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Thread: NBT/CIC/CCC retrofit in E39/E38/E53

  1. #2676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech566 View Post
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...7fa64c4dmuY1ig

    You can find even cheaper ones, but the shipping becomes more than the item. But I used 2 of these, gutted the internals and modified it to accommodate the touch screen. It fits perfectly well. Once I find the time, I am going to remove all the buttons and fill it in with body filler. Sand it all smooth and paint it black. I find with the touch screen of the EVO, the I-drive controller is not nearly as required as you'd think.
    Building a PnP kit is not as easy as you'd think.
    Converter
    The converter module is the trickiest part about this.
    As Hakeem has already tried building one with a PIE adapter, is a great idea, but probably a bit more advanced than purchasing an already built unit.
    you have to keep in mind, you are trying to implement modern day technology in to 20 year old car. A modern day F/G car has several additional control modules to detect pitch/yaw and so on. It is much more refined and accurate which is what people will want when paying the price for this setup.
    Installation is a whole other process which is not really for beginners.
    I appreciate your message, I believe you just want to make sure I don't try to dive into something I'm not ready for. Although I just joined this thread, I'm not a beginner. This isn't one of those instances where someone asks E46fanatics how to get their 325 to 400hp and they have $600.

    I don't want to state my skillset, because actions speak louder than words. All I can say is I understand the magnitude of what I want to achieve, and I'm excited to get there. If I pumped the brakes every time I had a project above my current skillset, I would never grow. I would have never put my car in the air to learn to wrench. If I never did that, I would have never gotten to my manual swap. Then an engine swap. Then an engine swap into a unique chassis. And so on. I like when I approach a project I can't complete right out of the door. For me, these are fun. If I worried about the cost or the difficulty, I wouldn't own a BMW. I'm here because I want to do something unique, and I want to do it right.

    I usually don't voice my intentions on the internet. I like to keep things under wraps until I have a completed project or have something to show for it. I have three other big projects I'm working on that are also being kept under wraps. In this instance, I don't think this is a journey I can entirely ride alone. I'm going to fall down a few times and I need people in this thread to get me back on my feet so I can have something to share with everyone. I have a team of brilliant minds behind me too to help me on my journey, and I hope this thread can be one of those people every now and then.

    So to all of those reading, and for those of you like me who read every page of this thread: I am here to complete this project. The only secret I have to share is I have two other projects I want to complete first, with one of them partially helping me with this project. I promise I will share if I fold and give up, but I have never given myself a project where I've done that.

  2. #2677
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
    I appreciate your message, I believe you just want to make sure I don't try to dive into something I'm not ready for. Although I just joined this thread, I'm not a beginner. This isn't one of those instances where someone asks E46fanatics how to get their 325 to 400hp and they have $600.

    I don't want to state my skillset, because actions speak louder than words. All I can say is I understand the magnitude of what I want to achieve, and I'm excited to get there. If I pumped the brakes every time I had a project above my current skillset, I would never grow. I would have never put my car in the air to learn to wrench. If I never did that, I would have never gotten to my manual swap. Then an engine swap. Then an engine swap into a unique chassis. And so on. I like when I approach a project I can't complete right out of the door. For me, these are fun. If I worried about the cost or the difficulty, I wouldn't own a BMW. I'm here because I want to do something unique, and I want to do it right.

    I usually don't voice my intentions on the internet. I like to keep things under wraps until I have a completed project or have something to show for it. I have three other big projects I'm working on that are also being kept under wraps. In this instance, I don't think this is a journey I can entirely ride alone. I'm going to fall down a few times and I need people in this thread to get me back on my feet so I can have something to share with everyone. I have a team of brilliant minds behind me too to help me on my journey, and I hope this thread can be one of those people every now and then.

    So to all of those reading, and for those of you like me who read every page of this thread: I am here to complete this project. The only secret I have to share is I have two other projects I want to complete first, with one of them partially helping me with this project. I promise I will share if I fold and give up, but I have never given myself a project where I've done that.
    Looking forward to it.

    EURO 04 M3
    Current Mods: GC DA's, Eibach ARB's, INTRAVEE II + Alpine KCA-420i, Depo's, Screen protector for OEM 16:9 display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip + CF Boot + CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, Z8 Starter Button, BBS CHs, Lamin-X, STORM SMG Paddles, RE RTABs/RCAs, OEM CSL Interior, OEM CSL Intake, M3 CSL HP DME, TTFS Tune, STOPTECH ST40's, FXR 3.0 Projectors, SS Stepped headers + Catless S Pipes + Res X-Pipe + Sport Muffler, OEM CSL Roof, OEM CSL Steering.



  3. #2678
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
    I appreciate your message, I believe you just want to make sure I don't try to dive into something I'm not ready for. Although I just joined this thread, I'm not a beginner. This isn't one of those instances where someone asks E46fanatics how to get their 325 to 400hp and they have $600.

    I don't want to state my skillset, because actions speak louder than words. All I can say is I understand the magnitude of what I want to achieve, and I'm excited to get there. If I pumped the brakes every time I had a project above my current skillset, I would never grow. I would have never put my car in the air to learn to wrench. If I never did that, I would have never gotten to my manual swap. Then an engine swap. Then an engine swap into a unique chassis. And so on. I like when I approach a project I can't complete right out of the door. For me, these are fun. If I worried about the cost or the difficulty, I wouldn't own a BMW. I'm here because I want to do something unique, and I want to do it right.

    I usually don't voice my intentions on the internet. I like to keep things under wraps until I have a completed project or have something to show for it. I have three other big projects I'm working on that are also being kept under wraps. In this instance, I don't think this is a journey I can entirely ride alone. I'm going to fall down a few times and I need people in this thread to get me back on my feet so I can have something to share with everyone. I have a team of brilliant minds behind me too to help me on my journey, and I hope this thread can be one of those people every now and then.

    So to all of those reading, and for those of you like me who read every page of this thread: I am here to complete this project. The only secret I have to share is I have two other projects I want to complete first, with one of them partially helping me with this project. I promise I will share if I fold and give up, but I have never given myself a project where I've done that.
    I am by no means looking down at you or trying to discourage you. I am also not considering you a beginner, I am more so referring to the actual instal and integration is more so involved than what your average user is willing to put in. If anything, I would like to help you with what I can (Sent you a PM). I am just mentioning that if you plan to make a plug and play package, it will be a challenge. I understand that you and I don't worry about cost, but most people that see the system in my car have half a heart attack when they ask about the price. Lets also face the fact that this kit all said and done may be more than the value of most cars from this era.
    From personal experience, technical support will also play a huge role, which you will need to consider.
    for example
    When I had the BR kit in my car, they seemed to get extremely annoyed and unhappy when I continuously contacted them with issues. Such as, when at a traffic light, the GPS would continuously do 360's even though I was at a stand still. When I made a left turn, it would turn right. I even sent the adapter back and they were quick to NFF it.
    With the CS system, they replied to every email and did their best. They even logged in through team viewer to do what they needed in the module.
    Like you, I have been through most of your projects you have done, and as per my user name, you can probably tell I am a tech. But, by a long shot, that does not mean I haven't had help with my more involved projects. Not a single person knows everything. The people that are helping me are also very interested in seeing this succeed. We are also looking in to more info learning about the NBT units themselves
    Another thing that is very important about this setup, you will require DSC. My 330 had ASC-T, but the system relies on the yaw rate sensor underneath the drivers seat and the steering angle sensor. Luckily my coupe had the updated 2 pin wheel speed sensors over the early 3 pin sensors which made integration easier.

  4. #2679
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    casual bump. To be clear, I didn't mean to ghost the thread. Tech566 and I have been doing some back and forth. I have dedicated an entire day today to try and get communication working. I haven't had any breakthrough unfortunately so I added a logger to an F33 BUS and will be going from there.

  5. #2680
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    Small status update. I’m designing my wiring harness. Just deciding how I want to lay it out as I don’t want to have to lift the carpet again.

  6. #2681
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    Bump. Have a massive collection of f30 parts. Waiting for pigtails. Shockingly hard to source

  7. #2682
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
    I appreciate your message, I believe you just want to make sure I don't try to dive into something I'm not ready for. Although I just joined this thread, I'm not a beginner. This isn't one of those instances where someone asks E46fanatics how to get their 325 to 400hp and they have $600.

    I don't want to state my skillset, because actions speak louder than words. All I can say is I understand the magnitude of what I want to achieve, and I'm excited to get there. If I pumped the brakes every time I had a project above my current skillset, I would never grow. I would have never put my car in the air to learn to wrench. If I never did that, I would have never gotten to my manual swap. Then an engine swap. Then an engine swap into a unique chassis. And so on. I like when I approach a project I can't complete right out of the door. For me, these are fun. If I worried about the cost or the difficulty, I wouldn't own a BMW. I'm here because I want to do something unique, and I want to do it right.

    I usually don't voice my intentions on the internet. I like to keep things under wraps until I have a completed project or have something to show for it. I have three other big projects I'm working on that are also being kept under wraps. In this instance, I don't think this is a journey I can entirely ride alone. I'm going to fall down a few times and I need people in this thread to get me back on my feet so I can have something to share with everyone. I have a team of brilliant minds behind me too to help me on my journey, and I hope this thread can be one of those people every now and then.

    So to all of those reading, and for those of you like me who read every page of this thread: I am here to complete this project. The only secret I have to share is I have two other projects I want to complete first, with one of them partially helping me with this project. I promise I will share if I fold and give up, but I have never given myself a project where I've done that.
    Quote Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
    Bump. Have a massive collection of f30 parts. Waiting for pigtails. Shockingly hard to source
    Just reading your messages YoitsTmac, Kudos to you dude! I'm still following this with the intent to do this install too. Please keep us posted on your findings and thanks for sharing what you have so far like @tech566 & Hakeem have amongst others (not to mention the threadstarter - Paul!)
    Last edited by kahlilj; 03-22-2022 at 02:03 AM.
    "A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible. There are no prima donnas in engineering." - Freeman Dyson

  8. #2683
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    I promise I will! Sadly just still waiting for pigtails


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #2684
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
    I promise I will! Sadly just still waiting for pigtails


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    pigtails? is that some sort of connector?
    "A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible. There are no prima donnas in engineering." - Freeman Dyson

  10. #2685
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    NBT/CIC/CCC retrofit in E39/E38/E53

    Pigtails is a reference for like, cutting off a piece of a harness. I need the plug that goes into the back of the iDrive so I can give it power and connect to busses and the like. Without them, I can’t interface with any of the modules properly

  11. #2686
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
    Pigtails is a reference for like, cutting off a piece of a harness. I need the plug that goes into the back of the iDrive so I can give it power and connect to busses and the like. Without them, I can’t interface with any of the modules properly
    Do you mean the big quadlock harness? Something like this is what I typically use: https://www.ebay.com/itm/15480198055....c101124.m2109

    They come fully populated so you can just remove or cut any of the wires you need.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  12. #2687
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    That says Audi. Are they all the same? I have a similar connector in my cart, but there’s a ton of plugs I need where I’m best off waiting for my recyclers to get inventory. I need plugs for the ATM/TCB, and truth be told I need a collection of other connectors from an F series as well.

  13. #2688
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    Also, just so you guys know, I'm currently working on getting one of these NBT systems installed into my 2005 Range Rover with the MOST Bus Logic7 amplifier (14 speakers with surround sound) and a Ford based head unit. Not as simple as the previous 2002-2004 BMW based navigation systems with the DSP Logic7 system, but with an AVIN MOST Amp adapter (RCA inputs to the MOST bus amp to turn it on) and stealing the ibus wires and CAN bus wires from the cluster (still BMW based), initial testing says that it will work just fine. And since the Andream Carplay/Android Auto unit was so successful in my 2003 M5 with NBT, I expect this will be comparable, if not better due to the sound system being so much better in the Range Rover. I'll have steering wheel controls to control volume properly since the MOST bus is set to a fixed volume, unlike the old E39 DSP based amps that used ibus control to set the volume and set the head unit to fixed output. Those older systems when retrofitted to NBT always have double volume control and it's horrible, especially since the DSP amp always starts at a low volume when the old radio isn't connected. I was able to fix this on my M5 by using a really neat little box from Trioma that sets the DSP amp to max volume and tone/balance controls to 0, letting the NBT unit handle the volume and tone controls instead. It wires directly to the ibus wire on the DSP amp, cutting it out of the Ibus wiring of the car. Here's the one I used: https://12volt-shop.lv/en/bmw-dsp-am...interface.html. I did not use the built in line converter as it made the sound awful from the NBT. I kept the audio going from the high level output wires on the NBT to the input on the DSP amp, same as factory. Only thing needed to install is to supply the adapter with power, ground and connect the ibus wire to the DSP amp directly after cutting the wire going to the car from it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
    That says Audi. Are they all the same? I have a similar connector in my cart, but there’s a ton of plugs I need where I’m best off waiting for my recyclers to get inventory. I need plugs for the ATM/TCB, and truth be told I need a collection of other connectors from an F series as well.
    Yes, all QuadLock are the same when the wires are all populated and there are no other connectors in the middle. They are just straight-through extensions.

    There is also another adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/15471518472....c101124.m2109 that has the OABR plug already wired in. OABR connectors and pigtails can be bought from BMW as well.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  14. #2689
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    Bump. So painful its taken this long. I am also having issues getting wire terminals from suppliers in reasonable quantities. I have pigtails shipping out Monday.

  15. #2690
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    Pigtails should be arriving today. Sorry it’s so damn slow

  16. #2691
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
    Pigtails should be arriving today. Sorry it’s so damn slow
    Any progress? Did you get & install the pigtail connectors? Shipping for most electronic things has been crazy in this C19 world.
    "A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible. There are no prima donnas in engineering." - Freeman Dyson

  17. #2692
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    I did get the pigtails. No progress sadly. A few personal things have come up that I have to take care of. This issue still very high on my list. Although I don't have a bench going, I have been regularly doing research on how these modules work, interact with each other and what it will take to get them integrated. I actually talked with one of my coworkers about this and am going to go with a different approach for my translator. I have a "beta" translator I made that I am using, so I indeed been working on this in small steps. I expect to get a working bench by Mid-May at the latest

  18. #2693
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    Back from a break. I blew the engine in my car so everything was on standby. Replaced it with a 60k mile engine and all is good so I have a bit more time to work on NBT.

    Time to finish my install. The main reason I installed the screen on the dash was to put an f series faceplate in place of the old radio so I can turn up/down and control the unit like newer cars. If I could do it all over I would've gotten a smaller screen because it does look a bit out of space and it's kinda big.

    Anywho, I got the radio from the f25 faceplate working. It's probably the only faceplate that is small enough to fit in the radio position in our cars. All controls are working but I still have to pause using the steering wheel. Not sure if it's a radio or carsystems issue. I'll be 3d printing a mount to mount it securely in this spot.



    I know I have a touchscreen so I don't really need the controller but it does come in handy when driving so I don't have to reach for the screen. I 3d printed a mount below the armrest and managed to match the stock finish so it doesn't look out of place.


    After this I'll be coming up with a new cupholder solution. Was thinking of something like this and printing the holder on the side to keep it in place. Will see how it works out.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #2694
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    I finished my other projects and this is not my priority again. I'm going to make a network with a bunch of busses. If anyone knows where I can get the male and female connectors for the end of the busses so I can make a clean network, that would be greatly appreciated. This weekend I am buying a spare E46 cluster, I just bought a Teensy 4.0 and a CANBUS sheild V2. I don't know what is going to work for me, so I bought everything so I don't get held up. I need to buy another Arduino because my first one is powering my M240 seats. I already have a sniffer from CSS Electronics. I will have a complete network including an FEM, so most of my sniffing will be done in my E46. Probably just a data log to get the gist of things. Then because I have an FEM, I can just see what makes what happen. and I can replay CANBUS codes with the CSS Electronics tool I have, and I can slowly remove messages until things don't work properly. Full speed ahead

  20. #2695
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    Clean integration. The surround piece of the idrive looks just like the OE trim finish... great work on that

    Many of the harnesses can be found in RealOEM, they are often buried somewhere in the electrical stuff and you can't always trust the pictures - plug the part # into google to find a vendor who took pictures of them - but they are usually in there. Where it gets tricky is if you are looking for pins or empty harness plugs but as you are splicing then you can usually find the harnesses with wire leads and so you don't need to find empty harnesses. Of course if you are looking for the harnesses for shielded canbus wires it may be more tricky, BMW generally doesn't want splicing on the shielded wires - so that may be prove more difficult. But if that is the case you can source used harnesses with the shielded wire and cut back the shielding to access the wires, splice, then pull the shielding back over the splice and it will be ok if you are careful about how you do it... I have had to do that before and it worked fine. I think the multimedia stuff is not shielded so I don't think it will be an issue

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  21. #2696
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    I have a ton of wire. For a quick bench I am just looking for the part number for the pins I can put at the end of the wire. I really don’t believe a full F series harness should be necessary. When I add 3D view and the like, I can cross that bridge when I get there.

    I work in an industry where I have a good selection to shielded (and standard) wire. I’ll make dozens of wires into a full harness, just didn’t know if anyone was familiar with the PN for that most common pin size. I tried a few but the lock on the top of the pin is like .5mm to big and is slightly offset, so they don’t work. It was an issue with my M240 seats as well. I ended up splicing pins from E46 seats to twisted wire I have. Far from ideal compared to just clipping the correct pin on the wires.

  22. #2697
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    You said you 3d printed that mount for the touch controller? Did you design it? is there somewhere i can get that file or even buy the file for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakeem530i View Post
    Back from a break. I blew the engine in my car so everything was on standby. Replaced it with a 60k mile engine and all is good so I have a bit more time to work on NBT.

    Time to finish my install. The main reason I installed the screen on the dash was to put an f series faceplate in place of the old radio so I can turn up/down and control the unit like newer cars. If I could do it all over I would've gotten a smaller screen because it does look a bit out of space and it's kinda big.

    Anywho, I got the radio from the f25 faceplate working. It's probably the only faceplate that is small enough to fit in the radio position in our cars. All controls are working but I still have to pause using the steering wheel. Not sure if it's a radio or carsystems issue. I'll be 3d printing a mount to mount it securely in this spot.



    I know I have a touchscreen so I don't really need the controller but it does come in handy when driving so I don't have to reach for the screen. I 3d printed a mount below the armrest and managed to match the stock finish so it doesn't look out of place.


    After this I'll be coming up with a new cupholder solution. Was thinking of something like this and printing the holder on the side to keep it in place. Will see how it works out.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  23. #2698
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    I'd love to get moving on this but I'm really struggling creating my bench. I need the power to the FEM cable, an ICM and a ICM pigtail. Does anyone have a source for these? I have seriously been trying for a MONTH.

    My bench will consist of an FEM, ICM, NBT EVO and a bunch of other sensors. I plan on integrating the entire engine authentication and start system, so I have a few more wires and a few door handles too....

  24. #2699
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    Can anyone help me out?

    That's my YouTube account, but I can't seem to get the FEM to wake up. I see someone used an aftermarket reader to wake theirs up, but I am trying to integrate the FEM as well. Any help would be appreciated...so I can pack up all my wiring and connectors I have all over my room.

  25. #2700
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoitsTmac View Post
    Can anyone help me out?

    That's my YouTube account, but I can't seem to get the FEM to wake up. I see someone used an aftermarket reader to wake theirs up, but I am trying to integrate the FEM as well. Any help would be appreciated...so I can pack up all my wiring and connectors I have all over my room.
    Not really familiar with the modules in the newer cars. What's FEM? Does it wake up with canbus signals?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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