E46 330i Automatic - M54B30 Turbo

[PEI330Ci]

Order drums of E85? Smaller exhaust housing?

I've boxed myself into a corner on the alcohol front....the port work in the head uses an epoxy that isn't compatible long term with alcohol. I've been told that short term use, where fuel chases the Water/meth injection isn't an issue...but running something like E85 all the time is going to cause a problem.

Also, drums of E85 cost virtually the same as race fuel where I live, and you use a higher volume. It makes more sense just to use 114 Octane race fuel....

[someguy2800]

Yeah no sense in using it if there is no savings. What epoxy is in the head? Splash zone? I have epoxy in my head. I read something Darren Morgan from Rehr Morrison wrote about using epoxy with methanol and ethanol. He said to coat the epoxy with an acrylic clear coat paint to act as a barrier. I did this on mine and every couple years I pull the manifold to check it. The clear coat does not come off and every time I check it I clean it up with acetone and put another coat on with an acid brush. Not suggesting you do it, but thought you would find it interesting.

[PEI330Ci]

Yeah no sense in using it if there is no savings. What epoxy is in the head? Splash zone? I have epoxy in my head. I read something Darren Morgan from Rehr Morrison wrote about using epoxy with methanol and ethanol. He said to coat the epoxy with an acrylic clear coat paint to act as a barrier. I did this on mine and every couple years I pull the manifold to check it. The clear coat does not come off and every time I check it I clean it up with acetone and put another coat on with an acid brush. Not suggesting you do it, but thought you would find it interesting.

Small world.

Erland Cox ported my 2 heads.

I think you read that on Speed Talk in the Advanced Tech forum....there was discussion between Erland and Darren.

Let me see if I can find it....this was back in 2010 or 2011...

[someguy2800]

That sounds right, I believe it was on speed talk.

[ColtonBH]

Makes me feel lucky to live in the land of corn, e85 is $1.89/gal. Not that I have anything that runs on it

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[Nutzy]

Instead of using methanol to spray, is ethanol an option? I know its latent heat is not as favorable as methanol, but 50/50 water/eth is still a good thing. Are you certain that ethanol will attack that epoxy? Being 50/50 it will be less aggressive, and ethanol isn't aggressive in any case, despite the waffle that parades around the internetz. Test a sample of it on some alloy and soak it in a mix.

**Gates hose rate E10 unleaded more chemically aggressive than E85, FWIW. They say their Buna-N hose is OK for E85, but of course forget methanol!

[Butters Stoch]

I couldn't imagine pulling an engine to change compression for the minimal gains out of boost.

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[Def]

In my experience, optimizing cam timing yields probably 10-20x the improvement of adding a reasonable (~1-2 full points) of compression can yield in "bottom end" performance. With sub optimal cam timing for down low operation, which you typically run into with larger cams no matter how much valve timing adjustment you've got, you're going to have a soft low end torque and the engine is going to be lazy tipping into boost.

[PEI330Ci]

Instead of using methanol to spray, is ethanol an option? I know its latent heat is not as favorable as methanol, but 50/50 water/eth is still a good thing. Are you certain that ethanol will attack that epoxy? Being 50/50 it will be less aggressive, and ethanol isn't aggressive in any case, despite the waffle that parades around the internetz. Test a sample of it on some alloy and soak it in a mix.

**Gates hose rate E10 unleaded more chemically aggressive than E85, FWIW. They say their Buna-N hose is OK for E85, but of course forget methanol!

My whole fuel system is setup for gasoline. I would need to change everything for "E" of any kind. The reason why I have a non-"E" fuel system, is that you can't buy it where I live, and this was primarily built a street toy. The last time I checked, the nearest gas station that stocked E85 was almost 2000km away from me....

Buying E85 by the drum through race shops is an option, but the price works out really close to 114 octane race fuel when you consider the volume consumed of each.

I couldn't imagine pulling an engine to change compression for the minimal gains out of boost.

I've pulled my engine so many times, I almost think of it like "normal" people look at changing wheels. It gets me pissed off every time though....as I seem to forget how many details in involves...which takes up a lot of time and energy.

I am looking to upgrade the rods for more power.....so the piston swap would be part of that process.

In my experience, optimizing cam timing yields probably 10-20x the improvement of adding a reasonable (~1-2 full points) of compression can yield in "bottom end" performance. With sub optimal cam timing for down low operation, which you typically run into with larger cams no matter how much valve timing adjustment you've got, you're going to have a soft low end torque and the engine is going to be lazy tipping into boost.

Thanks for the info.

I can't really show exactly what I've done without a dyno, but I've got 30 degrees of motion on the inlet cam to help with spool. Who knows if it helps much tough....as you say...the cam profile might have me stuck.

[Def]

If the fuel you're using can take it, no reason not to up the compression. I just wouldn't expect miracles down low if you've got some really big cams.

One thing I would watch for, I've seen some reports of some people having trouble with a lot of piston mfg high comp pistons in an E85 turbo build. The crowns are usually thin, which works on an NA build, but won't last long on a high power FI engine. It seems to be hit or miss, and depends on the forging blank used and the crown and valve relief design. Might be worth calling the piston mfg you want to use and chatting with them, or making sure they're rated for turbo usage.

[Nutzy]

I was only suggesting that you use pump gas plus spray 50/50 water/ethanol. But it's a shame you can't get E85.

[PEI330Ci]

If the fuel you're using can take it, no reason not to up the compression. I just wouldn't expect miracles down low if you've got some really big cams.

One thing I would watch for, I've seen some reports of some people having trouble with a lot of piston mfg high comp pistons in an E85 turbo build. The crowns are usually thin, which works on an NA build, but won't last long on a high power FI engine. It seems to be hit or miss, and depends on the forging blank used and the crown and valve relief design. Might be worth calling the piston mfg you want to use and chatting with them, or making sure they're rated for turbo usage.

That is a really good point, and one that I considered when having the 2 sets of 11:1 pistons custom made for me back in 2010. I told them I wanted to make 200hp per cylinder with boost and nitrous. The ring pack, ring lands, crown thickness, box section, and wrist pin are all based on this goal.











I've since contacted my cylinder head guy, and he said he's got a customer running 11:1 on a 2.8L Volvo with LESS efficient head than mine making over 1300rwhp on Methanol. So if I'm brave enough....that might be my long term goal....

My ports are very different from what I've seen done to most other BMW cylinder heads:

I was only suggesting that you use pump gas plus spray 50/50 water/ethanol. But it's a shame you can't get E85.

I understood. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Def]

What's the floor of the port look like? Maybe he got aggressive with the filler there too (good thing).

That's usually the limit on most production heads since they drop the intake port entry for better packaging, but it leads to too sharp of a short side radius on the floor going into the valve for really high flow numbers.

[someguy2800]

Based on the color and texture I'm almost certain that epoxy is A-788 Splash Zone, which is the same epoxy I have in my head coated with acrylic clear coat.

[dburt86]

Sometimes i wish i was smarter

[PEI330Ci]

What's the floor of the port look like? Maybe he got aggressive with the filler there too (good thing).

That's usually the limit on most production heads since they drop the intake port entry for better packaging, but it leads to too sharp of a short side radius on the floor going into the valve for really high flow numbers.

The floor is really hard to take a picture of....but he shapes the port with math.

Based on the color and texture I'm almost certain that epoxy is A-788 Splash Zone, which is the same epoxy I have in my head coated with acrylic clear coat.

What acrylic clear coat did you use?

I'm considering the switch to 100% Methanol....

Sometimes i wish i was smarter

Huh?

[someguy2800]

What acrylic clear coat did you use?

Some old can of spray can auto clear coat. I spray an ounce or so of it into a cap and paint it on with an acid brush.

I'm considering the switch to 100% Methanol....

That sounds like misery. I would research that carefully.

[AlexQuattro]

Considering putting in 11:1 pistons I have on the shelf....instead of running the 8.5:1 setup currently in the block. Would require a race fuel mix with pump fuel all the time....and 100% race fuel with nitrous at the track.

I say go for it.

My only concern is that your range would be drastically reduced unless you carried race fuel with you, definitely not ideal for road trips, but clearly that doesn't seem to be your inteded use for the car anymore.

At the beginning of this project, you were aiming for 500 whp. What's your goal now? What's the record for the M54B30, 800 whp?

[pbonsalb]

Don't the methanol motor drag cars need to be rebuilt frequently because it's so corrosive?

There was a guy active here a couple of years ago who ran on gas at low boost and switched over to methanol at high boost and said he had been doing it for a while with no problems. Don't recall the details but it was a relatively low buck simple system as I recall - not what the OP would do but the longer term methanol experience or dual fuel concept might be interesting.

[PEI330Ci]

I would like to make 1000chp.

The current record is 800whp...but the owner of that car passed away last month....

On a completely different topic....

Starting to consider that wheel hop might be partially caused by the back of my car being too low and too soft. ----wheels getting sucked upwards under traction, spinning, then falling back down until re-gripping, and repeating the cycle.

[PEI330Ci]

Well it finally happened....

Photobucket is strong-arming me into choosing the $400 yearly plan to continue to be able to host images for forum use.

Prepare for all of my images to disappear...

[IanJ]

Well it finally happened....

Photobucket is strong-arming me into choosing the $400 yearly plan to continue to be able to host images for forum use.

Prepare for all of my images to disappear...

Just put them on imgur and opt to not post publicly.

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[PEI330Ci]

Just put them on imgur and opt to not post publicly.

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Thanks for the suggestion.

The problem is that I have over 5,000 actively linked photos on Photobucket.

PEI330Ci threads are about to go dark...

[s13flyboy]

Noooo! Your threads are so well done and informative. What a shame... Damn photobucket.

Gofundme?

[Def]

Just put them on imgur and opt to not post publicly.

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Imgur blocks BF.c.