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Thread: NBT/CIC/CCC retrofit in E39/E38/E53

  1. #76
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    Here is my idea for how to mount it:
    2015-01-31 17.32.56.jpg

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toushi View Post
    Here is my idea for how to mount it:
    That was one of the ideas I thought about too. I figured you could easily mount on of the F10 10.25" screens there. Then modify an e90 bezel to fill the MID/CD location and then you could still have access to the CD/DVD player/changer (I think they are 6-disk changers, but I could be wrong). You would also have the direct volume control knob and number buttons accessible that way, instead of having to go through the menu system or steering wheel controls to change the volume. The problem will be making it look like it came from the factory that way. Some of the bezels shown above by MJ and some of the ones I've seen on the Russian forum really do look factory. The idrive controller shouldn't be too difficult to mount, especially if you can pick up a used or broken used e90, e60, e70 center console panel for cheap to make a template out of. Once you cut the hole, it has a lip on the controller that covers the edges, so it doesn't need to be absolutely perfect. As long as you can do it without covering the shifter trim, it will look like it came that way. Fortunately for the e53 people, and probably e46 as well, they have a cup holder location that can be recovered and made to work, minus a cup holder. The e38 and e39 people will likely have to either relocate the central locking and hazard switch or mount it to the right of the shifter, which may or may not be very ergonomic.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
    Keep in mind, this system is still pretty expensive (the reason I haven't undertaken it yet). The Ibus to NBT adapter is around $350-400, plus the NBT system itself can be around $700+, and then add in the cables which can be another couple hundred. It starts adding up quickly. Then, you still have basic e38, e39, e53, E46 speakers and amps. Not trying to detract people away from this, just keep in mind what it might cost. That being said, putting the new system in and doing all the maintenance on your car might make you feel like you bought a new car, so see what it's worth to you.
    Yeah, I'm half tempted to go the CIC route with the parts out of the e65 (do I have that right?), just because I see the parts go cheaply on eBay.
    Current:
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    Past:
    2003 325xi
    2001 740iL
    1993 740iL

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonatrbo View Post
    Yeah, I'm half tempted to go the CIC route with the parts out of the e65 (do I have that right?), just because I see the parts go cheaply on eBay.
    Yeah, CIC is a bit cheaper, but the components aren't integrated like the NBT, so there is a bit more wiring and you'll then be using the MOST bus. You'll also need a different adapter, Ibus to CIC, but it probably costs about the same.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  5. #80
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    Where you finding NBTs for $700? Im seeing $1500-2000. Could a a NBT from Europe work? The ibus/nbt adapter codes everything right? I would just need the USA maps.
    Spaceships & Woodgrain.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
    Where you finding NBTs for $700? Im seeing $1500-2000. Could a a NBT from Europe work? The ibus/nbt adapter codes everything right? I would just need the USA maps.
    It should work. You'll need to change the settings and load the US maps.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonatrbo View Post
    Yeah, I'm half tempted to go the CIC route with the parts out of the e65 (do I have that right?), just because I see the parts go cheaply on eBay.
    E65s never came with CIC. They came with an iteration of iDrive that's even crappier than the CCC. It is by far the worst system I have ever used in any car

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonatrbo View Post
    Nice. I ran CentraFuse on my last carPC, but I put a Lilliput touch screen in the dash.
    Mine is also touchscreen (Samsung) and ALL buttons on boardmonitor and steering wheel are 100% functional with Centrafuse.

    It's just that some CF apps now are not supported anymore.

    To OP.....Sorry to hijack and OOT.
    Last edited by Jopecasa; 01-31-2015 at 09:09 PM.
    01 E39 530i - SOLD !
    05 E53 4.8is


    Pics of Bianca (E39) and Betsy (E53)

  9. #84
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    I saw a f30 nbt system screen, unit, and control go for 500ish on ebay....

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toushi View Post
    I saw a f30 nbt system screen, unit, and control go for 500ish on ebay....
    Yeah, I found about a dozen at the $900 price point. With some patience I'm sure they can be had a lot cheaper.

    Can we start a master list of part numbers or year/model numbers that have the NBT system? It would make it much easier to find the poorly listed parts that tend to go cheaper.
    Current:
    2009 xdrive35D

    Past:
    2003 325xi
    2001 740iL
    1993 740iL

  11. #86
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    Will my 6 disc CD player in the trunk still work?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don corns View Post
    Will my 6 disc CD player in the trunk still work?
    No. You could get a NBT changer though and hook up the fiber optic cables.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don corns View Post
    Will my 6 disc CD player in the trunk still work?
    Why do you need a CD changer? NBT plays loss less music from USB stick and also music treaming via Bluetooth.
    Music played from CD drive and USB can also be recorded on the local hard drive.
    Absolutely no need for a CD Changer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ DOOM View Post
    ...The ibus/nbt adapter codes everything right? I would just need the USA maps.
    No adapter does not code anything, it enables navigation (Which is normally disabled if the car VIN does not match the NBT VIN. It also translates CAN messages to iBUS and vice versa, allows the unit to start (Won't start without CAN messages)...
    If the unit is coded from factory to TOP HIFI Logic7, you won't even get sound. That's why earlier on I said you need BMW E-SYS in order to code the unit properly. You will also need to have a working RJ45 port connected to the NBT in order to code it.
    Last edited by BMWPlanetDude; 02-01-2015 at 05:13 AM.
    BMW OSS Master - BMW Coding, flashing, and NBT/CIC retrofits for breakfast.
    Founder of BMW Planet, serving wiring diagrams to BMW enthusiasts and independent garages all over the world since 2008

  14. #89
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    Well I only listen to CDs and I like to have my changer full at all times. So I would have to replace my CD player with a 6cd changer that is compatible with the nbt unit? I assume I would have to figure out if this fit in my current changers spot without heavy mods. Also I would have to rewire it from the dash to the trunk with new fiber optic cables?

  15. #90
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    So what other coding is needed besides "Top Hifi"?
    Spaceships & Woodgrain.

  16. #91
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    Is there any compatibility between the ccc/cic and NBT displays?
    Current:
    2009 xdrive35D

    Past:
    2003 325xi
    2001 740iL
    1993 740iL

  17. #92
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    I need to know where to get this adapter and the parts, I have cash waiting that I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the OEM nav retrofit for my 750, but now, I want this. If anyone has links please share, if you are a vendor for the items please PM me, I want to do this RIGHT NOW!

    Thanks
    Dave

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by //m320is View Post
    I need to know where to get this adapter and the parts, I have cash waiting that I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the OEM nav retrofit for my 750, but now, I want this. If anyone has links please share, if you are a vendor for the items please PM me, I want to do this RIGHT NOW!

    Thanks
    Dave
    So, I thought BMWPlanetdude would chime in with more details, but here's a list of the basic parts you'll need:

    HU NBT - This is the main CIC unit that has the DVD drive, Sirius, BT, etc. all integrated in it.

    CID - This is the NBT monitor that in most retrofit kits is included, but if you're piecing it together will need to be NBT and not the older CIC or CCC monitors. I think those can work, but you will need a custom cable to do so.

    Controller - Apparently this can be either a CIC or NBT controller. The NBT controllers can also be the ones that have touch capability, but I don't know if there is an additional touch module that needs to be included as well or not.

    Monitor Cable - All of the genuine monitor cables for NBT and CIC are short, like 1m or less, so the guys in Russia that have been installing these in their X5's used the 4.5m USB cable (same HSD type) and shaved off the key tabs so that it would plug into the monitor socket, then wired an additional two wires for the power supply to the monitor. The part number is 61 11 9 183 946. If you are attempting to mount the NBT unit in the dash, you can stick with the oem short cable, but I don't have a part number for it.

    Then you need the most important part to make it work, which is the Ibus to NBT adapter. Only one company makes one and they charge about $350-400 for it, depending on how many people are ordering them. Group buys will bring the price down. In the first post of this thread, I linked to it, but here it is again: http://carsystems.com.ua/bmw-product...fit-adapter-en. You will need to go to their distributors page to find where to order it, but BMWplanetdude is the UK/Ireland distributor for it, so I'm hoping he'll post more details on how to get it here for you guys. I have also spoken to Adrian at customretrofit.ro (Adrian@customretrofit.ro) who is the Romanian contact and apparently well known with custom BMW retrofits and he can also supply the USA with these for about the same price as BMWPlanetdude.

    Last is the various antennas for Sirius, AM/FM, Bluetooth, etc. and the USB cables. The Sirius antenna can be any off the shelf Sirius antenna or a factory one, it makes no difference. The AM/FM, I'm not sure of since I don't use it myself, but I'm sure there is a cable out there that will work since it's just a standard RF cable going to our antenna boosters in the C pillars. The Bluetooth antenna should just be the same as what you would plug into a Bluetooth TCU, so those should be easy to find in different lengths of cable depending on your application and the antenna is the same. The USB cables are the same as what I linked above for the monitor cable, but you can get these in several different lengths depending on where you want to run the USB cable. You will also need to buy the USB jacks as well and again, this depends on where you are putting them so I don't have part numbers, but you should be able to find them easily.

    As for the monitor bezel and mounting of the NBT unit, you're on your own. Nobody that I know of is selling a premade one for this retrofit. In this day of 3d printing, it shouldn't be hard to make one. You can base it off of a standard 16:9 trim and make a cleaner look on the inside edges of it. Mounting the NBT in the trunk will require some custom brackets since the mkiv is only single DIN height and the NBT is either 1.5 or 2 DIN depending on the model.

    On top of all that, as was mentioned by BMWplanetdude, you will need a copy of E-SYS and an ethernet jack wired into the adapter cables so you can code the NBT with the options you want. This is not such a simple task, but there are resources on the net on how to do that. Maybe after a few people get this retrofit done, they can begin to offer services for coding these for people. I would if I had mine done already. I'm so tempted to use my tax return to take on this project, but I really need to not do that

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by daytonatrbo View Post
    Is there any compatibility between the ccc/cic and NBT displays?
    From what I can see, since F30's and such got CIC first then NBT later, they seem to use the NBT display and have an adapter cable that gets the power for the display from somewhere else. That would imply you could buy the NBT display and a CIC unit and CIC controller, then upgrade to a NBT head unit later on. I'm not seeing that much difference in price between CIC and NBT units on ebay though, so I would say you're better off going with NBT right off the bat. Keep in mind if you want any of the bluetooth functionality in the CIC, you'll need to also get a Combox and the MOST wiring to make it work. This adds up to almost the same as getting a NBT with Combox already integrated. The NBT also has a 200GB internal hard drive instead of 80GB and has 3d maps. If I were to spend close to $1000 on one of these, I'd much rather it be NBT and be done with it.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  19. #94
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    Thanks! A lot of good info BK. I have been talking to Mick (bmwplanetdude) and he has a very well priced kit available. It was actually cheaper then the widescreen/mk4 retrofit that are offered, however the problem with using him is that he assembles the kits and sells them as a kit, not bits and pieces, which is understandable. I want to assemble the parts on my own so I'm just looking to pick up the module(s) that are not an off the shelf BMW part if you will. It sounds like we may have to go through another distributer. Bk, pm me with the people you have spoke too about getting these in the us, is it possible to become a U.S. distributer? Who else is wanting just the module? I have been in the car audio field for over 25 years so a little fabrication doesn't scare me, the bezel I made for my e39 looks identical to the Janus ones.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by daytonatrbo View Post
    Is there any compatibility between the ccc/cic and NBT displays?
    CCC display probably not since it's much lower resolution.

    CIC and NBT displays might be possible, especially if there is some sort of adapter cable used on some models

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by //m320is View Post
    Thanks! A lot of good info BK. I have been talking to Mick (bmwplanetdude) and he has a very well priced kit available. It was actually cheaper then the widescreen/mk4 retrofit that are offered, however the problem with using him is that he assembles the kits and sells them as a kit, not bits and pieces, which is understandable. I want to assemble the parts on my own so I'm just looking to pick up the module(s) that are not an off the shelf BMW part if you will. It sounds like we may have to go through another distributer. Bk, pm me with the people you have spoke too about getting these in the us, is it possible to become a U.S. distributer? Who else is wanting just the module? I have been in the car audio field for over 25 years so a little fabrication doesn't scare me, the bezel I made for my e39 looks identical to the Janus ones.
    By saying a kit that Mick is offering, are you saying it includes the adapter, head unit, controller, lcd, cables, etc., or do you just mean the adapter? I already listed the two people I talked to about getting the adapter here in the US, Mick and Adrian at customretrofit.ro. The both offered the adapter for about $400 US, by itself as far as I understood. If he's selling the whole kit including the adapter for about the cost of a mkiv, I'd say that's an insane deal, but that's because my mkiv retrofit in my e38 only cost me $150. I already had the 16:9 display and I bought at separate times the BM53 and Bluetooth TCU for $150 and $200 respectively. How much are you thinking a mkiv system was going to cost? I'm guessing since you have a 98 that you are needing the complete virgin NAV retrofit, so it's probably a bit more expensive for you.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  22. #97
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    Yes, I'm talking about the entire kit including the module, however, Im also talking about the cost of a complete widescreen/mk4 system that you can get from places like bimmernav. Complete kits for cars that did not have. I have gutted my e39 and installed a complete aftermarket system, im looking to put this in my e38. Bk are you wanting the module as well? How many orders will it take for a group discount and is there a way to become a distributer?

    Dave.

  23. #98
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    If you're wanting to become a distributor for the adapter(s), you'll need to talk to the manufacturer. Here is their contact page: http://carsystems.com.ua/contacts-en. I have no more information than that though.

    I would love to get started on this project, but I am certainly not in a fiscal situation to be able to. The impression I got from Adrian was that it was about 400 Euros + 12 Euros shipping for an individual unit, but he said that if I needed more than 1, there would be a "nice discount". I figured that meant something like 25-50 Euros off each unit, but that could be wildly optimistic. When I talked to Mick about a price, he told me $470 US shipped for 1 and $450 US for 2 or more. Considering they are getting them from the same manufacturer, I would guess the prices would be about the fairly close. We'll have to see if Mick is interested in running a group buy, but we will likely need to get upwards of 10+ orders to get a decent discount. When you factor in the cost of the nav units on top of that cost, I doubt the interest will be as high as it has been so far. Then add in the coding. Unless Mick is planning on offering coding services, we'll need to learn ourselves and acquire the software.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  24. #99
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    Well, I'm ready to buy the module, if anyone else is too then perhaps we should make a list. I didn't get the impression that Mick wanted to just sell the modules, even a group of them, but perhaps I'm wrong. I'm hoping the Distributers will pipe up and say something.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
    If you're wanting to become a distributor for the adapter(s), you'll need to talk to the manufacturer. Here is their contact page: http://carsystems.com.ua/contacts-en. I have no more information than that though.

    I would love to get started on this project, but I am certainly not in a fiscal situation to be able to. The impression I got from Adrian was that it was about 400 Euros + 12 Euros shipping for an individual unit, but he said that if I needed more than 1, there would be a "nice discount". I figured that meant something like 25-50 Euros off each unit, but that could be wildly optimistic. When I talked to Mick about a price, he told me $470 US shipped for 1 and $450 US for 2 or more. Considering they are getting them from the same manufacturer, I would guess the prices would be about the fairly close. We'll have to see if Mick is interested in running a group buy, but we will likely need to get upwards of 10+ orders to get a decent discount. When you factor in the cost of the nav units on top of that cost, I doubt the interest will be as high as it has been so far. Then add in the coding. Unless Mick is planning on offering coding services, we'll need to learn ourselves and acquire the software.
    Personally I'm fairly interested since I was preparing to retrofit the MKIV setup anyway... but the fabrication definitely scares me a bit. Lot of money to spend on something that I might not be able to integrate with any reasonable level of fit/finish

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