Francois' long term v8 project (PIC HEAVY)

[ButteDorFrank]

well I've been on the forum and on the legion group on facebook for a while and never really made a post about my e21 cause I had too many projects on the go all at once. But now since I've mostly finished my new Garage and house renovations, I'll be able to start wrenching on my "no deadline" project.

I'll start by introducing myself and my story I guess. I'm from the east coast of Canada, and moved to the West coast (5500km away from home) for better work opportunities in the oil fields. I'm a little bit of a jack of all trades, master of none. worked in many different fields, Growing up I'd be a labor for my dad as a Carpenter, went to University for two years as a mechanical engineer, quit that and went to college to become an Industrial Engineering Technologist. 3 years ago, moved out west, and opportunities presented themself so I studied some more to become a welding inspector, and also an IRATA tech. I'm born in 1987, and always liked cars and anything with an engine, but it's only in 2008 that I bought my first car (was into motorcycle prior). I've had around 25 different vehicles since then, lost count, mostly volkswagens tho. I was looking to get into something else and got this e21 for 3800$ (way too much)

I bought my car on November 1st, 2012
It had been restored by previous owner in a time span of 8 years.

here's what it loooked like when I got it:





it has an m10 bored out to 2.1, high compression piston, 28X cam (can't remember the actual number), I also have a spare 309 cam, DCOE 45 weber carb, header, vented front disc, strut brace, front and rear swaybar (not sure if it is factory on all e21 to have a rear swaybar) H&R springs, and OPEN diff ...



got the car home and the first thing I did was remove the purple tinted windows



and since it is carburated and open diff, I parked it next to the house for the winter



during the long winter time I started shopping around for some stuff because I couldn't help but to hate the way that car looked. I bought new wheels and some euro goodies from Jeroen on this forum. (forget his username at the moment), he was really helpfull and got me everything I needed.



when the snow started to melt I began to install the new parts. I did a write up on the forum on how I installed my front euro bumper on a US car.






complete eurometric bushings


then I still wasn't happy on how high the car was so I cut out some of the coils and slapped on some old vw rims I had laying around. drove it like that for a bit, switching back and forth from vw wheels to bmw wheels.











that was still not low enough so I ended up cutting some more coils



got my wheels back together, tires mounted, and installed on the car. Drove it like that for the summer until it broke down and I park it again.






















Ever since I drove it for the first time I hated the m10 engine and the carburator. so I've been reading and studying alot on engine swap.
I have a goal of 400hp, and I knew I had to do something about the weak rear end components. so I picked up an e28 eta for 1500$ with plans to drive it during winter, but I started having fuel issues so I didn't drive it for long either. so now I have a LSD, rear wheel disc brakes, and stronger half shaft. down side is that I needed to sell my Epsilons.






so I bought some more wheels that will fit the 5x120 discs. (16x7 Epsilons, 15x8 trans am turbo wheels, and some other 16x7 bmw wheels)





after all that research I decided to go with a GM LQ4 6.0 litre v8



it will be a long and slow project, but I'll be starting to wrench on it soon ... meanwhile, the girlfriend picked up an 1983 for 150$ , I'm gonna put all my good parts on it and she'll daily drive that while I fix my one.

[OLD MAN]

Your car looks good - you have done lots of work to it. looking forward to updates.

[revolve40]

Those epsilons were stunning. Looking forward to this.

[Makr]

Looks good!

All those odd jobs and hands on work you have done will pay off big...now.

[ButteDorFrank]

yeah I LOVE the epsilons, the set I had were 15x7 front and 15x8.5 rear, 4x100 ... they were really nice, and a dream wheel of mine. I sold them to someone on the forum, the centers are now painted gold and they are still on a e21.


the set of 16x7 that I bought are 5x120, with bmw center caps (1 missing) ... once the car is all done, I'll be ordering custom lips to fit flush with the fenders.

I also forgot to mention I bought a complete iS car for parts, so I have a bunch of extra parts now too like iS steering wheel and non AC center console, rubber front lip... the LSD will most likely be going onto the girlfriends car, as I think hers is weak (she also has an iS) and between the two cars I think I can make one complete iS big tool kit in the trunk.

I bought some all black "leather" door cards from Dustin on the forum (forgot his username) and I'll be putting mk2 vw recaro trophys in my e21, put my beige recaro replica into the girlfriends car, and sell the stock e21 recaro (rough shape)

here's a video of my road trip to the mountains, camera was shaking because I didn't have the mount, passenger was holding it out the sunroof.


annnnd that's why my front valence is bent.

here's a video of the e28, I had to test out the LSD

[amarino]

Nice. My favorite pic is of the car in the shopping cart return thing.

[joshwhoe21]

This thing is going to be an absolute screamer. Im glad to see you got your shop up and running and Im really looking forward to seeing some progress on this badboy. I have a ton of parts to swap an LM7 and a Tremic TKO 5 speed into my old 242 GT. It will be nice to be able to bounce some ideas back and forth.

Best of luck to you. SUB'd

[ButteDorFrank]

Nice. My favorite pic is of the car in the shopping cart return thing.

Safest Parking spot in walmart !

This thing is going to be an absolute screamer. Im glad to see you got your shop up and running and Im really looking forward to seeing some progress on this badboy. I have a ton of parts to swap an LM7 and a Tremic TKO 5 speed into my old 242 GT. It will be nice to be able to bounce some ideas back and forth.

Best of luck to you. SUB'd

Thanks ! ... man that's sweet you're doing a swap like that ! ... I'll put together a shopping list with links of all the parts I want to get ... and if you know of a good place or better deals it would be sweet to know ! ... I'm gonna run L92 heads, ls3 intake, bigger cam, smaller oil pan, alternator relocator bracket, no power steering or AC, and a tremec TKO 600 most likely, unless I find a good deal on a t56... I roughly calculated about 4000$ of parts just for the transmission + clutch + etc. and something around 3000$ for engine components .... those are rough numbers tho, and I'm 95% sure I will go over budjet ... unless I get lucky and source all the parts second hand ... these are all price for new.

[joshwhoe21]

Im actually more excited to be doing the v8 swap in the volvo then I am finishing my 78 e21. The car is completely torn apart and back from paint. Now that the paint is paid off im focusing on building an m20b31 for the car. But once the e21 is done it will be balls to the wall on the volvo. As it stands I would say I need about $1,500 worth of junk to make the car run. Ill regrind the cam paired with some ls2 valve springs, hummer h3 or the GM "hotrod" pan, ls1 stick harness and pcm, alt and PS relocation brackets, throttle body and fuel rail.

As far as finding parts, the best places ive found are Craigslist, ls1tech, and ebay. Other than that im still kind of in the dark finding good deals on the stuff I need to finish this garbage. I also don't really know what a fair deal would be on most of this stuff. Im still in the homework stages of things.

[benjaminfrankln]

Looks good. I'm jelly of the turbo wheels. I have looked at those several times on eBay just dreaming of em haha.

[323i E30]

Awesome. Subscribed

[Tom D]

and non AC center console, ]

don't forget to remove the duct' elbow, it's more rare then the console.

[ButteDorFrank]

Looks good. I'm jelly of the turbo wheels. I have looked at those several times on eBay just dreaming of em haha.

I love turbo style wheels ... I had Compomotive turbo 14x8 on my mk1 jetta ... loved em, it's the wheels that made the car

don't forget to remove the duct' elbow, it's more rare then the console.

hemm , I think I grabbed it ... can't remember now, I basically took everything I could from the car and even sawzalled the whole car to save what I could... I'll have to check in the pile of parts !

[HipMF]

The turbo wheels in the trunk are factory rims on some 70s trans-ams. The casting quality was pretty poor on the ones I've seen, but I'm sure the could be cleaned up pretty easily. A much cheaper option than the vintage aftermarket ones.

[ButteDorFrank]

yeah they came on 1980 - 1981 trans am , those are the exact kind that I have, scoop them up for 100$ haha, alot cheaper then the rare 3 piece compomotive at 3000$ ...

there's some real nice cars in that garage ... are they yours ?

[lasvegascop]

Im not discouraging ya from V8 swap, but the weight is really gonna kill the full potential. At speed, the curves will be harder to take and car harder to control.....

If you want to build something bad ass, Google "mid engine E30" Haha.....if I were doing a V8 swap in the E21, that's what I'd be doing! Haha

[bassboy3313]

How are you gonna solve the rear end issue? The stock e21 diff and axles won't be able to handle the torque from a v8.

[ButteDorFrank]

Im not discouraging ya from V8 swap, but the weight is really gonna kill the full potential. At speed, the curves will be harder to take and car harder to control.....

If you want to build something bad ass, Google "mid engine E30" Haha.....if I were doing a V8 swap in the E21, that's what I'd be doing! Haha

yeah I have seen lots of comments and concern about the weight, but I have done a little bit of research myself .... altho lots of different numbers can be found, the v8 is VERY close to the same weight as a straight 6 engine ... for example, m50 is around 436 lbs and the LQ4 (iron bloc v8) is about 520lbs, m20 is around 400lbs, 2JZ is around 525lbs to 597lbs ... I won't be running A/C or Power Steering so that will shave off a little bit off of the 520lbs ...

I tend to ignore those comments, as I had a volkswagen mk1 caddy with a vr6 ... and it was the same debate, people were saying it ruins the handling, it's heavy, blah blah, but it still handled like a go-kart, and was damn fast for a NA car...

that being said, the weight difference between the m20 and the v8 compared with the power difference of the same two engines (200hp and 400hp) is very not a concern ... if you want to get the m20 to the same power as the v8 you'll have to be turbo + intercooled, which will add weight to that m20 and be pretty damn close to the same weight, but then you have to tune it and you'll end up paying way more for that turbo m20 and still not have the v8 torque ...

I've searched for engine swap for 2 years now ... I've looked at them all, every possible engine you can think of I probably looked into it ! , even a crotch rocket engine... I have a 400hp goal minimum, and I kept in mind the price, the power, the torque, the reliability, etc. and my choice ended on the lq4 for multiple reasons. I almost got a 2jz, I was looking strongly at the m20 and turboing it too, but I just love the reliability of NA power, and the torque of the v8.

as for the weight, I am relocating the battery in the trunk, I am putting the rear subframe of the e28 with medium case diff, I'm really not concerned about handling issues, it's been done over and over with little to no difference or even better handling in some cases ... I can't wait to have it done to see for myself tho

EDIT: yes I have seen some mid engine v8 e30 and the thing looks like it can't even do down a quarter mile in a straight line ... looks so sketchy, in my opinion THAT is ruining the handling of the car

How are you gonna solve the rear end issue? The stock e21 diff and axles won't be able to handle the torque from a v8.

I had written it somewhere in between some of those pictures, I'm doing the same mod as LasVegasCop, taking a rear subframe off the brown e28, cutting and welding the e21 subframe mounts on it, and using the e28 suspentions and rear discs. everything is a bit beefier and should be able to handle a bit a abuse

[lasvegascop]

So here is my scoop.

Thnx for following my E28 rear end swap....Cool beans
On the horsepower issue....
My M20 in my opinion is at or near the comfortable power handling. What I mean by that is, the E21 is so ass light that 400hp being there, you just won't be able to put it to the ground. Im probably making 200-225hp to the ground and if Im not paying attention and step on it, my ass is sliding. If it's raining? I have to be extremely careful or not even drive the car. That's why, mid engine cars are bad ass with unlimited addition of power to rear wheels cause the larger the engine, the more weight pushes the wheels down.
Im a huge fan of swapping in bigger engines, but I Also like to have it drivable.
There was a thread running around, a shop dropped an S series motor in, with I think 6 speed tranny... a few weeks later after the project was completed, the owner put the car for sale...why? Good question, we can male assumptions, mine is that he floored it and almost killed himself? Trust me, I'd do a Turbo on mine but I love it the way it is now.....

As soon as Im done figuring out the issue Im having Im gonna put her on a dyno.... see what she's making Haha got me all curious now!

[HipMF]

there's some real nice cars in that garage ... are they yours ?

nah, just a random pic i grabbed for illustrative purposes. trans-ams aren't really my style.

as for the swap debate, i wonder sometimes if the weight issue is overstated. on the other hand i also wonder what the obsession is with huge power numbers. you don't need 400hp to have fun, and if it makes the car harder to drive then i don't see the point. if people want a burnout/drag race machine, why not buy a muscle car instead of a bmw?

[audioscience10]

Francois don't change your mind like Ive done more than once. Go v8 for sure. A couple things that will make the extra weight either go away or not as big of a deal. Use the lq4 just for mock up and use an aluminum block in the end. Or use the iron block and push the firewall back a few inches. Technically a midengine is any car that has the center of the engine behind the center of the front wheels and in front of the rear, if you an push the engine far enough back you can balance the car decently.

[Tom D]

a V8 powered E21? please note that I have so far managed to refrain from commenting!

[audioscience10]

a V8 powered E21? please note that I have so far managed to refrain from commenting!

I've been waiting for it Tom... ;-)

[ButteDorFrank]

.... the E21 is so ass light that 400hp being there, you just won't be able to put it to the ground...

see, that's what I like to hear ... my plans are to bring it to the track, there's drift practices every thursday ... if it can go sideways on demand in any gear, then I have succeded.

... as for the swap debate, i wonder sometimes if the weight issue is overstated. on the other hand i also wonder what the obsession is with huge power numbers. you don't need 400hp to have fun, and if it makes the car harder to drive then i don't see the point. if people want a burnout/drag race machine, why not buy a muscle car instead of a bmw?

burnout and drag race are exactly for that : muscle car ... cause they suck at anything else...

Francois don't change your mind like Ive done more than once. Go v8 for sure. A couple things that will make the extra weight either go away or not as big of a deal. Use the lq4 just for mock up and use an aluminum block in the end. Or use the iron block and push the firewall back a few inches. Technically a midengine is any car that has the center of the engine behind the center of the front wheels and in front of the rear, if you an push the engine far enough back you can balance the car decently.

I won't change my mind, I already have the lq4, and there's only 93 lbs difference with the ls1 and lq4 so it's not a big deal ...

a V8 powered E21? please note that I have so far managed to refrain from commenting!

everyone already knows your opinion on this ... thanks for not wasting your time replying haha, I know you're in love with the m10 and stock height ... wathever floats your boat ...

I'm putting a roll cage in it, 4 wheel disc, e28 rear end, and v8 engine ... if it can start spinning tires at 100mph in 4th gear I'll be happy ...

serious question:
has none of you seen the 1000hp e21 ? made by JAAS performance .... and the STW drift e21 with a v8 and then with a 2jz ?

here Tom D, I think you really should watch these videos, then you can go back sit in your lifted, body-rolling-m10-powered-e21 and cry.

[HipMF]

a V8 powered E21? please note that I have so far managed to refrain from commenting!

How about a Rover v8?



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