Dyno day for the M60B44

[nonturbodan]

Thanks for the info Dan, i know what you mean. Once you start approaching 300hp its hard to feel small power differences in the butt dyno. I do like the intake sound, so i'll prob run the early manifold for now.

Are you running a basically stock exhaust with a flow master muffler, or is it all custom? my stock exhaust is getting crusty, im debating cutting the cats off, deleting the resonator and replacing with a cross over x pipe, then out to a muffler in the stock location. Basically following the factory exhaust routing, i'm thinking 2 1/4" would be a good diameter for the pipes. Also deleting the fan/clutch for a volvo 850 electric fan, hoping to free up a few more ponies. Any video clips of how your car sounds?

My exhaust is stock back to just after the oxygen sensors. From there it goes to a Flowmaster Y-pipe into a 3" single exhaust. Before the rear subframe I have a Flowmaster 3 chamber muffler 3" in and out and a Magnaflow 3" single in/out in the back. It used to be just the Magnaflow in the back which was pretty damn loud. The Flowmaster quieted it down quite a bit but its possible I lost a few HP in the process. Thats the only thing that changed other than the motor between the 266rwhp M60B40 dyno and the 280rwhp M60B44 dyno. I'm happy with the trade-off even if that is the case.

[david klint]

You could also try to quite it down with a X-pipe, when I installed mine it made a big difference with the drone sound, it also sounds like more rev's, I like it, I have no idea what it does power wise, it does feel like the power comes on more smoothly and stretches higher in the revs, my torque curve looks kinda straight compared to other m60 dynos, I'm curious how you wil like your engine Mboor! Keep us posted, I'm building a new Cai now and hope to have my WAR chip tuned the next few month, my goal is 300rwhp

[mboor]

Installing an X pipe will smooth out the uneven exhaust pulses that are inherent in a V8 engine. If the rest of the exhaust is up to snuff, it should aid in air flow through the exhaust, creating a marginal increase in power. It also smooths out the sound of the exhaust and should quiet up up a little. They always made a difference on the old american V8's i grew up with, so im expecting a similar result.

I'm really looking forward to getting this engine back in the car and running, as usual it's taking 3 times longer than anticipated. This time it was finding an extended T50 torx socket for the flywheel bolts. Now that i have that, the engine should be going back in very soon. My goal is also 300whp, I think its going to be hard without a custom dyno tune for this engine set up, but i think the power is IN there. I'm hoping to squeeze out 5-10HP with removing the cats/custom exhaust, a fan delete and maybe underdrive pulleys.

David, im curious how you will make out with the WAR chip. I've heard that someone makes an actual custom M60B44 chip now, maybe it was mark D?

[lughed]

For all that chip tuning business and all the custom ca, you might as well go with ms2, spend a few months fighting resets, acquire the most through on the fly tuning and keep an eye on all your parameters that may be affected with each swap/upgrade

[nonturbodan]

I've been down that road with my old turbo e28. I considered it a necessary evil for the requirements of that project. The last thing I want to do is go through that all again when I may only gain a few HP.

Its different with boost. MS allows manifold pressure based load calculation which makes managing ignition advance very easy. The difference between what I could do with stock injection and Megasquirt in that instance was about 250 rwhp.

[swanni]

Very neat thread, I'm curious how much a m60b44 with a set of headers megasquirt, maybe some itb set up would make. Especially if the hp curve was raised up in the rpm with cam timing. I plan to do this swap in the future mostly just to experiment cause ill likely s62 swap my e34 540. was also looking into cam regrinds. Would be neat to see what's possible with an m60b44 if you put some nasty cams in it. Iv heard of people get 370 out of the m60b40 with 253 degree cams imagine 283 cams with decent lift and headers on m60b44 high compression engine would be pretty nasty

[swanni]

Bump, again interesting thread hopefully start it up, just got a m60b44 swppped 540, it almost feels slower after 5500 than my b40 car, but from 2500 to 55 its got alot more torque. Probably get ms3x in the future so i can properly tune it

[murda91]

Any updates on this? New m60b44 dynos? I will be starting the build to replace the rod knocking m62b44 in my e30.

[UnrulyGrace]

I'm working on some data logging to dial in my tune, then I will be strapping the car to a dyno to see what she does.

[david klint]

Hi guys,
Im not around a lot on this forum but I wanted to share with you guys the dyno result I got with my m60b44 on a dynapack dyno.
You can see the 2 different runs, the first is the run I did with my old ebay m60b40 chip, the highest run is on the miller war chip, which they fully tuned.
best run was 350.7hp and 511nm, not bad at all.
its a b62 block with m60 heads
V-stack inlet manifold with big k&n airfilter and heatshield
200 cell racecats into a xpipe, to custom silencer.
I used the original (updated) timing blocks used on the m62.

just one issue now with the miller war chip, I cannot get rid of the speedlimiter which kicks in at 215kmh, around 5400rpm, any ideas?

dynorun.jpg

[moroza]

Is that at the wheels, or corrected for flywheel power/torque?

I removed my speed limiter by cutting the black/white wire at pin 42 on the DME. I felt like a secret agent boss telling some underling, "Sorry, you're on a need-to-know basis"; there is no need for a manual DME to know how fast the vehicle is going. Top speed went from 230kph to somewhere over 250.

[UnrulyGrace]

Is that at the wheels, or corrected for flywheel power/torque?

I removed my speed limiter by cutting the black/white wire at pin 42 on the DME. I felt like a secret agent boss telling some underling, "Sorry, you're on a need-to-know basis"; there is no need for a manual DME to know how fast the vehicle is going. Top speed went from 230kph to somewhere over 250.

Curious about the dyno results as well. Mine put down 327RWHP and 345RWTQ with a very similar setup.

[4dri4n]

The DME apparently isn't actively looking for them as I do not have any codes stored or check engine light. I'd have to check a knock sensor with a multimeter to be sure but I suspect plugged in or not the DME would just see an open circuit until they generated a signal. In the absence of that signal it functions the same as it would if no knock were occurring. No audible detonation has occurred, the plugs look good and most importantly the head gaskets and ring lands are holding, so I do believe detonation is not an issue. I am also at ~5500 feet so I only have about 83% of the air I would at sea level. The downside of the high altitude is that the best fuel I can easily find is 90 or 91 AKI. Lower elevations usually have 93 so the altitude may be irrelevant in terms of knock as long as premium fuel is used where ever you are.

High altitude makes your car trap less air inside the combustion chamber and so is less likely that detonation occurs as it is the same effect as it would have if you lowered your compression ratio. This is probably why less octane rating is needed in fuel at this altitudes.
Are you sure about what you are saying about knock sensors? Because I replaced mine when they were cracked and kt really made a HUUGE difference. Night and day. And it was a 525i m50tu. Suddenly it had torque available and you could easily climb hills with high gears at low rpms.
AFAIK knock sensors are piezo electric sensors and therefore they should be able to "listen" any kind of vibration. It makes sense to me that, as long as the voltage sign created by this "noise" is within an acceptable range, then the ECU wont pull out timing.
To me, I understand it does monitor this signal constantly. You could easily check it with an oscilloscope. Because when my sensors where cracked it was obvious that the ECU retarded ignition in order to protect the engine from knocking.

[Smoky540i]

That's impressive. I had no idea you could make well over 300 hp with this hybrid engine!

Also, what are the original (updated) timing blocks for the M62? Are they just the standard M62 timing blocks with some kind of upgrade? I have a set of GAS M62 timing blocks, would those work?

Hi guys,
Im not around a lot on this forum but I wanted to share with you guys the dyno result I got with my m60b44 on a dynapack dyno.
You can see the 2 different runs, the first is the run I did with my old ebay m60b40 chip, the highest run is on the miller war chip, which they fully tuned.
best run was 350.7hp and 511nm, not bad at all.
its a b62 block with m60 heads
V-stack inlet manifold with big k&n airfilter and heatshield
200 cell racecats into a xpipe, to custom silencer.
I used the original (updated) timing blocks used on the m62.

just one issue now with the miller war chip, I cannot get rid of the speedlimiter which kicks in at 215kmh, around 5400rpm, any ideas?

dynorun.jpg

[Creaver]

That would be calculated engine power. Pretty good

[E.Roy]

My exhaust is stock back to just after the oxygen sensors. From there it goes to a Flowmaster Y-pipe into a 3" single exhaust. Before the rear subframe I have a Flowmaster 3 chamber muffler 3" in and out and a Magnaflow 3" single in/out in the back. It used to be just the Magnaflow in the back which was pretty damn loud. The Flowmaster quieted it down quite a bit but its possible I lost a few HP in the process. Thats the only thing that changed other than the motor between the 266rwhp M60B40 dyno and the 280rwhp M60B44 dyno. I'm happy with the trade-off even if that is the case.

Thanks for posting the results so I could read it 5 years later, long live forums! I would bet that Flow Master muffler killed 10-20 HP easy, chambered mufflers are junk design. Straight through Borla or Magnaflow are the only way to go.

In Engine Masters episode 49, they dyno'd a bunch of mufflers on a 408ci Cleveland engine breathing through two 2.5" mufflers.
Baseline 2.5" extension pipes: 607hp
Oval case straight thru mufflers: 605hp
4 different brands of chamber mufflers: only made between 540-548hp a shocking loss of 60 hp (10%)

We have all heard that an engine is just an air pump, and I have learned is that is absolutely true. It's all about flow, velocity, cylinder filling and not having one part of the total engine system holding back performance.

Another thing that can make a few hp (and save your engine on track) is a colder thermostat. I bought a Motorad 174*F (79*C) tstat, instead of the 203*F (95*C) tstat that was installed in my car.
Colder coolant means colder head ports and cylinders, which allows a denser charge for better cylinder filling.

I just got a project 540i/6, and I haven't driven it yet, but here is my plan to make as much hp as I can with the m60b40:
*Early b40 intake manifold
*ASC elbow delete
*mechanical fan delete
*AEM dryflow 3.5x9" filter to test first, then likely going to a 3.5 to 7" velocity stack with appropriate filter. Proper V-stack bellmouth design is an inlet about double the tube size
*M62 throttle body or tb plate
*Chip of some type, one came with a 2nd computer, but have yet to open it up to see what the chip is
*Stock cats were removed by a previous owner, I already have a true racing merge collector with 3.5" outlet, and a 3.5" race cat, and two Borla XR1 3.5" round mufflers.
Plan is stock mid pipes into the merge collector into 3.5" race cat with 1st muffler right behind it, then 3.5" pipe back under axle, then the 2nd Borla 3.5 into a 4" tip. Bimmerworld makes 3.5" race exhausts for the M3s, so a 4.0 or 4.4 V8 definitely can use all of a single 3.5" exhaust.

[moroza]

Another thing that can make a few hp (and save your engine on track) is a colder thermostat. I bought a Motorad 174*F (79*C) tstat, instead of the 203*F (95*C) tstat that was installed in my car.
Colder coolant means colder head ports and cylinders, which allows a denser charge for better cylinder filling.

Generally speaking, at what point does the increase in charge density overcome the decrease in thermal efficiency?

[m60power]

Generally speaking, at what point does the increase in charge density overcome the decrease in thermal efficiency?

I'm curious about this too.

[DarkSideofWill]

Thermal efficiency is calculated relative to *absolute* temperature, so a 10C change in engine temp is a very small %