State of the mod: M5 cluster -> 540 (yes, I've read the old threads)

[Redshift]

Updated the thread to better suit the new information we have that this now works. Extra special thanks to terra and blackknight for their dedication, selflessness, and willingness to further help the community of us E39ers out there.

Great people and great results! See images several pages down the thread for more, but we do have this working including the proper warm up light turn on/off sequence and the proper, accurate oil temperature gauge.

[blackknight530i]

The state of the mod is this... unless you have a S62, you will not have the oil temp lights without making some kind of custom microcontroller to handle them. As for the oil temp gauge, a mod has to be made to the ME7.2 to turn on oil temp over CAN bus. This requires modifying the program section of the DME, not the data section which is much easier, and I think requires a BDM interface to the DME, unless someone has figured out some other way and isn't sharing it.

That being said, I have a M5 cluster in my 03 530i, which does have oil temp over CAN turned on and the oil temp gauge works perfectly. I also replaced the M35080 chip and matched the mileage to the rest of the car. The only thing that doesn't work on mine is the oil temp lights, but I've read about some CAN messages you can send over the CAN bus that will light them up in differing amounts. This translates to someone who can write some code for an arduino or something can make a program that monitors the oil temperature and send a different CAN message based on a set temperature. Someone this talented could also install an oil temperature sender and tie it into it and send the temp over CAN separate from the DME, but it wouldn't be as elegant. The only person I know that I think can modify the program section of the ME7.2, is DUDMD. You will probably have to send the DME to him to be modified though. Some people have tried using the X5 4.6is DME program and then flashing the 540i tune over it, but with varying degrees of success.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure that is the current state of the mod.

[TerraPhantm]

Oil temp should work on both M62(TU?) and M54 if you have the latest DME software. Old versions did not transmit oil temperature over the can-bus. The RPM lights are controlled by the DME. It is possible to enable on the M62TU since the X5 4.6 had those lights. However, I am not sure where the configuration byte is located.

I don't think the program section would have to be modified (X5 4.6 uses same program section as the 4.4 and 540), but regardless, it is possible to modify that with OBD tools. Might have to put the DME in boot mode

Edit: Actually they apparently don't have the same program version (looks like 540iT has newer software? 540i sedan software should still work), but I think it will still work. Only way to know for sure is to either try it or sniff the can-bus and see what's going on.

Does anyone know at what temperatures the 4 zones turn off at in the X5 4.6? Are they the same temperatures as in the M5?

[blackknight530i]

Oil temp should work on both M62(TU?) and M54 if you have the latest DME software. Old versions did not transmit oil temperature over the can-bus. The RPM lights are controlled by the DME. It is possible to enable on the M62TU since the X5 4.6 had those lights. However, I am not sure where the configuration byte is located.

I don't think the program section would have to be modified (X5 4.6 uses same program section as the 4.4 and 540), but regardless, it is possible to modify that with OBD tools. Might have to put the DME in boot mode

Edit: Actually they apparently don't have the same program version (looks like 540iT has newer software? 540i sedan software should still work), but I think it will still work. Only way to know for sure is to either try it or sniff the can-bus and see what's going on.

Does anyone know at what temperatures the 4 zones turn off at in the X5 4.6? Are they the same temperatures as in the M5?

Good to know Terra! I wasn't aware anyone with a 540i tune was able to get them to work.

From what I understood, the reason people that flashed the X5 4.6is program got it to work was they flashed the program section of the X5, then the 540i tune, leading me to think that the modification was in the program section.

Anyways, as to the CAN information on the temp lights, check out this thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...project/page24 and post #590. You can use that message to lightup whichever lights you want. Obviously, it refers to an e46, but I would think it would work for us as well. Here are the temps for the M5 lights: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ml#post2866921.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's another interesting thread that is still being updated: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1979316-Complete-E46-LS1-guage-solution-using-OBDII-to-Can-signals

[Redshift]

Good info guys. I'm going to end up having mine flashed back to stock shortly because VF can't over-write my current Dinan tune. So I assume I will end up with the absolute latest/greatest software BMW has to offer. I don't want to go through a huge hassle to get oil temp working but a minor hassle would be fine. I'm still having trouble with finding someone to help with programming locally, even for the steering box (I'm sure I can figure it out but I don't want to fry anything in the process). Maybe I'll hold on to the cluster for a bit and see if I find anyone.

[TerraPhantm]

Good to know Terra! I wasn't aware anyone with a 540i tune was able to get them to work.

From what I understood, the reason people that flashed the X5 4.6is program got it to work was they flashed the program section of the X5, then the 540i tune, leading me to think that the modification was in the program section.

Anyways, as to the CAN information on the temp lights, check out this thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...project/page24 and post #590. You can use that message to lightup whichever lights you want. Obviously, it refers to an e46, but I would think it would work for us as well. Here are the temps for the M5 lights: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ml#post2866921.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's another interesting thread that is still being updated: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...to-Can-signals

Hi

Well I did some digging, and it looks like some 540 tune use the same program version as the 4.6, so this should definitely be possible. And I've also heard of NickG enabling it, so it's in there somewhere. I know what the can messages look like and the temperature ranges in the M5. What I don't know is if the X5 turns the lights off at the same temperatures.

The can message is basically the same as the E46, but there are only 4 addressable lights rather than 7 like on the E46. The last 3 temperatures are ignored

[Redshift]

Hi

Well I did some digging, and it looks like some 540 tune use the same program version as the 4.6, so this should definitely be possible. And I've also heard of NickG enabling it, so it's in there somewhere. I know what the can messages look like and the temperature ranges in the M5. What I don't know is if the X5 turns the lights off at the same temperatures.

The can message is basically the same as the E46, but there are only 4 addressable lights rather than 7 like on the E46. The last 3 temperatures are ignored

I'd be fine with the RPM lights not perfect, as long as oil was accurate. I use that as my "ok to go WOT" gauge anyway, not the RPM lights. Only when oil is at 160 or higher will I get up in the mid to upper RPM ranges.

I'm also talking to P3 about their vent gauges. Those look fantastic.

[blackknight530i]

Hi

Well I did some digging, and it looks like some 540 tune use the same program version as the 4.6, so this should definitely be possible. And I've also heard of NickG enabling it, so it's in there somewhere. I know what the can messages look like and the temperature ranges in the M5. What I don't know is if the X5 turns the lights off at the same temperatures.

The can message is basically the same as the E46, but there are only 4 addressable lights rather than 7 like on the E46. The last 3 temperatures are ignored

My guess is that the temps would probably be different in the X5 since it likely uses the same thermostat as the normal M62TUb44 and runs at a warmer normal operating temp, but I don't know for sure. The question is whether anyone has seen the code in the 4.6 DME to send that data to the cluster. Obviously, the MSS52 and MSS54 are much more open now and it's easier to find that data. I don't have any experience with the code in the MS43 or ME7.2. I figure the MS43 won't have a chance in hell of getting the lights working, but the ME7.2 could. I thought that when people ran the X5 program and 540i tune that the lights still didn't work, but the oil temp gauge did. Wouldn't that imply that the code is in the data section for the lights?

[TerraPhantm]

My guess is that the temps would probably be different in the X5 since it likely uses the same thermostat as the normal M62TUb44 and runs at a warmer normal operating temp, but I don't know for sure. The question is whether anyone has seen the code in the 4.6 DME to send that data to the cluster. Obviously, the MSS52 and MSS54 are much more open now and it's easier to find that data. I don't have any experience with the code in the MS43 or ME7.2. I figure the MS43 won't have a chance in hell of getting the lights working, but the ME7.2 could. I thought that when people ran the X5 program and 540i tune that the lights still didn't work, but the oil temp gauge did. Wouldn't that imply that the code is in the data section for the lights?

Yes, that does suggest there is a switch in the data section, which is why I want to know what the X5 temperatures are. If I know the values, I could possibly track them down in the data section, which would help me identify where the program deals with those lights, and then locate the on/off switch.

Probably is no chance to get them working on the MS43 unless BMW was kind enough to program the routine in there. Wouldn't be impossible to write a routine that deals with the lights, the logic is simple enough. Probably easier to have an arduino intercept the can messages and work with the lights

[blackknight530i]

Yes, that does suggest there is a switch in the data section, which is why I want to know what the X5 temperatures are. If I know the values, I could possibly track them down in the data section, which would help me identify where the program deals with those lights, and then locate the on/off switch.

Probably is no chance to get them working on the MS43 unless BMW was kind enough to program the routine in there. Wouldn't be impossible to write a routine that deals with the lights, the logic is simple enough. Probably easier to have an arduino intercept the can messages and work with the lights

We need someone with a X5 4.6 and INPA to record the temps when they go out.i would bet they are at even temp breaks like the M3 and M5. I would also bet that there is some overlap on the higher temps, so you could look for the hex for 60 degrees C or something and see if you find any similar ones around it.

Could the whole routine be written in the data section of the ms43, or would it need to be in the program section? I may do the arduino myself, but it would be cool if it could be done without added hardware.

[TerraPhantm]

It would have to be done in the program section. It would also have to be written completely in assembly language, and I'm not really as familiar with the C167 used in the MS43 (though good news is that the ME7.2 uses the same CPU, so you could probably model the routine after the one in the ME7.2)

[Schitzo]

Yes, that does suggest there is a switch in the data section, which is why I want to know what the X5 temperatures are. If I know the values, I could possibly track them down in the data section, which would help me identify where the program deals with those lights, and then locate the on/off switch.

I think we now know enough to make an educated guess as to what the temp values are on the X5.
We know the oil temp in C is

Temp (C) = Hex2Dec - 48

We also know the tach lights change in 10C increments so assuming the last LED goes out at 60, 70, or 80C, the respective values would be

 6C 62 58 4E 44 3A 30 
 76 6C 62 58 4E 44 3A
 80 76 6C 62 58 4E 44

I think searching for the sequence in bold should be a good starting point. No?

[TerraPhantm]

I think we now know enough to make an educated guess as to what the temp values are on the X5.
We know the oil temp in C is

Temp (C) = Hex2Dec - 48

We also know the tach lights change in 10C increments so assuming the last LED goes out at 60, 70, or 80C, the respective values would be

 6C 62 58 4E 44 3A 30 
 76 6C 62 58 4E 44 3A
 80 76 6C 62 58 4E 44

I think searching for the sequence in bold should be a good starting point. No?

Is the temperature definitely x-48 in the M62 software? tool32 seems to indicate it's .75x - 48 unlike the S62 and S54.

In any case, despite what it looks like in the software, the M5 only uses 4 temperatures: 6c, 62, 58, 44 (or 60, 50, 40, and 20 degrees C respectively). Based on this picture, I'm not sure the M62 follows the same curve:



Edit:

I found the locations of the oil temps (0xA87C in all data sections that have program version 7532675). Thing is, the non-4.6 binaries already have temperatures (albeit different temperatures) in that location. So there is probably a switch somewhere that turns the can message on, and I guess I need to find

For whatever it's worth, these are the temperatures (in celsius):

	5500	5000	4500	4000
4.6	54.75	50.25	45	35.25
4.4	69	60	51	39
S62	60	50	40	20

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Okay I think I have it figured out. Anyone here with a 540i and an M5/4.6is cluster that wants to test it out?

[Redshift]

I don't have the M5 cluster installed but will be happy to test if you want to walk me through how to try this.

[TerraPhantm]

Do you have something you can use to read and flash software to your DME? MPPS or Galetto I guess?

[Redshift]

I don't, and wish I did. It has a Dinan tune and I need to flash it back to stock before the Hex cable from VF will work on it.

[blarf]

Do you have something you can use to read and flash software to your DME? MPPS or Galetto I guess?

You could confirm the temp coefficients without reading the software, no? Or is the oil temp not part of the self-test menu on the non-M clusters?

[TerraPhantm]

You could confirm the temp coefficients without reading the software, no? Or is the oil temp not part of the self-test menu on the non-M clusters?

I don't have a 540

[blackknight530i]

I don't have a 540

If you could make this happen on a MS43, I could test it.

[TerraPhantm]

So the more I look at it, I think it's more a matter of being on the right program version than anything else. Though unless you change them, the temperatures will be different than a 4.6. Try one of these flashes with WinKFP

540iA USA MY02+ - 7529052
540iA USA MY01 - 7533615

540iA CAN MY02+ - 7529054
540iA CAN MY01 - 7533617

540i6 USA/CAN MY02+ - 7533592
540i6 USA/CAN MY01 - 7533611

I think the MY02+ versions are the 290hp versions. If there's no hardware difference between the engines, you may as well flash that variant. The automatic versions listed above are the sport versions - I think the difference compared to non-sport is that it raises your speed limiter.

[blackknight530i]

So the more I look at it, I think it's more a matter of being on the right program version than anything else. Though unless you change them, the temperatures will be different than a 4.6. Try one of these flashes with WinKFP

540iA USA MY02+ - 7529052
540iA USA MY01 - 7533615

540iA CAN MY02+ - 7529054
540iA CAN MY01 - 7533617

540i6 USA/CAN MY02+ - 7533592
540i6 USA/CAN MY01 - 7533611

I think the MY02+ versions are the 290hp versions. If there's no hardware difference between the engines, you may as well flash that variant. The automatic versions listed above are the sport versions - I think the difference compared to non-sport is that it raises your speed limiter.

Who has a 540i and M5 cluster and is able to test this?

[blarf]

I don't have a 540

Well I have a 540 and an M5 cluster (preface, HW 13). The only catch is that it's got a Dinan tune so I don't know how the program itself will differ from the stock BMW one.

[blackknight530i]

Well I have a 540 and an M5 cluster (preface, HW 13). The only catch is that it's got a Dinan tune so I don't know how the program itself will differ from the stock BMW one.

The Dinan part is just a tune on top of the BMW software, but it may be based on an older bmw program. Updating to a newer bmw program might render the Dinan tune useless, unless you can get Dinan to tune it based on the new program.

[TerraPhantm]

The Dinan part is just a tune on top of the BMW software, but it may be based on an older bmw program. Updating to a newer bmw program might render the Dinan tune useless, unless you can get Dinan to tune it based on the new program.

It doesn't necessarily have to be an outdated program either. For reasons I don't quite understand, BMW has a program with a higher version number and newer build date that does not have the oil light code, and it appears to have been used on some 540s, but not all. Did some earlier E39s not use the CAN-bus or something?

[Reefin Dude]

RedShift- i have working versions of DIS, INPA, and others on my car PC if you would like to borrow or play around with it at some point. i unfortunately only have the very basic knowledge of how to use it.

G~