tuner pro bin for turbo s52 gt35r 60lb injectors HPX maf 10psi

[dashdarthturbo]

Just to be clear, I will not argue that that this is better than a mega squirt. But it is way cheaper and easier to install. these types of systems are only as good as the people who use them. And yes the documentation is not very good at this point, that is why I am trying to get more people to use it. hopefully the development of this setup will get better and better if more people use it. Right now I am very happy with this system for my setup. And I know if I want bigger injectors, or to run e85, or bigger turbo, I don't have to go buy another tune. instead I can just rescale my maps, and watch my wideband and away I go!

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Can someone send me this tune on a chip

I am not necessarily going to encourage this. My primary purpose is to give people a starting point for tuning their cars. this tune tune works on my car, that has custom intercooler piping made for it. I wouldn't expect this to work perfectly for someone elses car without some tweeking. Go buy the chip and a wideband, and do it right or not at all.

[xTKox]

It's for research purposes

[flyfishvt]

There are plenty of people like myself who would be very willing to share with the rest of the community. We do it already but tuning knowledge seems to be some big secret when it comes to the e36. I'm willing to share but I need a starting point. Jumping from website to website doesn't work for me. I've seen people write a 4 page thread on how to dismantle and rebuild a differential. Complete with pics and torque specs. Why can't someone do something like that to get us all started. It seems like everyone who learns this stuff keeps it to themselves so they can sell tunes and make $$$$. There's an endless list of cheap/free software to get this done. We don't need to share individual tunes. Every setup is a little different. Just show us the basics. Look at the e36 auto/manual swap thread. Hundreds of people contributing and sharing.

So the question is....who will be the first to write a intro to tuning?

[hobbit382]

There are plenty of people like myself who would be very willing to share with the rest of the community. We do it already but tuning knowledge seems to be some big secret when it comes to the e36. I'm willing to share but I need a starting point. Jumping from website to website doesn't work for me. I've seen people write a 4 page thread on how to dismantle and rebuild a differential. Complete with pics and torque specs. Why can't someone do something like that to get us all started. It seems like everyone who learns this stuff keeps it to themselves so they can sell tunes and make $$$$. There's an endless list of cheap/free software to get this done. We don't need to share individual tunes. Every setup is a little different. Just show us the basics. Look at the e36 auto/manual swap thread. Hundreds of people contributing and sharing.

So the question is....who will be the first to write a intro to tuning?

so this maf flows 2411 kg/hr at 5v? are the divisions .02v?

[rowleym]

What are you using for a datalogger? I have ostrich 2.0 and definitely plan to try it out. Last time I gave up and just went MS3

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And this is such bad timing I just found a great deal on a DTA standalone.

[bry195]

oh boy. ostrich is obd1. ms is obd2. is the maf draw though or blow through calibrated? does it work in both configs?

ostrich is an emulator. it acts like the eeprom in your car. it is loaded with a bin file that is the binary file on your eeprom. it contains all the tuning and calibrations plus more. a table has a start point and a stop point determined by the size of the table. you load a file to tunerpro that defines the names, locations, and width of the table. if the file is ildefined or incorrect your changes will not change the car response the way you expected it. I have had this happen. the answer I found (right or wrong) was that there are 3 versions of 413 firmware that are not identical. the xdf does not distinguish between firmware revisions. it failed for me so I abandoned it. the guy who wrote the xdf is hackett I believe. he feels if you ask him questions you are trying to milk him for info and he will not participate. He will chime in eventually and piss everyone off. then you will scratch your head over past postings of him saying how its all out there and available for free and blah blah blah right thing to do blah blah blah scumbag milkers...

ostrich traces the memory locations. it shows you what cell in what map is active at a point in time. this feature is invaluable. if it the trace makes no sense. probably wrong rev or bad xdf. if its in a map that makes sense for the driving conditions you dont have to guess at which map to tune. lastly its in the exact right cell. now you know where to make the change.

if you cannot look at your car while driving it and guess the maf load and rpm you have to guess at the map, change amount, and which cell. so you change 5 cells to see if you are in the ballpark. eventually you see a response that leads you to believe you found your opponents battleship. then you realize each rpm range is say 10 maf values wide. well, that means that each one of those points has to be tuned. welcome to the largest game of battleship ever. ok so now 10 wide and 15 deep per map all without any real data to guide. maf load increases as you accelerate so now you realize the maf has a slope of load/rpm. it results in a diagnol line. the battle ship is not a straight battleship. so then you get smart and create a spreadsheet that defines a slope for say 90% throttle. then you do 70, 50, 30, 10. now your guesses are getting good.

there are 20 scenarios that require allot of thought and motivation. at the end of it you will really know that ecu but it will have taken allot of work. you will discover features that nobody will understand and if you dont take notes, you will forget.

do yourself a favor. do not attempt without something to log pressure/rpm/afr. without this you cannot play battleship. do not play battleship. you need live tracing. I promise it cuts your time down at least 1500 percent. make sure you have no check engine lights. o2 sensor makes things very confusing. make sure the changes you make result in the car changing behavior or you may have a bad xdf or a different rev.

whats the first rule of tuning club? tuning club does not exist.

[bry195]

after you get the car tuned on the emulator. burn a new eeprom with the updated values. pretend like you know nothing about tuning so you dont have to revisit your time in battleship hell. or xdf, maf, injector, cel hell.

[7808]

really wish i knew enough to try this on my car, because im about to drop more money on a chip tune then i did on any other single part, and also equal to half what i paid for the car. more then i paid for the m52 swap with trans !! how far off would this tune be for a obd1 m52 with a s360? enough to get me to someone local that can manipulate the bin? i think i ven still have my moates burn1 from back in the day and maybe a few chips

[e36ALPINE]

Haha @ bry195 , good stuff right there. And no , tuning club does NOT exist! Actually it does for Subaru's and a lot of other platforms. Just not for us haha. http://www.romraider.com/Documentation/TuningFAQ
The only tuning information I've found is for every other car in the world. So first I'm trying to learn how they do it, THEN try to figure out how its actually going to work on my car. I think I'm getting myself into the worse game of battleship ever! haha

[rowleym]

Read up on WIN ols for your XDF creation. That's really the hardest part.

[e36ALPINE]

See I think another problem is there should be seperate threads/sections for obd2 vs obd1. So since this is obd1 I'm probably the one that should stop confusing people haha. I'm sure some of the theory is the same as with tuning any engine for that matter. The basics are the basics. And I think that's what a lot of us need to learn.

[wazzu70]

Good work to the OP! This should help some people with an example tune they can reference and tweak for their needs.

To the leg humpers, anytime someone posts a tuning accomplishment the OP gets a million posts asking them to teach you to tune. Please stop that as its incredibly annoying. You are already getting key information, if you don't know what you have then start reading up on it.

I asked for a tuning forum a while back but I was told it could not work because every car needs a different tune maybe one of the mods for here can get a subforum for tuning adder here.

[e36ALPINE]

Good work to the OP! This should help some people with an example tune they can reference and tweak for their needs.

To the leg humpers, anytime someone posts a tuning accomplishment the OP gets a million posts asking them to teach you to tune. Please stop that as its incredibly annoying. You are already getting key information, if you don't know what you have then start reading up on it.

I asked for a tuning forum a while back but I was told it could not work because every car needs a different tune maybe one of the mods for here can get a subforum for tuning adder here.

I would love to have something to read up on bmw engine management. And scaling for turbos etc. That's what I meant about having to read information that pertains to another brand car because they have stuff about how the tuning process works specific to their engine managment. As far as I know we don't? Also if you know if a good read please share, I have no problem trying to figure this out but don't blame us for asking for help. And maybe if we get really annoying someone will do a write up .....I dare you to do a write up hahaha. I would do one but no one will probably care in 2018 when I have enough knowledge to do it haha.

[wazzu70]

Tuning does not change because of the emblem on the valve cover. Saying there is no BMW specific literature is a cop out. Read up and fully understand how a fuel injection system works, then start reading up on areas you want to know more about. If you can't understand the basics, you have no hope of understanding tuning.

Also techniques that work for other platforms can usually be applied.

[e36ALPINE]

Tuning does not change because of the emblem on the valve cover. Saying there is no BMW specific literature is a cop out. Read up and fully understand how a fuel injection system works, then start reading up on areas you want to know more about. If you can't understand the basics, you have no hope of understanding tuning.

Also techniques that work for other platforms can usually be applied.

Maybe I'm just worried because there are certain people that make it seem like it's next to impossible to tune the stock ECU unless you are a GOD haha. I'm pretty sure I have the basics and understand the theory. Unfortunatly it's just bad timing because there is 4 feet of snow all around me so I can't get started tuning haha. I think we can get more into specifics though. By stating exactly which tables we are modifying, the reasoning, and the end result. The nomenclature is slightly different between platforms. I'm excited to get the ball rolling , that's for sure. Thanks for the comments.

[bry195]

Don't take my post the wrong way. I will off as much help as I can provide. There is nothing that is so difficult that it cannot be figured out. My intent was really to point out what you want or do not want if you are making the attempt.

Live tracing
Patience
Logging
Good xdf

In that order.

[Butters Stoch]

Don't take my post the wrong way. I will off as much help as I can provide. There is nothing that is so difficult that it cannot be figured out. My intent was really to point out what you want or do not want if you are making the attempt.

Live tracing
Patience
Logging
Good xdf

In that order.

Do you have yours up and running on standalone already ? That was fast.

[dburt86]

Learning to tune a in general- not impossible
Learning to tune a stock DME - not impossible
Learning to tune and learning to tune the stock DME - recipe for disaster.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Maybe I'm just worried because there are certain people that make it seem like it's next to impossible to tune the stock ECU unless you are a GOD haha.

To successfully tune a car you need to know what the changes you're trying to make effect the motor (why, when, where, what), and you need to understand the control strategy of the ECU.

OEM ECU's differ vs stand alone ECU's in the sense that there is generally much more going on behind the scenes, calculations, offsets, modifiers that if you don't know these things how will you ever be able to change even just a small portion of the code to reflect the correct output. Also keep in mind there is more then one way to skin the cat when it comes to OEM ECU's.

You can get same/similar results by modifying different maps. One is going to be the right way, the others not so much.

Also without proper logging on the ECU variables, tuning will be immensely difficult especially once you start to get into more advanced ECU's that deal with DBW and TQ based load, etc.

[e36ALPINE]

To successfully tune a car you need to know what the changes you're trying to make effect the motor (why, when, where, what), and you need to understand the control strategy of the ECU. OEM ECU's differ vs stand alone ECU's in the sense that there is generally much more going on behind the scenes, calculations, offsets, modifiers that if you don't know these things how will you ever be able to change even just a small portion of the code to reflect the correct output. Also keep in mind there is more then one way to skin the cat when it comes to OEM ECU's. You can get same/similar results by modifying different maps. One is going to be the right way, the others not so much. Also without proper logging on the ECU variables, tuning will be immensely difficult especially once you start to get into more advanced ECU's that deal with DBW and TQ based load, etc.

Well that's pretty much my point exactly. Everyone says if you don't already know then I can't help you. Hence my "bmw specific tuning strategy" comment. So is it the same as every other car or not ?!? Haha some say yes some say no. On Romraider a TON of maps were defined and verified. I think you guys with more knowledge need to check it out and then comment on its abilities. (Again Romraider is more ms41.2 obd2 stuff which does not pertain to this)

Sent from my iPhone using BF.com

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Well that's pretty much my point exactly. Everyone says if you don't already know then I can't help you. Hence my "bmw specific tuning strategy" comment. So is it the same as every other car or not ?!? Haha some say yes some say no. On Romraider a TON of maps were defined and verified. I think you guys with more knowledge need to check it out and then comment on its abilities. (Again Romraider is more ms41.2 obd2 stuff which does not pertain to this)

Sent from my iPhone using BF.com

The same as every other car? Definitely not.

The same as other ECU's of the same type? Probably similar yes (especially when from the same MFG).

Is it going to be the same as tuning a Honda on CROME? Of course not. Will it be similar to tuning a Subaru or ECO with Rom Raider/ECU Flash? Nope. Possibly in limited aspects yes, but none of the ECU's will have the same control strategy or table look ups.

Defining the "maps" in the ECU is only part of the work. I suppose at that point you can do as much as any other person can do and that is move numbers around (up/down). But knowing why you should move the numbers in that specific map and how that map interacts with the ECU's code is the real key. This is done by either having internal documentation from Bosch, Siemens, etc. Or disassemble of the code in the ECU and mapping out all the features, or having someone who's already done this to write documentation.

The other way is to just dive right in with the proper tools as outlined above and be prepared to give up months of your time figuring it all out for yourself by making small changes, logging and plotting the changes and outcomes until you understand it all to a point where you are confident enough to turn it up and not break your motor

[Butters Stoch]

Seems like consensus (standalone guys) say tuning the stock DME is a real pita.

But yet tuning a standalone isn't that bad.

I think (at least I) people feel tuning is tuning ? And I/we feel the stock DME would give a starting point, ie startup . is it really that much easier on a standalone vs stock ?

[e36ALPINE]

Learning to tune a in general- not impossible
Learning to tune a stock DME - not impossible
Learning to tune and learning to tune the stock DME - recipe for disaster.

My dad said trying to turbo my car was a stupid idea and that I didn't know what I was doing. Both were true, when I brought him for a ride he yelled " OKAY OKAY OKAY THAT's ENOUGH!" haha That was fun. You'll learn that I'm not ALL there soon enough. Then again. Are any of us??? hahaha

The same as every other car? Definitely not.

The same as other ECU's of the same type? Probably similar yes (especially when from the same MFG).

Is it going to be the same as tuning a Honda on CROME? Of course not. Will it be similar to tuning a Subaru or ECO with Rom Raider/ECU Flash? Nope. Possibly in limited aspects yes, but none of the ECU's will have the same control strategy or table look ups.

Defining the "maps" in the ECU is only part of the work. I suppose at that point you can do as much as any other person can do and that is move numbers around (up/down). But knowing why you should move the numbers in that specific map and how that map interacts with the ECU's code is the real key. This is done by either having internal documentation from Bosch, Siemens, etc. Or disassemble of the code in the ECU and mapping out all the features, or having someone who's already done this to write documentation.

The other way is to just dive right in with the proper tools as outlined above and be prepared to give up months of your time figuring it all out for yourself by making small changes, logging and plotting the changes and outcomes until you understand it all to a point where you are confident enough to turn it up and not break your motor

I couldn't agree more. And I also believe that with a few people working towards the same goal we will get it. Just like a LOT of other people have done decades ago. It's going to be hard with weather/kids/free time but I will put in as much effort as I can. I'm with the OP. If I decide tomorrow I want 110lb injectors and E85 I don't want to have to spit out even more $$$$$ then I already have.

Seems like consensus (standalone guys) say tuning the stock DME is a real pita.

But yet tuning a standalone isn't that bad.

I think (at least I) people feel tuning is tuning ? And I/we feel the stock DME would give a starting point, ie startup . is it really that much easier on a standalone vs stock ?

That's what I mean, I think the "tuning is tuning" people need to start tuning the stock DME and let us know if they are still correct =). Again, you won't do it........you totally won't do it.........haha. I'm the first one to say that I'm not sure if it is. I just wish the weather was better in New England so I can start and give more appropriate feedback!

[7808]

crome was awesome. made it so almost anyone with basic knowledge could figure out tuning

[wazzu70]

Seems like consensus (standalone guys) say tuning the stock DME is a real pita.

But yet tuning a standalone isn't that bad.

I think (at least I) people feel tuning is tuning ? And I/we feel the stock DME would give a starting point, ie startup . is it really that much easier on a standalone vs stock ?

OEM tuning just is less straightforward. As NotoriousVR has said there are many maps in the stock ECU that need to work together. You need to understand the tables and relationships between them to make changes correctly. The standalone is much more straightforward. Everything is labeled, and you don't have a bunch of extra maps for emissions compliance, ect that are not really necessary.

The same principals apply, the OEM ecu is more like a winding road. This is especially true the more modern you get.


On our ECU we have 10s of thousands of variables. Most of them are related to OBD monitors/emission compliance. Very few have anything to do with making the engine run.