com/pages/DFW7-Dallas-Fort-Worth-BMW-7-Series-Club/300942239566"]DFW7 on Facebook/URL]
    "The Last Great e38" 2001 i Sport - Born'd on date 1/01 Cosmos/Grey - 32.8K miles - 2 1/2 " Custom Exhaust, Center “X”over , Modified OEM rear bumper, M5 style trunk spoiler, M6 OEM wheels, M3 Steering wheel with working paddle shift & CF trim, Bi-Xenon upgrade, 13mm Rear sway bar added, SS brake lines and bronze bushings, Cross drilled rotors and painted calipers, Akebono pads, Zionsville aluminum radiator & exp. tank with electric fan, Sprint Booster, BluTooth conversion, MKIV Nav., Custom wood cupholder, DUDMD Tune, Orien V2.5 LED Angel Eyes, Evans waterless. Recently added grey faced //M5 Cluster - all gauges functioning. Changed the grey carpet to black and topped off with GG Bailey front/rear mats[/SIZE]

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    BALTIMORE
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    804
    My Cars
    98 323
    dem hyjaxe
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Tyler, Tx
    Posts
    6,774
    My Cars
    '01 740i Sp, '07 335i
    Didn't mean to hyjack - just commenting on both the 5.0 and durability of hyme joints for sway bars...sorry.
    http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/krallopian/darthSigTest2_zpsn6zkw5id.jpg[/URL][URL="http://www.facebook.com/pages/DFW7-Dallas-Fort-Worth-BMW-7-Series-Club/300942239566"]DFW7 on Facebook/URL]
    "The Last Great e38" 2001 i Sport - Born'd on date 1/01 Cosmos/Grey - 32.8K miles - 2 1/2 " Custom Exhaust, Center “X”over , Modified OEM rear bumper, M5 style trunk spoiler, M6 OEM wheels, M3 Steering wheel with working paddle shift & CF trim, Bi-Xenon upgrade, 13mm Rear sway bar added, SS brake lines and bronze bushings, Cross drilled rotors and painted calipers, Akebono pads, Zionsville aluminum radiator & exp. tank with electric fan, Sprint Booster, BluTooth conversion, MKIV Nav., Custom wood cupholder, DUDMD Tune, Orien V2.5 LED Angel Eyes, Evans waterless. Recently added grey faced //M5 Cluster - all gauges functioning. Changed the grey carpet to black and topped off with GG Bailey front/rear mats[/SIZE]

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Des Moines, IA
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    763
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    No apology necessary! I bet that thing is a blast!

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Des Moines, IA
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    Another Sunday, another autocross event. After replacing my differential bushings and the broken bolt from last month's event, then also replacing a bent rear control arm and frozen camber bolt/bushing, I had the car aligned on Friday and raced on Sunday. It went well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b03EVsF9Gn8

    I requested 0 toe in the front, and -2.0° camber and 0.25° total toe in on the rear. Here's my before and after:


    Obviously it was a nightmare before, having messed with the camber shims up front and replaced rear suspension pieces. Also the last alignment place gave me toe out in the rear when I asked for toe in. That was not good.

    So on Saturday I jacked the car up to finalize a couple nagging issues - one was evening out the camber up front. I added an extra shim on the right side to theoretically even camber side to side. Then I pulled the left rear wheel to stop the terrible scraping and scratching noises coming from what I assumed was the dust shield scraping on the rotor. That was definitely happening, but also the brake pad retaining clip was completely missing. Luckily O'Reilly's had those in stock for easy replacement and some forceful bending of the dust shield moved it away from the rotor.



    I also gave the rotors a quick cleaning with some brake cleaner and a microfiber towel. With that, it was ready for Sunday.



    The Iowa Events Center has a relatively small parking lot as far as autocross venues go, so the course was tight and fairly simple. This was a good thing for me, as I could spend more time figuring out where to go and more time figuring out how to go. After five runs in the 47 second range, I cracked off a 46.8. After figuring out a couple of the corners and reminding myself that slower corner entry means I hit the right line and get a faster corner exit, I knocked out a 45.7, then backed it up with a 45.8 (though I did catch a cone on that one). Actually, the final run was on track to be even quicker than the previous, but I tried to rotate the car mid-corner with a dab of throttle, but ended up making it push, totally flubbing the corner and losing the 3 to 4 tenths lead I had on my previous lap.



    That was good enough to take top in my class, top Prepared time, fastest BMW, and 8th raw time overall. Obviously my PAX standing was garbage (30/50) as XP has a horrendous PAX, the worst of any production-based car. The video above shows the cones I wiggled during that fast run, fortunately neither moved too far from its home and I was in the clear.

    The one issue that reared its head was oil starvation - under hard braking, my oil pressure tended to drop below 15psi. Between the clean rotors, sticky tires, and increased confidence I'm much harder on the brakes than I have been in the past, and it looks like the oil is making its way out of the rear of the pan where the pickup lives. Time to figure something out there, as 10psi of oil is no good when I'm back on the gas trying to pull out of the corner.

    Next week I get to break the Blizzaks out of their summer hibernation and try a little RallyCross!

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Houston, Tx.
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    '10 X5, '98 M3 - 302
    Looks like your car control is improving, cutting it real close to those cones. Well done good sir.
    Are you going to upgrade sways anytime soon?

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Des Moines, IA
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    Sway bars are UUC front and rear. Front is at the middle setting, rear is full loose. Right now the balance is such that hitting the gas mid-sweeper causes it to push, but the right amount of gas on corner exits just starts to bring the rear end around in a really controllable way. If we have a test and tune event sometime I may fiddle with the front bar but for now I think I'll leave the setup as-is and focus on my driving, which needs more help than anything else!

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Herndon, VA
    Posts
    454
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    98 M3/4/5, RIP 528e
    Damn, you got your car out to a rally-x before I did! And it didn't immediately break, congratulations! Are you planning on doing more rally-x or just auto-x?

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    I'll be out of town for next month's autocross, but there's another RallyCross over Labor Day weekend that I'll probably hit up. Gotta scratch that racing itch!









    It was a blast and nothing broke! Fortunately the ground hard packed by the second heat so I wasn't dragging too much as long as I stayed on course.

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    BALTIMORE
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    98 323
    provided your engine is healthy, you're making almost as much torque as the WRC guys, only not exclusively at 4k RPM+

    all i wanna know is how useless the pedal on the right is when driving on dirt with that much torque + 2wd + not-$500-rally-tires
    Popular engine swap weights & stock engine weights
    M42 + trans - 427lbs
    302 + t5 trans - 475lbs
    m20b27 + g260 - 497lbs
    m52b25 vanos + g250 - 544lbs

    351w + t5 trans - 572.5lbs
    LS,
    aluminum block + t56 - 609lbs
    LS, iron block + t56 - 719lbs, EST.
    http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...60-m42-1jz-2jz

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Des Moines, IA
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    763
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    '97 M3/4/5.0
    I left it in second and could spin the tires at will anytime, anywhere. It was a reminder that I still want to try drifting sometime. The course started out as wet grass and my times were in the 90 second range. By the second heat once the course was down to hard packed dirt, I was running in the mid-70s. The fastest times were in the high 60s.

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