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Thread: Which MC for Massive Brake Booster Delete?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Massive Lee View Post
    Can you take a picture of the MC?

    TIA

    Lee
    Sure, I'll try to get one today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Massive Lee View Post
    Can you take a picture of the MC?

    TIA

    Lee
    Here are the pictures of the MC I bought. Only real catch will be needing to plug the hole on the passenger's side. Guess just a 10MM x 1.0 plug or short screw will do the trick.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #27
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    The two channels for the front brakes are at the rear (near firewall) and the rear brakes are at the front of the MC. Three outlets is optimal when ditching the ABS. If you don't notice any particular step in the MC's body, then most likely it is NOT a stepped MC (23/19), and that's a GOOD thing. Could well be the 19/19 you've been looking for.

    The only way to make sure is to check its part number, or measure the pistons.

    Lee
    Last edited by Massive Lee; 12-07-2014 at 05:12 PM.
    1969 2002 racecar + 1989 e30 M3 racecar


  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Massive Lee View Post
    The two channels for the front brakes are at the rear (near firewall) and the rear brakes are at the front of the MC. Three outlets is optimal when ditching the ABS. If you don't notice any particular step in the MC's body, then most likely it is NOT a stepped MC (23/19), and that's a GOOD thing. Could well be the 19/19 you've been looking for.

    The only way to make sure is to check its part number, or measure the pistons.

    Lee
    Duh! I even marked my ABS controller as such. Hopefully that would have dawned on me when I was working on the system... :-)

    I will see if I can check the piston size without taking it apart and report back. The trouble I had was finding a cross reference between P/N and piston size, but I'll at least provide a subjective feedback when I get the system put together.

  4. #29
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    Have a look at the markings on the bottom of the cylinder. Looks like there might be some numbers there that might represent the bore sizes. Also have a look at pics on ebay. There are several where the differential bore is pretty obvious.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Massive Lee View Post
    The two channels for the front brakes are at the rear (near firewall) and the rear brakes are at the front of the MC. Three outlets is optimal when ditching the ABS. If you don't notice any particular step in the MC's body, then most likely it is NOT a stepped MC (23/19), and that's a GOOD thing. Could well be the 19/19 you've been looking for.

    The only way to make sure is to check its part number, or measure the pistons.

    Lee
    I went back and looked at my ABS controller and there are only 2 channels from the master cylinder. 5 hookups total: 2 from the MC, 2 to the front calipers, 1 line to the back.

    Since this MC is from a non ABS car that explains the 3rd channel, but I don't need it since I'm keeping the ABS. So I guess just plug it?

  6. #31
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    Brake Pedal Mod for Massive MC Delete

    I was looking at the pedal and directions and as far as I can tell the directions want me to remove the tab that sticks off of the pedal. Just want to make sure that's right and I'm not missing something? Anyone happen to have a before and after or a pic of the modified pedal?

    Thanks.

  7. #32
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    I think that tab plunges the travel sensor for the ABS. Take a pic on your own car of what you're talking about.

  8. #33
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    I just picked up the 130.37500 which was thought to be the 19/19 outlets.... but it wound up being stepped. 23/19. Does anyone have a part number for the non-stepped version, 19/19?

  9. #34
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    I'm looking for the 19/19 master cylinder as well. Has any one found a definitive answer on that?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 332i View Post
    I'm looking for the 19/19 master cylinder as well. Has any one found a definitive answer on that?
    Once I get my car out on the track and see how the MC I went with performs I'll report back. It wouldn't be definitive because I'm not sure the size, but at least it will be a qualitative report.

  11. #36
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    I just bought this master cyl # would you think this one wpuld fit?
    ATE #03.2117.3510.3, O.E. #171-611-015S / 171-611-015AF, 17.46mm bore

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/131437685703?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageNa me=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT




    Quote Originally Posted by Massive Lee View Post
    The two channels for the front brakes are at the rear (near firewall) and the rear brakes are at the front of the MC. Three outlets is optimal when ditching the ABS. If you don't notice any particular step in the MC's body, then most likely it is NOT a stepped MC (23/19), and that's a GOOD thing. Could well be the 19/19 you've been looking for.

    The only way to make sure is to check its part number, or measure the pistons.

    Lee
    Last edited by darvo; 03-05-2015 at 09:31 PM.

  12. #37
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    1969 2002 racecar + 1989 e30 M3 racecar


  13. #38
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    Bump!

    I'm trying to use stock calipers and find a 17 or 19 master cylinder. Hopefully one with a res that has the port for the clutch feed.

    Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by protomor View Post
    Bump!

    I'm trying to use stock calipers and find a 17 or 19 master cylinder. Hopefully one with a res that has the port for the clutch feed.
    Most likely you will be searching for a 19mm MC (3/4" in fact).
    Here's an old ebay unit I suggested - VW Dasher or something - http://www.ebay.ca/itm/VW-Volkswagen...526&rmvSB=true

    Don't forget to remove the fixed bias valve to the rear channel if you want maximum rear pressure. ;-)

    The booster delete kit was designed over 6 years ago as a way help engine swappers. Very simple kit, cheap and super compact. An new (larger) kit will be available in the coming weeks for e30, e36 and e46 (three models) for twin master cylinders and balance bar. It will allow to remove the brake booster and easily fit any Tilton, Wilwood, AP, Alcon master cylinders (with piston strokes ranging from 1.1" to 1.5"), giving all the functionality of a race pedal box, but without the higher costs of installation. It is bigger than the older booster delete kits which will continue to be offered. The target "audience" is racers wanting better modulation and "tunability" in their brakes. Pedal ratio is 6:1 and 7:1 allowing people to perhaps start at 7:1, "grow some legs" then move to a more standard 6:1, up to the stock BMW 4:1
    1969 2002 racecar + 1989 e30 M3 racecar


  15. #40
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    Is there a place that's NOT ebay that I can get a 19mm or 17mm master? I don't like being at the whim of some guy or some recycling center. Finding the right sized master (as you can see earlier in the thread) is a crap shoot.

    Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by protomor View Post
    Is there a place that's NOT ebay that I can get a 19mm or 17mm master? I don't like being at the whim of some guy or some recycling center. Finding the right sized master (as you can see earlier in the thread) is a crap shoot.
    Parts yards are an option, but that's really all most of the parts on eBay are. I see you're in the DC Metro area like me. Not many parts yards around so eBay is really your best (only) bet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Massive Lee View Post

    The booster delete kit was designed over 6 years ago as a way help engine swappers. Very simple kit, cheap and super compact. An new (larger) kit will be available in the coming weeks for e30, e36 and e46 (three models) for twin master cylinders and balance bar. It will allow to remove the brake booster and easily fit any Tilton, Wilwood, AP, Alcon master cylinders (with piston strokes ranging from 1.1" to 1.5"), giving all the functionality of a race pedal box, but without the higher costs of installation. It is bigger than the older booster delete kits which will continue to be offered. The target "audience" is racers wanting better modulation and "tunability" in their brakes. Pedal ratio is 6:1 and 7:1 allowing people to perhaps start at 7:1, "grow some legs" then move to a more standard 6:1, up to the stock BMW 4:1
    Interested to see this kit!

  17. #42
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    Apparently I have VW friends lol. I ordered the 11/16" rabbit master. Let's see how this works out.

    Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by protomor View Post
    Apparently I have VW friends lol. I ordered the 11/16" rabbit master. Let's see how this works out.
    If that's a cast aluminum MC, please let me know. I have a 19mm cast iron unit here, but I'm being a weight weenie and trying to trim everything I can out of the weight. I'm changing the MC, so I might as well use the lightest one I can find. I'd use a Honda unit (I know, blasphemy!!!), but the mounting bolt pattern is wrong.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakermac View Post
    If that's a cast aluminum MC, please let me know. I have a 19mm cast iron unit here, but I'm being a weight weenie and trying to trim everything I can out of the weight. I'm changing the MC, so I might as well use the lightest one I can find. I'd use a Honda unit (I know, blasphemy!!!), but the mounting bolt pattern is wrong.
    Well by far the lightest way to go is to adapt a single circuit Wilwood MC of the size of your choice like these guys do:

    http://www.chasebays.com/chase-bays-...-euro-chassis/

    I'm not sure I buy into their assertion that the single circuit master is as safe as an OEM style dual circuit (or dual masters & balance bar),,, but if its no holds barred weight reduction, thats the lightest, simplest way to get it and there is a load of options in sizes and they are cheap as can be. You could buy one of each size and fine tune how you want the pedal to feel for the cost of one BMW 750 25mm Master.
    Thats "if" you feel comfortable having one circuit.
    Last edited by jimmypet; 12-09-2015 at 04:53 PM.
    jimmy p.


    88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - street
    88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - SCCA SPU
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmypet View Post
    Well by far the lightest way to go is to adapt a single circuit Wilwood MC of the size of your choice like these guys do:

    http://www.chasebays.com/chase-bays-...-euro-chassis/

    I'm not sure I buy into their assertion that the single circuit master is as safe as the dual circuit we use,,, but if its no holds barred weight reduction, thats the lightest, simplest way to get it and there is a load of options in sizes and they are cheap as can be. You could buy one of each size and fine tune how you want the pedal to feel for the cost of one BMW 750 25mm Master.
    Thats "if" you feel comfortable having one circuit.
    Jimmy,

    How does a one circuit really differ from a BMW setup? I'm assuming I have this right and a single circuit setup means all the brake fluid ends up back to one spot coming from the MC? So if a line were to break you'd lose all of your fluid (and brake pressure)? But isn't that the same with a standard BMW setup? Or is the fluid internally separated (front and rear) within the MC so that if a front/rear line were to rupture you'd still have fluid and pressure in the remaining half of the system?

  21. #46
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    Yes, around 1967 - 68 all auto mfgs switched to dual circuit master cylinders, in the event of a brake line or wheel cylinder failure the two circuits were isolated from each other so you would have a modicum of braking in reserve if the system is compromised.

    In my opinion that system I linked to just might be the difference between some bent metal and a life flight when compared to a single vs some type of dual system weather its a single dual circuit MC or dual masters with a balance bar. I think their set up is a bad idea myself, but that a choice everyone has to make for themselves.

    I experienced the advantage of the dual circuit master cylinder myself in my 2004 F350 truck,,, as a rear steel brake line rusted out and ruptured.
    With the 2 circuit system I was able to get the truck stopped and get it safely to a parking lot where it could be towed.
    If it was a single circuit I would have had zero braking and would most likely have hit something when the failure occurred.


    On a side note,,, if you own an American pickup truck as a tow vehicle, older than 6-8 years old,,, start looking at your steel brake lines.
    These mfgs use the crappiest metal possible for their brakelines. No coating, no stainless, just crappy steel.

    My buddy who owns a small family service station says a huge part of his business is replacing steel brakelines on American pickup trucks.
    After mine burst and I told him about it, he said there is a non stop stream of trucks in his shop.
    My truck lives a charmed life, it sits on paved surface, never sees any off road or dirt roads, has 50,000 miles on it and it has had two brake line failures from rust.
    We have since replaced all the steel with something better but a vehicles brakes lines should not just rust out at that age and thats what is happening because they use the cheapest materials possible for their brake lines.
    Last edited by jimmypet; 12-09-2015 at 04:51 PM.
    jimmy p.


    88 E30 M3 Zinnoberot - street
    88 E30 M3 Lachsilber - SCCA SPU
    87 E30 M3 Prodrive British Touring Car 2.0 Litre
    04 Ford F350 - V10
    06 Audi A3 Brilliant Red / 2.0 / DSG

  22. #47
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    Thanks for all that Jimmy. It didn't occur to me until you said it that the MC actually separated the fluid in the system, but it makes excellent sense.

    Losing brakes is scary. I actually had a caliper fall off of my street car on my way to work one morning. Luckily I was able to build enough line pressure after the piston fully extended and use the handbrake to get the car slowed, but it was not a nice feeling to have the pedal hit the floor. Glad your truck situation ended without major incident.

  23. #48
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    SCCA Autocross requires a dual circuit system.

    Lee, I'm really liking the looks of your new dual master stuff. How well do you think this would play with the BMW E36 3 channel ABS? What about an upgrade to the E46 M3 Bosch MK60 system?

    Last edited by jakermac; 12-11-2015 at 04:32 PM.

  24. #49
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    Looking at the posts on MC size maybe you need to use a brake bias calculator to get the max braking you desire. I have been using a free calculator online, http://www.jakelatham.com/radical/in...culators.shtml. It really got my M3 really close on MC size for what I'm running for calipers and rotors. Now I have a floor mounted tilton pedal with balance bar, front MC 3/4 rear 13/16 going to brembo front calipers with 44/40mm pistons on a 13" rotor and rear caliper 30/28mm pistons on 12.9" rotor. This calculator will give you brake pressures and bias percentage front and rear. You just plug in the info of what you have and just play around with the numbers till you get what you need.
    1995 BMW M3
    Avus Blue 10/95

  25. #50
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    ^ Wow, cool calculator.

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