NBT/CIC/CCC retrofit in E39/E38/E53

[Tech566]

From what I hear from numerous people, Carsystems is really not that great considering how much money it costs. Doesn't seem like they have a great interest in our cars. I'll take a look into how the F30 TPMS is wired, If its a 4 wire system it could probably be plug and play if wired to the CAN H/L on the back of the NBT.



I know that it should work for E46,E39 and E53 but I'm not sure about the new Range Rover. 2008 is more recent so I'm doubting it'd work. Canbus in Newer cars are a lot easier to work with than the iBus (For me at least) though. Does it share any parts/modules with any BMW? If so, then it might use similar CAN signals.


Also, Not sure if I posted an update but the PI iBus/Can bridge is somewhat working. Good news is the code works for all NBTs. NBT, Evo id4 and Evo id6. I'll be installing the unit from a 2018 BMW G30 in my BMW, along with the G30 touch screen and put it on the dash. I found the Can bus codes for the e90 Climate control so I plan on installing it later on. I'm using the regular idrive controller. I noticed that if I coded the HU to G30 the controller doesn't work. I'm trying to get the USB and car play working so I can have a functional car after retrofitting it and work on the CAN signals.

I designed and 3d printed a holder for the iDrive controller to hold in the console. I'll posting a pic of it later. Not pretty but it'll work for now.

It is indeed a plug and play solution. I have gotten my hands on the receiver and the sensors for the wheels. From what I have read, the location of the receiver is important. It must sit in the l/r corner of the car. It determines which sensor is where by signal strength. Once I get some time, I will be installing it. I have managed to code in temperature and pressure on the I-drive.
I have experienced both bimmer retrofit and car systems. Bimmer retrofit super complicates things. They vin lock your unit to the car, the clock NEVER worked right, no communication between I-drive and CAN so it never saw fuel economy/ fuel remaining or anything else on the I-bus. Nav was useless. The more I tried to communicate with them to work out the kinks, the more aggravated they became.
When I installed the car systems, everything functioned. I did have nav issues but that was my fault and was rectified. I had crossed the CAN lines. Car systems stepped up and did try to resolve my issue.

Got USB working now. I had to flip the connector. Is there anyway to increase the volume of the nbt without the faceplate? Also, anyone ever get a"No warning tones" error on booting the nbt?

I had the same issue with the USB, different connectors have different configurations
The "no tones" warning is most likely due to the headunit thinking it has a most amplifier. If you hook up speakers to the headunit there probably wont be any output of sound. It can be switched in the settings. I will be honest, I do not know how to use e-sys very well and it is rather unstable. A friend of mine built a custom bench setup with a FEM which allows me to use the Bimmercode App via BT dongle. In expert mode it is identical to E-sys but much simpler to use.

[Hakeem530i]

It is indeed a plug and play solution. I have gotten my hands on the receiver and the sensors for the wheels. From what I have read, the location of the receiver is important. It must sit in the l/r corner of the car. It determines which sensor is where by signal strength. Once I get some time, I will be installing it. I have managed to code in temperature and pressure on the I-drive.
I have experienced both bimmer retrofit and car systems. Bimmer retrofit super complicates things. They vin lock your unit to the car, the clock NEVER worked right, no communication between I-drive and CAN so it never saw fuel economy/ fuel remaining or anything else on the I-bus. Nav was useless. The more I tried to communicate with them to work out the kinks, the more aggravated they became.
When I installed the car systems, everything functioned. I did have nav issues but that was my fault and was rectified. I had crossed the CAN lines. Car systems stepped up and did try to resolve my issue.




I had the same issue with the USB, different connectors have different configurations
The "no tones" warning is most likely due to the headunit thinking it has a most amplifier. If you hook up speakers to the headunit there probably wont be any output of sound. It can be switched in the settings. I will be honest, I do not know how to use e-sys very well and it is rather unstable. A friend of mine built a custom bench setup with a FEM which allows me to use the Bimmercode App via BT dongle. In expert mode it is identical to E-sys but much simpler to use.

Haven't had much issues with E-sys except for flashing. I'll try coding it when I get my evo back. Do you remember what you changed?

[Tech566]

Haven't had much issues with E-sys except for flashing. I'll try coding it when I get my evo back. Do you remember what you changed?

Will be
Amplifier_Variant
Internal
0x00
External
0x01
Most
0x02

Yours is probably set to Most. Going to want to go to external.

Curious about your retrofit. How did you get the PI to get all the wheel speed signals and steering angle signals? When I had the lines crossed, NAV was being tracked by strictly the NAV antenna, which did a terrible job. Updated about every 5 seconds or so.

[Hakeem530i]

Will be
Amplifier_Variant
Internal
0x00
External
0x01
Most
0x02

Yours is probably set to Most. Going to want to go to external.

Curious about your retrofit. How did you get the PI to get all the wheel speed signals and steering angle signals? When I had the lines crossed, NAV was being tracked by strictly the NAV antenna, which did a terrible job. Updated about every 5 seconds or so.

Thanks. I'll test that out and I haven't gotten that far yet. Right now I have it tested on bench with the bare minimum working. The pi and my laptop is connected to my phone's hotspot so I'll be able to code it wirelessly and monitor the signals from car once I get everything installed. The wheel speeds are on Canbus so it shouldn't be too hard to get. Sending them to the nbt might be a different story though.

In regards to the install, I have the wiring harness from trunk somewhat ready and I sent out my nbt to theshafro for the ATM/GPS wiring. Since I'll be installing my screen on the dash I can install the audio panel (volume control buttons) from another BMW in the radio slot. It's plug and play if using an f series since its connected to the Canbus line:
Issue is that it's too wide.

The e series cic panel will fit:
But I have no idea how it's wired and I can't find pinouts online.

For now I'll just use the steering volume control until I figure that out.

[Perern]

Thanks. I'll test that out and I haven't gotten that far yet. Right now I have it tested on bench with the bare minimum working. The pi and my laptop is connected to my phone's hotspot so I'll be able to code it wirelessly and monitor the signals from car once I get everything installed. The wheel speeds are on Canbus so it shouldn't be too hard to get. Sending them to the nbt might be a different story though.

In regards to the install, I have the wiring harness from trunk somewhat ready and I sent out my nbt to theshafro for the ATM/GPS wiring. Since I'll be installing my screen on the dash I can install the audio panel (volume control buttons) from another BMW in the radio slot. It's plug and play if using an f series since its connected to the Canbus line:
Issue is that it's too wide.

The e series cic panel will fit:
But I have no idea how it's wired and I can't find pinouts online.

For now I'll just use the steering volume control until I figure that out.

Just the front panel with the PCB visible on the back? Because it's a part of the CIC unit it probably doesn't have a wiring diagram.

[Hakeem530i]

Just the front panel with the PCB visible on the back? Because it's a part of the CIC unit it probably doesn't have a wiring diagram.

Yup that one. That probably explains why I can't find it. I'm wondering how they use it with nbt or where it connects to. I thought it plugged into the CIC? Like in this https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1291856post.

[Tech566]

Thanks. I'll test that out and I haven't gotten that far yet. Right now I have it tested on bench with the bare minimum working. The pi and my laptop is connected to my phone's hotspot so I'll be able to code it wirelessly and monitor the signals from car once I get everything installed. The wheel speeds are on Canbus so it shouldn't be too hard to get. Sending them to the nbt might be a different story though.

In regards to the install, I have the wiring harness from trunk somewhat ready and I sent out my nbt to theshafro for the ATM/GPS wiring. Since I'll be installing my screen on the dash I can install the audio panel (volume control buttons) from another BMW in the radio slot. It's plug and play if using an f series since its connected to the Canbus line:
Issue is that it's too wide.

The e series cic panel will fit:
But I have no idea how it's wired and I can't find pinouts online.

For now I'll just use the steering volume control until I figure that out.

I-bus and the CAN in the e39/46/53 are just communicating slower than on the newer ones which talk on K-CAN/2. So I’d imagine you would need an F series car to read the signals on that for DSC to NAV. Then somehow get the PI to convert the signals? Thinking out loud here, so, sorry if I sound stupid.
As for the control panel, the one that’s to wide is 3 pins. KCAN H/L and lin line. I am sure the Lin is going to wake it up, Not sure if this could simply be tapped in with the E46's lin(my application) and the KCAN to the headunit.
The one that would fit has a ribbon cable between headunit and panel. My BimmerRetro kit had the ribbon cable built in, but didn’t work from day 1. The car systems doesn’t have it. When I inquired about it, I was told it’s an additional option. Had I known, I would have ordered it with it. But they didn’t make mention of it. Not a big deal for me though. I’ll just get a panel and wire it in.

As for the ATM/GPS wiring, there are a few harnesses out there pre made for what you want to do. I have an evo that I have not yet put in.
PLEASE be very careful with the EVO. Make sure the ATM and EVO have matching vins. From what I’ve read, if they are mismatched, it will brick the EVO. If you have a BDC/FEM, that must also be matched.

[Hakeem530i]

I-bus and the CAN in the e39/46/53 are just communicating slower than on the newer ones which talk on K-CAN/2. So I’d imagine you would need an F series car to read the signals on that for DSC to NAV. Then somehow get the PI to convert the signals? Thinking out loud here, so, sorry if I sound stupid.
As for the control panel, the one that’s to wide is 3 pins. KCAN H/L and lin line. I am sure the Lin is going to wake it up, Not sure if this could simply be tapped in with the E46's lin(my application) and the KCAN to the headunit.
The one that would fit has a ribbon cable between headunit and panel. My BimmerRetro kit had the ribbon cable built in, but didn’t work from day 1. The car systems doesn’t have it. When I inquired about it, I was told it’s an additional option. Had I known, I would have ordered it with it. But they didn’t make mention of it. Not a big deal for me though. I’ll just get a panel and wire it in.

As for the ATM/GPS wiring, there are a few harnesses out there pre made for what you want to do. I have an evo that I have not yet put in.
PLEASE be very careful with the EVO. Make sure the ATM and EVO have matching vins. From what I’ve read, if they are mismatched, it will brick the EVO. If you have a BDC/FEM, that must also be matched.

Yeah I'll need to check those out. I don't trust myself to do all the work for ATM so I sent it out. Should be getting it back sometime this week.

While it's out I did testing on my other nbt and I now have time working. It's only static right now and I'm sure how to pull time and date from the e39 so it'll be pulled from pi for now.

Light dimmer also works for the iDrive controller. How does the dimmer work in the f series? I have the e39 LCM ibus codes so I should be able to tie it in with the car.




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[Tech566]

Yeah I'll need to check those out. I don't trust myself to do all the work for ATM so I sent it out. Should be getting it back sometime this week.

While it's out I did testing on my other nbt and I now have time working. It's only static right now and I'm sure how to pull time and date from the e39 so it'll be pulled from pi for now.

Light dimmer also works for the iDrive controller. How does the dimmer work in the f series? I have the e39 LCM ibus codes so I should be able to tie it in with the car.




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You are miles ahead of the BR kit that I had. The clock goes through the KOMBI and thatÂ’s where the main CAN connection comes from. It is also the main gateway. On the F cars, the main gateway is the ZGW, but the KOMBI still controls the clock.
The dimmer, there is pin 14 on the NBT that is dedicated to it. The BR kit states not to have anything hooked up to it when using an EVO. With the CS kit, I had it hooked up, but the light did not change. Once I had the CAN hooked up, the illumination started functioning correctly. I have still left it hooked up at this time. I am using just an NBT. EVO will be coming soon. Another thing that I find interesting with the CS kit, is that when the auto lights are not on yet, but itÂ’s dark enough outside, (or visa versa) the screen will dim automatically. It must have a sensitivity setting through the Rain/light sensor.

[Hakeem530i]

Started Putting everything together. I'm using the g30 touch screen which is way too big and The mounting tabs block the AC vents. I'll either cut the tabs down or modify the AC vents but I'm guessing the latter will restrict airflow. My dash is also hacked up pretty bad but nothing a little 3d printing can't fix.

[Hakeem530i]

Ran the wires through to the trunk. I was hoping the USB extension would be long enough to reach the glovebox but its a little short.

Hallway there. Need to code to turn on with the ignition and figure out the AC vent situation. Touch screen works fine and car play also works. Right now I have no volume since I haven't coded the ibus/CAN signal for volume.

Hoping I should have it functional by the end of this week.

[Tech566]

Ran the wires through to the trunk. I was hoping the USB extension would be long enough to reach the glovebox but its a little short.

Hallway there. Need to code to turn on with the ignition and figure out the AC vent situation. Touch screen works fine and car play also works. Right now I have no volume since I haven't coded the ibus/CAN signal for volume.

Hoping I should have it functional by the end of this week.

That is some pretty good progress. I am just curious, why did you decide to put the screen up top? I used an 8.8" screen(non touch) and took the decorative trim off to fit it in the dash. From my understanding,the e39/53 has a wider opening than the e46. I've been in the process of trying to get a bezel made for my dash through a friend with a 3d printer. Well, lets just say it hasn't been the most successful story. Do you own a 3D printer? Does that screen have guide hooks further up? I cut the bottom tabs off and made custom brackets that fastened to the guide hooks.
As for the volume, you should have something if you were to choose radio for example. With the CS kit, it seems to put the volume at mute on start up at times for some reason. Again, not a big deal, as it can be nice instead of being blown away by loud music when starting the car early in the morning haha. Did you also change the setting from most to regular amp?
I also have a panel coming so that I will have control of the volume via regular knob again. After further research, I know it runs on LIN. Going to see if I can retro the buttons off the panel as well. The CS kit has a LIN line through the adapter so I am hoping that line is there in preparation for that panel.
For the car play, are you using an ATM module?

[purplecty]

Here is the screen I have that I plan to use in my e53 x5 if this will help with the cost of the iBus emulator. I think it was out of an F10 but not 100% sure20200921_200855.jpg

[Hakeem530i]

That is some pretty good progress. I am just curious, why did you decide to put the screen up top? I used an 8.8" screen(non touch) and took the decorative trim off to fit it in the dash. From my understanding,the e39/53 has a wider opening than the e46. I've been in the process of trying to get a bezel made for my dash through a friend with a 3d printer. Well, lets just say it hasn't been the most successful story. Do you own a 3D printer? Does that screen have guide hooks further up? I cut the bottom tabs off and made custom brackets that fastened to the guide hooks.
As for the volume, you should have something if you were to choose radio for example. With the CS kit, it seems to put the volume at mute on start up at times for some reason. Again, not a big deal, as it can be nice instead of being blown away by loud music when starting the car early in the morning haha. Did you also change the setting from most to regular amp?
I also have a panel coming so that I will have control of the volume via regular knob again. After further research, I know it runs on LIN. Going to see if I can retro the buttons off the panel as well. The CS kit has a LIN line through the adapter so I am hoping that line is there in preparation for that panel.
For the car play, are you using an ATM module?

Good news is I got it to switch on with the Can signals. It now works with ignition accessory position like theshafro wanted. PO of my car installed one of those aftermarket steering wheel radio volume things so I'll have to rip that out before I can get the volume to work.

I decided to put it up top because I'm not really a fan of the stock e39 radio position and I planned on putting audio buttons where the radio use to sit. I doubt I can get the ones from the other BMWs to work so, seeing as I'm using the raspberry pi, I could just make and wire my own .



Yeah it has guide tabs. Do you have any pics of your brackets with the guide tabs? I think I'll do that after cutting these bottom tabs down a bit.

I do have 2 3d printers that come in very handy. This isn't the prettiest but I made a rough mount for the controller.


It'll fit like shown below.


My nbt starts on mute too. Think it may be something to do with the coding. Still not sure if my audio is working or not but I'll get around to it eventually.

[Tech566]

That’s the picture I currently have on hand. The app won’t allow me to add more than 1 photo at a time. What I used is the factory plastic piece that holds the factory radio in place. Cut it down to what I need. Then used the upper guide tabs and bent metal the way I needed it. Since I am having so many issues with a custom trim bezel, I ordered another experimental piece to see if I can make it work. This will also accommodate the buttons the way I would like(I hope)


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[Tech566]

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[Tech566]

This is my disaster in the console. Once the system is fully functional, I will be finalizing everything. I think I will also run all new wiring prior to finishing this. I have extra wires everywhere to accommodate future add ons


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[Hakeem530i]

Here is the screen I have that I plan to use in my e53 x5 if this will help with the cost of the iBus emulator. I think it was out of an F10 but not 100% sure20200921_200855.jpg

Sorry, I Think I skipped right over your message. Cost of what ibus emulator?

This is my disaster in the console. Once the system is fully functional, I will be finalizing everything. I think I will also run all new wiring prior to finishing this. I have extra wires everywhere to accommodate future add ons


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Nice. I still need to figure out how to mount the nbt in the trunk and I don't think I changed from MOST to regular amp. I'll try that later. I do have an ATM but I'm not sure if it's used for carplay or not. I think carplay just needs to be activated to be used. After that I connected my phone through Bluetooth. Let me know If you ever need someone to print a design.


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[purplecty]

Wouldn't the PI replace the expensive emulator needed or am I off here?

[Hakeem530i]

Wouldn't the PI replace the expensive emulator needed or am I off here?

Yeah that's correct. The pi does everything. I haven't gotten everything working yet though.

Parts required are:
Raspberry Pi 3
PiCan2
Resler ibus

I'll upload the links to the parts and my code to GitHub later when I get the volume wiring.

[Sabreslight]

Yeah that's correct. The pi does everything. I haven't gotten everything working yet though.

Parts required are:
Raspberry Pi 3
PiCan2
Resler ibus

I'll upload the links to the parts and my code to GitHub later when I get the volume wiring.

Badass.

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[Tech566]

Sorry, I Think I skipped right over your message. Cost of what ibus emulator?


Nice. I still need to figure out how to mount the nbt in the trunk and I don't think I changed from MOST to regular amp. I'll try that later. I do have an ATM but I'm not sure if it's used for carplay or not. I think carplay just needs to be activated to be used. After that I connected my phone through Bluetooth. Let me know If you ever need someone to print a design.


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The ATM is required for the EVO. The EVO does not have the GPS module built in to the headunit. BR and CS make Adapters for exactly this reason. I actually just tracked down an ATM today on eBay for a super reasonable price. There are 2 different versions. 1 is a black box version which had a very limited production run because they decided to go to a roof mounted one which is a white box. The reason they did this is because they wanted no resistance on the antenna to the ATM. But on regular BMW’s the ATM is responsible for NAV, all connected drive apps such as CarPlay, traffic, emergency services and online capabilities. Carplay is now a 1 time 300$ activation fee on a new BMW. Lots of people are retrofitting it though like you mentioned.
What I did for my mounting, (as pictured) I used the OEM nav brackets. Also have the carpet covering for it. Added aluminum bars and mounted it. I also put it in the direction of travel as there is controversy if it makes a difference or not.
You may want to try and track down an OEM NAV Mount and see if you can do the same
Once my experimental piece comes in, I’ll have a good idea where I am with the screen. As for the console, I have an idea. But not enough time in the day to execute

[Hakeem530i]

Badass.

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Wouldn't the PI replace the expensive emulator needed or am I off here?

For anyone interested in my method you need:
PiCan2 : link
Resler ibus: link
Raspberry Pi 3: link

The good thing about the Pican2 I just linked above is that it runs off of 12V so you need no power adapter to power it. So now to the wiring.
PiCan and NBT are wired to 12V and Ground. Can H and Can L are wired from the NBT to CAN A on the PiCan (All these can be connected on the PICan CAN A port; no need to wire anything to the pi). The iDrive controller also need to be connected to either the Can lines at some point.

Resler is connected to the USB port. Assuming that everyone is installing the NBT in the trunk, you can use the CD changer iBus wires in the trunk. The wires will be there even if your car didnt come with it like mine did.

How does everything work?
Basically: Relser(iBus connected to car)->Pi->PiCan(Canbus connected to NBT and controller)

Took some work but I got signals for the steering wheel volume. PO snipped the iBus wire to install an aftermarket radio volume controller so it never worked. I had to rip all that out and connect steering wheel wire it to the iBus wire on the radio. Signals popped up right after that.
Haven't gotten the volume to turn up/down the NBT yet though.

The ATM is required for the EVO. The EVO does not have the GPS module built in to the headunit. BR and CS make Adapters for exactly this reason. I actually just tracked down an ATM today on eBay for a super reasonable price. There are 2 different versions. 1 is a black box version which had a very limited production run because they decided to go to a roof mounted one which is a white box. The reason they did this is because they wanted no resistance on the antenna to the ATM. But on regular BMW’s the ATM is responsible for NAV, all connected drive apps such as CarPlay, traffic, emergency services and online capabilities. Carplay is now a 1 time 300$ activation fee on a new BMW. Lots of people are retrofitting it though like you mentioned.
What I did for my mounting, (as pictured) I used the OEM nav brackets. Also have the carpet covering for it. Added aluminum bars and mounted it. I also put it in the direction of travel as there is controversy if it makes a difference or not.
You may want to try and track down an OEM NAV Mount and see if you can do the same
Once my experimental piece comes in, I’ll have a good idea where I am with the screen. As for the console, I have an idea. But not enough time in the day to execute

Yeah, I'll do either that or just design a bracket. Mine is loosely in the trunk for now. Also need to make a case for the pi.

[purplecty]

Wow this is super impressive! So your code needs to be imported into the Pi to allow everything for the NBT to function properly? I understand it has not been finalized yet...

[Hakeem530i]

Wow this is super impressive! So your code needs to be imported into the Pi to allow everything for the NBT to function properly? I understand it has not been finalized yet...

Yup that's correct. Pi also has WiFi so everyone should be able to update software as soon as I update my code.

To those that have done the retrofit, did you connect pin 13? Amp settings are coded and I'm Trying to figure out why I have no sound