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Thread: NBT/CIC/CCC retrofit in E39/E38/E53

  1. #1301
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWPlanetDude View Post
    Not for E38 iDrive bezel for e39 yet - - - Updated - - - Guys, finalising F10 screen bezel for e39. Just going for painting. I have another OEM screen bezel for the e38 too, I know there is a long lip on top (or bottom) But if you fit the e39 screen bezel in the e38, what happens, is there a big gap somewhere on top or bottom? I am asking cause I am hoping to kill 2 birds with one shot and if the e39 I have made fits the e38 to a good and looks well, then I am done and can mass produce bezels.
    I think they are really close. The e53 one looks weird in an e38 though.

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    Ok so I made a screen bezel by hand
    Turned out well.

    Needs primer/paint but this is it
    I ordered more parts so next week I will have 2 more bezels. Based on demand, I can make more.
    This is a lot of work, especially sanding.

    If you use the F10 screen, you will need to cut the parts are highlighted in the picture below.
    The fitting is otherwise perfect, the F10 screen will sit flush once those things are cut off. No gap around the screen and the bezel itself.





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    looking forward to the finished product, it looks kinda rough right now but that will go away with primer and paint i assume.

    have you considered using it to make a silicone cast and then use that to make cast-resin replicates? they'd be pretty durable and you make a bunch of them very easily
    Last edited by joekitch; 09-09-2015 at 02:35 PM.
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    Hopefully E46 Fascia is ready too!

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    Hi

    Informational update for you all - whilst the OEM widescreen monitor in the E39, E38 and E53 are all shared/the same, the outer trim ring for them are unique to each. This is so that the trim ring can exactly match the specific interior dashboard shapes of each car. I have each of the 3 outer trim/ring pieces and also they're each slightly differently sized as well;



    The pic above shows all 3, the E39 one is at the bottom, then the E38 version, then the E53 on top.

    Another angle;



    Although hard to see in this picture, there's some mm differences in the widths and heights of each piece too;



    Intermixing any of those into another series BMW's interior will look 'wrong'.

    It's a cool modification for sure as I've mentioned previously, but this thread shows there's a lot of issues/potential niggles etc and serves as a public beta / development thread to get it all working well, properly and reliably. Hats off to you guys for working through it over all these months so far!

    Cheers, Dennis!

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    Dennis, are those for the wider monitors or OE pieces?
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  7. #1307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
    Dennis, are those for the wider monitors or OE pieces?

    Those look like the stock widescreen monitor trims installed in all cars from 01 on.

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    I was asking if he had modified them. I doubt it, but wanted clarification.
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    Hi,

    Redshift - They're OEM pieces that go around the oem Widescreens in E39's, E38's and E53's. They're not for the NBT screens. I've shown them to highlight the difference in the visible shape when viewing in the cabin. Modifying them by adding more filler etc, means each one made needs to be done to whichever application anyone wants to fit this modification to.

    Joekitch & everyone else - I have a genuine Janus Design E39 double DIN fascia piece here which I think has been made using the method you describe. It's very 'solid' indeed, so would be good for this project as a 'low volume' production solution. The development cost would be for a mould that can hold the later BMW NBT monitors needed and I'd say it'd be wise to design in such a way that it securely holds the monitor panel and can be affixed to the car's dash pieces securely too. The 'balancing act' is how much the development for such a piece's mould costs and how many pieces need to be made per production run. Given that there's only a handful of enthusiasts who'll perhaps go for this retrofit, then the cost per fascia will be relatively high - off the top of my head perhaps $250-300+ USD based on perhaps 25 or so pieces made? any less than that number, I'd say the price would push up significantly. Costs for the development of the mould itself would be additional and of course would one needs to be made for the E39, E38, E53 and E46 (perhaps any others too)

    There's a company very close to me that I've spoken to previously which can do low volume production runs, say around 20-25 pieces and using the resin material. I can take the Janus Design fascia piece I have and show them and get prices if all you guys want me to?

    Cheers, Dennis!

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    Here are some finalized photos of my installation as it sits now. I may try to mess with the iDrive controller this week to see if I can get it flush mounted, but in reality there won't be time because we have a ton to do before the big road trip and I just can't see spending much time on this part of the project since it's not required for the trip:




    The screen bezel needs some work (or a new proper bezel) but really, it looks 95% fine for now. It won't move so besides not fitting quite right and seeing the lower edge of the monitor itself, it's really not bad.
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    Looks awesome and totally has me interested in this again.

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    Hello everyone, i'm planning to upgrade my MK4 in RangeRover to iDrive, I want to do this proper, so i have few questions:

    I'm afraid about my DSP.I like this sound and the surround effect, and want to keep it so what should i do?

    1. Connect Logic7 to speakers in Range Rover with DSP(11 speakers + subwoofer connected as two speakers). The main problem is that DSP have 10 outputs (center speaker connected as bridged front midranges) + sub and newer Logic7 have less outputs with different filters / crossovers.

    2. maybe there is any way to get signals from MOST, convert to analog 2 channel stereo + control signals and adapt standard DSP to act as Logic7 amplifier?

    3. Or simply use some analog amplifiers with crossovers? Code NBT as Hifi - it gives me equalizer, but i will lost surround effect (called "room" in DSP) right? but here problem - how connect speakers to them, what crossovers / filters should i use with this speakers? I can't find any information about DSP output parameters (frequencies for every output)

    What version of hardware is the best choice? I should buy HW's <10 with integrated accelerometer to keep dead reckoning GPS or this adapter gets values from DSC module and gives it to NBT?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redshift View Post

    This is 8.8 or 10 inch screen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmie86 View Post
    Hello everyone, i'm planning to upgrade my MK4 in RangeRover to iDrive, I want to do this proper, so i have few questions:

    I'm afraid about my DSP.I like this sound and the surround effect, and want to keep it so what should i do?

    1. Connect Logic7 to speakers in Range Rover with DSP(11 speakers + subwoofer connected as two speakers). The main problem is that DSP have 10 outputs (center speaker connected as bridged front midranges) + sub and newer Logic7 have less outputs with different filters / crossovers.

    2. maybe there is any way to get signals from MOST, convert to analog 2 channel stereo + control signals and adapt standard DSP to act as Logic7 amplifier?

    3. Or simply use some analog amplifiers with crossovers? Code NBT as Hifi - it gives me equalizer, but i will lost surround effect (called "room" in DSP) right? but here problem - how connect speakers to them, what crossovers / filters should i use with this speakers? I can't find any information about DSP output parameters (frequencies for every output)

    What version of hardware is the best choice? I should buy HW's <10 with integrated accelerometer to keep dead reckoning GPS or this adapter gets values from DSC module and gives it to NBT?


    This is 8.8 or 10 inch screen?
    Since you have a Range Rover, you could probably put the Logic 7 amp from the later model into yours, but you'll need to figure out the wiring for the speakers if they aren't the same. The Logic7 amp would connect using the MOST bus, not the big quadlock connector. Another option to have DSP is to use something like the MoBridge (pricey!), which converts the NBT signals to either Toslink or analog, depending on model, but they only maintain the stock NBT DSP settings, which might sound weird with your speaker setup (unconfirmed). There is another MoBridge unit called the DA3 that has toslink and analog output channels and has a PC application to configure time delay and other DSP functions that would not be controlled by the head unit.

    You could use Hifi or highpremium, but neither gives you EQ settings, just tone settings. Most people are using this option, except for the people that keep their stock DSP amp, in which case they use tophifi, which uses a fixed output and the steering wheel controls increase/decrease the volume in the amp itself. Also, if you use the hifi or high premium with an aftermarket 4 channel amp, you'll need either the PCN from G.A.S. or some other set of passive crossovers that are designed for your speakers. In any of these cases though, you lose the "DSP" room stuff, unless you don't plan on changing it. Basically, you set it before you swap the NBT in and you won't be able to change it again, without hooking up your old setup again. Again, this is only if you keep your stock DSP amp installed.

    Best version of the hardware is pretty much any of the newer ones. The adapters properly translate the DSC signals, negating the need for the internal gyro in the older versions. Older ones are well... older, and will likely fail before the newer ones.

    Also, the pictured screen is the 10.25" screen from a F15 X5.

    -Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackknight530i View Post
    Since you have a Range Rover, you could probably put the Logic 7 amp from the later model into yours, but you'll need to figure out the wiring for the speakers if they aren't the same.
    So every logic7 amplifier with MOST will work with NBT, even not from BMW? and will give surround and EQ functions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmie86 View Post
    So every logic7 amplifier with MOST will work with NBT, even not from BMW? and will give surround and EQ functions?
    No, bmw/range rover logic7 are the same, but not all logic7 amps are the same.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
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  16. #1316
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    even that newer Range with MOST has Ford Infotainment system? I agree, with older ones, but the newer looks diferent. I think that the best solution in this case will be JBL MS-8 + crossover

  17. #1317
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmie86 View Post
    even that newer Range with MOST has Ford Infotainment system? I agree, with older ones, but the newer looks diferent. I think that the best solution in this case will be JBL MS-8 + crossover
    2005 was still bmw.

    MS-8 has crossovers built-in.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
    2005 Range Rover 4.6is (M62TU Powered) - 4.6is Engine Swap from X5, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto
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  18. #1318
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    Hi,

    Is there any interest about me going into seeing the local specialist manufacturing company about making some high quality screen holder/bezels? I do know of one more specialist as well so can get a couple of quotes etc depending on what design route is decided upon here for comparison sakes ?

    Looking at recent updates, then it seems an F10, F30 and F15 screen/monitor unit can be used. Once their specific panels are removed, is each screen the same dimensions etc? or are they different? If theyre the same, then any manufactured bezel will be able to have the same design at the rear to hold the screen securely in place and only the front will need to be shaped to match the E39/E38/E53 (might as well include the E46 as well?) If each screen is differently sized etc, then a bezel would need to be made for each size of screen and for each BMW variant as well.

    Is there any pricing for the hand made, filler and sanding method made solution pictured above been provided as yet?

    Cheers, Dennis!

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    Definitely need a bezel made for the E46 with 8.8" screen...only thing I've been waiting on. Lots of friends along with those on M3Forum and E46Fanatics won't touch this unless it's got a nice bezel made...which mine was supposed to be done months ago.

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    Anyone with BMW e38 who wants a proper 10.2" screen bezel for their NBT, I will need this piece in order to provide you with a finished product

    So if you have one laying around, ship it to me. Bezels for E46 and e39 are 160 euros to your doors. About 180 USD
    Bezels for E38 will be the same price if you provide me with the MK4 radio surround from your e38. Otherwise price will be 55 euros more, at 215 euros, or 240 USD since I need to buy the brand new surround from BMW.

    This is what I need for the e38. Get in touch if you want one and can ship this to me.

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    Been reading through all 53 pages of this thread a bit here and there when time permits. Nice to see that there is firmware that allows the use of the NBT knob/switch panel, but this only seems useful if the NBT unit could be mounted in the dash where the 16:9 display previously resided, with the NBT knob/switch panel in front of it (it has a DVD slot right?) and the CID mounted higher on the dash like BMWPlanetDude has his.

    I know due to space restraints, the NBT main unit can't really be mounted in the dash, but how big is it compared to, say…the average double din aftermarket multimedia head unit? Typically these are installed by cutting out a portion of the HVAC box behind the head unit and covering the hole with a sectioned filler plate to make room for the back of the double din unit. I imagine the same could be done to make room for the NBT unit, no? If that's possible, this is probably the route I would pursue once the time comes for me to undertake this upgrade (which will probably be a while)...
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  22. #1322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mpowered02 View Post
    Been reading through all 53 pages of this thread a bit here and there when time permits. Nice to see that there is firmware that allows the use of the NBT knob/switch panel, but this only seems useful if the NBT unit could be mounted in the dash where the 16:9 display previously resided, with the NBT knob/switch panel in front of it (it has a DVD slot right?) and the CID mounted higher on the dash like BMWPlanetDude has his.

    I know due to space restraints, the NBT main unit can't really be mounted in the dash, but how big is it compared to, say…the average double din aftermarket multimedia head unit? Typically these are installed by cutting out a portion of the HVAC box behind the head unit and covering the hole with a sectioned filler plate to make room for the back of the double din unit. I imagine the same could be done to make room for the NBT unit, no? If that's possible, this is probably the route I would pursue once the time comes for me to undertake this upgrade (which will probably be a while)...
    Yeah it will fit if you cut behind, more or less the same as a double din unit
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  23. #1323
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    original DSP have 10 for speakers - front low, mid, tweeter, rear low/high, center speaker connected as bridged front midrange speakers + 4 channels to subwoofer
    to install MS-8 it is necessary to make some extra crossovers, and maybe extra amplifiers
    I will try to measure output frequency ranges on every output this week

    eventually i think that most logic7 will be fine, but witch one? there are few versions, the oldest one from BMW don't have i-bus/MOST, and at least two newer with MOST. But none of them looks like bmw logic7 units.
    From other hand bmw has different speaker array, so it's not to good idea to install it in Range - no low range speakers, two central sub's in front

    Please forgive me for offtopic, but i want to upgrade my infotainment system, not downgrade
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by jimmie86; 09-23-2015 at 01:55 PM.

  24. #1324
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmie86 View Post
    original DSP have 10 for speakers - front low, mid, tweeter, rear low/high, center speaker connected as bridged front midrange speakers + 4 channels to subwoofer
    to install MS-8 it is necessary to measure output frequency ranges on every output - i will try to do this this week
    so extra crossovers are mandatory
    eventually i think that most logic7 will be fine, but witch one? there are few versions, the oldest one from BMW don't have i-bus/MOST, and at least two newer with MOST. But none of them looks like bmw logic7 units.

    Please forgive me for offtopic, but i want to upgrade my infotainment system, not downgrade
    None of the bmw logic7 amps have ibus, that's not a problem because the nbt uses the most bus, which all of the bmw logic7 amps have. The head unit in the 2005 RR is kind of a hybrid and not used in other bmw models as it does use the most bus.

    -Paul
    2003 "M5" - Full M5 conversion, AMG C63S 6 piston front calipers, Porsche Panamera 4 piston rear calipers, GC Coilovers,
    Eibach ARBs, UUC Evo3/DSSR, Borla Exhaust w/Muffler Delete, BMW NBT with Carplay/Android Auto, Bi-Xenons, e38 Style 37 M-Pars, e60 Hubs 530i 6-speed swap build thread
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  25. #1325
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    long story short: logic7 with MOST from 2005 RR with the very first touch screen will work with NBT?
    like this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/RANGE-ROVER-...-/221620455135

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