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Thread: NBT/CIC/CCC retrofit in E39/E38/E53

  1. #1
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    NBT/CIC/CCC retrofit in E39/E38/E53

    Hey Guys,

    So, some of us have been having a discussion on doing this over on m5board.com (http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...rofit-e39.html), but I thought I'd open it up to you guys as well since I've finally found an off-the-shelf adapter that makes this retrofit as easy as making a screen bezel, cutting a whole in the center console trim, and running a display extension cord to the trunk. What I found was this: http://carsystems.com.ua/bmw-product...fit-adapter-en, which translates all the NBT (Next Best Thing - successor to CIC 2012+) CAN messages to IBUS and vice-versa. This allows full integration into our older cars including the car diagnostics and seat, climate controls, etc. It costs 400 Euros + 12 Euros for shipping to the US, but they said that if there are several of us that want them, they can make them at a discount. They are all made to order and they have a 12 day lead time on them. The 8.8" lcd screen fits within the frame that surrounds our widescreen nav, though it might need a bit of filling of holes and such. Keep in mind that once you have the main system working, you can add any of the add-on components from the newer cars and connect them using the MOST bus. Oh, and this adapter treats the DSP amplifier as the TOP-HIFI used in the newer cars.

    They also have an adapter that works with the CIC system, but I don't know how much it costs.

    Pretty cool to have the 2012+ system running in our cars that go back as far as 1995

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
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  2. #2
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    I like this idea. Retaining the use of the OBC is important to some of us. The fact that it might cost a little more than the N6, or even an MKIV install, is offset by the fact that this is better in many ways.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Beemers View Post
    I like this idea. Retaining the use of the OBC is important to some of us. The fact that it might cost a little more than the N6, or even an MKIV install, is offset by the fact that this is better in many ways.
    Yeah, it may be about $1400-1500 total cost, but what you get is way more refined and better looking than aftermarket, while offering most of the options people are looking for in a modern car.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  4. #4
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    This is the kind of work that moves the ball forward!
    You are a true pioneer.

  5. #5
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    Well, there is still some custom work to be done if someone was going to do this. The monitor frame needs to be adapted and someone needs to make a custom extended monitor cable to go from the trunk to the dash. Some guys on a Russian forum did this in their E53 X5s, but they used CICs instead of NBTs. The guy making the IBUS adapter said that he didn't think the cable could be more than 1m, but he didn't know for sure. Either way, it needs to be a shielded 4 conductor cable for video and 2 additional power wires, but they have a crazy connector on each end. I'm thinking a long VGA cable could work, but it might be possible to use a HDMI cable and cut the ends off. It's RGB+GND for the 4 conductors, so I don't know how critical it is to be such a short distance. Then there is figuring out where to mount the controller in the console. The X5 has a large cup holder location that works well, but we don't have that luxury in our e39s and e38s, though there might be a location to the right of the shifter.

    The link to the Russian forum is: http://translate.googleusercontent.c...qthj_wO23EhOtw

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  6. #6
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    If the IBUS vid line signal level is so low that the cable length is limited to 1 meter, then maybe a vid amplifier circuit inline would help that. Any measurements for the controller?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Beemers View Post
    If the IBUS vid line signal level is so low that the cable length is limited to 1 meter, then maybe a vid amplifier circuit inline would help that. Any measurements for the controller?
    The problem is not with the IBUS adapter, it's the cable that goes from the NBT unit to the display. This is a BMW cable and it assumes that the NBT unit is in the dash like the newer cars and the display sits above it. We don't have the room to install the NBT unit in the dash. Also, I think just a good shielded cable with the proper ends on it in the length we need would be fine, but we just don't know until someone makes one and tries it.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  8. #8
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    Oh, I thought he meant that making the cable longer would result in too much signal loss. Cat 6a cable should handle the shielding needs better than anything, much better specs than 5 or 6. I have some for testing if needed. How big is the controller mechanism? (console)
    Last edited by Da Beemers; 01-14-2015 at 01:48 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Beemers View Post
    Oh, I thought he meant that making the cable longer would result in too much signal loss. Cat 6a cable should handle the shielding needs better than anything, much better specs than 5 or 6. I have some for testing if needed.
    Well, we still need to figure out how to put the crazy BMW connectors on the ends. Look for a pic online and you'll see what I mean.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  10. #10
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    If the connector is that big of a pain then a soldered splice would do I would think, but I doubt they make a cable I can't handle I would be happy to make the cable.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Beemers View Post
    If the connector is that big of a pain then a soldered splice would do I would think, but I doubt they make a cable I can't handle I would be happy to make the cable.
    Sweet. You might also be able to modify the NBT usb cable. It also uses a similar connector and is probably longer.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  12. #12
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    If the guy on the other thread is ready to go with this, let me know. I'm not even sure if I'm a member on that forum or not.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Beemers View Post
    If the guy on the other thread is ready to go with this, let me know. I'm not even sure if I'm a member on that forum or not.
    Will do. He may not need me to do anything for him though since this adapter should do everything. He is probably going to be doing the fabricating or find someone local that can. I was going to work on an IBUS-TO-CAN adapter, but that was before I realized someone already made one.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  14. #14
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    Looking forward to seeing this work!

  15. #15
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    Another option is to somehow mount the 8.8" screen from a F30 that sticks out the top of the dash and mount the NBT where our current display is. That way you still get access to the CD/DVD drive and the number buttons, just like the newer cars do. This will take a bit more fabrication and might look weird if not done right since the buttons will look more modern than the rest of the car. Of course, you could find a way to keep the buttons on our current widescreen and adapt them to the NBT controls.

    The screen might look something like this:

    Last edited by blackknight530i; 01-14-2015 at 04:12 PM.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  16. #16
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    That would be a lot more work, but would look great if done right. I would rather have the display in normal location with the NBT in the glove box. Other than the control knob being different, everything else would look, and work, just like stock.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Beemers View Post
    That would be a lot more work, but would look great if done right. I would rather have the display in normal location with the NBT in the glove box. Other than the control knob being different, everything else would look, and work, just like stock.
    I just found this PDF on HSD cables and they say the limit for length is 10m, so I don't see why we couldn't make this happen putting it in the trunk.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...KnbDBw&cad=rja

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  18. #18
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    That cable is almost as good as cat 6a (6a has an extra drain wire). So now we know the length for a trunk install is no problem.

  19. #19
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    Hey guys, so I was reading the translated Russian site again and I found out that the guys were using the USB (HSD cable) and modifying the ends to work for the monitor. They provided this part number (61 11 9 183 946) which is a 4.5 meter cable, which in my opinion would work fine for our cars. If they can reach the back of a X5, I think they can reach the back of an e39 or e38. You'll still need to provide the two wires for the power, but those are just riding along the cable and can be provided with any 2 conductor cable. Anyways, just wanted to provide an update.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  20. #20
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    Already started mine in the e39
    Mine being a 1998 model I have to extend it and wire a 40 pins quadlock to it. No big deal. Work in progress

    Attached Images Attached Images
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWPlanetDude View Post
    Already started mine in the e39
    Mine being a 1998 model I have to extend it and wire a 40 pins quadlock to it. No big deal. Work in progress

    Awesome!

    What's the workaround on the MOST connectors - OLD style 17 Pin and 40 pin version.

    Is the Fibre optic connected straight to the CID from the NBT module?
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jopecasa View Post
    Awesome!

    What's the workaround on the MOST connectors - OLD style 17 Pin and 40 pin version.

    Is the Fibre optic connected straight to the CID from the NBT module?
    Fiber optic doesn't go to the monitor. MOST fits inside the quadlock connector in the 40 pin version.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  23. #23
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    Ok but still confused....see the rear of the NBT.

    I do not need this connected..... if say no TCU module.

    Is this correct?

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jopecasa View Post
    Ok but still confused....see the rear of the NBT.

    I do not need this connected..... if say no TCU module.

    Is this correct?

    The MOST bus is used for additional devices like TCU and such, but I think the NBT has it internal as well as Sirius, DVD player, etc. The CD/DVD changer that would normally be connected separately would be on the MOST bus as well as the TOP-HIFI amplifier, but you will likely be using the wires on the quadlock for audio channels, so you won't need that either. If you were retrofitting the Logic7 amp from the newer cars, you would hook that up using MOST. Also, normally, you would have a rearview camera connected over the MOST bus (I think), but with the carsystems NBT-to-IBUS adapter that it looks like you have you can connect any aftermarket camera. Basically, you shouldn't need anything plugged into the MOST bus to make the system work. What you will need is a cable that goes from the ping star-quad cable on the left of the picture to the monitor that is long enough to reach from the trunk area to the dash. What some people have done in the X5 is buy the E70 USB cable (I provided a part number for it above) and shave off the key tabs around the connector and plug it into the monitor connector. Then you'll need to figure out how to run the two power wires that are to the right of the round connector. They do not need to be in side the quad-star cable and just need to be basic 2 conductor wire.

    Read this thread if you need help: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=799458

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
    2006 Porsche Cayman S - Soul Performance Competition Headers and Exhaust, H&R Coilovers, 718 Boxster Spyder wheels, Rennline 35mm rear spacers

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
    The MOST bus is used for additional devices like TCU and such, but I think the NBT has it internal as well as Sirius, DVD player, etc. The CD/DVD changer that would normally be connected separately would be on the MOST bus as well as the TOP-HIFI amplifier, but you will likely be using the wires on the quadlock for audio channels, so you won't need that either. If you were retrofitting the Logic7 amp from the newer cars, you would hook that up using MOST. Also, normally, you would have a rearview camera connected over the MOST bus (I think), but with the carsystems NBT-to-IBUS adapter that it looks like you have you can connect any aftermarket camera. Basically, you shouldn't need anything plugged into the MOST bus to make the system work. What you will need is a cable that goes from the ping star-quad cable on the left of the picture to the monitor that is long enough to reach from the trunk area to the dash. What some people have done in the X5 is buy the E70 USB cable (I provided a part number for it above) and shave off the key tabs around the connector and plug it into the monitor connector. Then you'll need to figure out how to run the two power wires that are to the right of the round connector. They do not need to be in side the quad-star cable and just need to be basic 2 conductor wire.

    Read this thread if you need help: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=799458
    Yeah the NBT will run just fine without MOST and the activation adapter.
    It has BT built-in so you can use handsfree and music streaming from the phone no problem.
    The camera connects to the NBT directly (2 pins) to the NBT but it is linked to the PDC module in later E series, not sure about the E39.
    BMW OSS Master - BMW Coding, flashing, and NBT/CIC retrofits for breakfast.
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